[Eug]

Interesting. I was wondering when this was going to happen.

---

I'll give you guys the **BIG NEWS** that was announced yesterday at Apple's Shake Users' Event in San Diego.

First, Pixar announced that they're bringing prMan over to OS X and will have a beta sometime in August or September.

Second, Pixar announced that they'll be migrating over to... guess what... the Mac!

They based their decision on issues such as performance, code portability, X11 integration, development culture, vender dedication to the fim industry, app availability, audio/video friendlyness and capabilities.

In 1980 Pixar made its first short on a Vax running VMS. Then in the mid '80s they migrated over to Sun workstations running Solaris. In the late '80s - '90s they were running entirely SGI Irix workstations, and in 2000 they moved over to Intels running Linux. An NT migration would've meant exiting the Unix market. But apparantly they were also having issues with Linux such as universal cut & paste, issues synching sound with picture, I think he said color management and other problems. He (a Pixar VP) said that while none of the issues were show stoppers or significant on their own, and they could all be dealt with or worked around, taken as a whole they presented real problems for the company.

Moving to OS X let's them essentially recompile the core functionality of their entire code base without even bothering with higher level UI development. Once they're settled in, then they could port the UI from X to Aqua.

During his slide show, the Pixar VP of something was about to present a list of why they'll be switiching to the Mac. But RIGHT at that time Keynote crashed out, drawing sarcastic applause from the audience. The timing just couldn't be worse. I think it may have been some kind of data corruption in one of the elements in the frame that crashed Keynote if you went BACK to the page from the next page. So from then on the presenters made sure not to go BACK to that particular frame.

Then a Hollywood-based motion design studio called Yu+Co showed their reel and the type of work they do on Shake. Their projects included The Hulk, Italian Job, X-Men2, and many others.

Then another company whose name I don't remember showed some shots of the sequel to Starship Troopers. This particular demonstration of Shake's expansion capabilities was quite impressive. They exported footage from Maya maintaining all the "DOD" data (if anyone knows what this is, let me know... a buncha visual fx artists from work had no idea today) when they used in Shake to create 3D ambient & spot lights. The guy, who had previously used Shake only on a dual AMD box, created a light which he could position anywhere in the scene, including in front, behind, or within the insect. The light behaved just as it would in a 3D environment! He had control over its color temperature, spread, intensity, diffussness, etc... it was quite impressive. He even made a little comment "I've only used this on my dual AMD, this is the first time I've used Shake on a Mac and it's quick [as he's moving the light around the insect]. Yes, my box doesn't do it nearly this fast."

---

Assuming this is true, I'd expect it to mean that most of the workstations are going to go OS X, and they'll continue to do all their rendering on the Xeon blade farm (for obvious reasons). Anyone else attend the event? I haven't seen a press release on either the Pixar or the Apple websites.

EDIT: Italics removed.

[iWrite]

I'm not so sure I believe it, to be honest. Jobs just spent like $100 million turning the Pixar rendering farm over to PCs so I don't see how it's possible.

Of course, anything is possible, but I highly doubt that it's going to happen. It might just be a public embracement of Mac OS X because Apple does seem to be hypocritical when it pronounces Mac OS X the best OS in the world...yet they use a different OS in their business environment.

Also, apparently Jobs has a Dell on his desk alongside his G4 tower.

Who knows? All I know is that Pixar is going gangbbusters: Nemo has netted like $350 million dollars so far and is still going strong and analysts say it will go on to become the #1 animation film of all time.

It's an awesome movie, no doubt about it. Nemo and Monsters, Inc. are two of the finest films out there, animated or not.

[Lerkfish]

completely off topic, but huge blocks of type in italics is downright painful to read.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
completely off topic, but huge blocks of type in italics is downright painful to read.

the Lerk-Friendly version

I'll give you guys the **BIG NEWS** that was announced yesterday at Apple's Shake Users' Event in San Diego.

First, Pixar announced that they're bringing prMan over to OS X and will have a beta sometime in August or September.

Second, Pixar announced that they'll be migrating over to... guess what... the Mac!

They based their decision on issues such as performance, code portability, X11 integration, development culture, vender dedication to the fim industry, app availability, audio/video friendlyness and capabilities.

In 1980 Pixar made its first short on a Vax running VMS. Then in the mid '80s they migrated over to Sun workstations running Solaris. In the late '80s - '90s they were running entirely SGI Irix workstations, and in 2000 they moved over to Intels running Linux. An NT migration would've meant exiting the Unix market. But apparantly they were also having issues with Linux such as universal cut & paste, issues synching sound with picture, I think he said color management and other problems. He (a Pixar VP) said that while none of the issues were show stoppers or significant on their own, and they could all be dealt with or worked around, taken as a whole they presented real problems for the company.

Moving to OS X let's them essentially recompile the core functionality of their entire code base without even bothering with higher level UI development. Once they're settled in, then they could port the UI from X to Aqua.

During his slide show, the Pixar VP of something was about to present a list of why they'll be switiching to the Mac. But RIGHT at that time Keynote crashed out, drawing sarcastic applause from the audience. The timing just couldn't be worse. I think it may have been some kind of data corruption in one of the elements in the frame that crashed Keynote if you went BACK to the page from the next page. So from then on the presenters made sure not to go BACK to that particular frame.

Then a Hollywood-based motion design studio called Yu+Co showed their reel and the type of work they do on Shake. Their projects included The Hulk, Italian Job, X-Men2, and many others.

Then another company whose name I don't remember showed some shots of the sequel to Starship Troopers. This particular demonstration of Shake's expansion capabilities was quite impressive. They exported footage from Maya maintaining all the "DOD" data (if anyone knows what this is, let me know... a buncha visual fx artists from work had no idea today) when they used in Shake to create 3D ambient & spot lights. The guy, who had previously used Shake only on a dual AMD box, created a light which he could position anywhere in the scene, including in front, behind, or within the insect. The light behaved just as it would in a 3D environment! He had control over its color temperature, spread, intensity, diffussness, etc... it was quite impressive. He even made a little comment "I've only used this on my dual AMD, this is the first time I've used Shake on a Mac and it's quick [as he's moving the light around the insect]. Yes, my box doesn't do it nearly this fast." [/B]

[wdlove]

It would seem that if Pixar is earning $350m net from "Finding Nemo" then they have the cash to make the switch. Just makes sense that with the G5 Being the fastest computer in the world, the time to switch is now!

[iWrite]

They didn't make $350 million. They sold it to Disney. They get like 40% of the earnings. Disney distributed and marketed it. They owe Disney two more films also, one in 2004 and one is 2005. Then they're off the hook.

Thanks for fixing the italics, BTW. Hurt my head to see that.

[Eug]

Originally posted by iWrite:
I'm not so sure I believe it, to be honest. Jobs just spent like $100 million turning the Pixar rendering farm over to PCs so I don't see how it's possible.

Of course, anything is possible, but I highly doubt that it's going to happen. It might just be a public embracement of Mac OS X because Apple does seem to be hypocritical when it pronounces Mac OS X the best OS in the world...yet they use a different OS in their business environment.

I already addressed this in my post. Likely what it means (if true) is that the workstations would be G5s, NOT the render farm. In fact, it's likely the render farm doesn't even run a UI at all, so that VP's statements would not make sense if he were talking about the render farm.

BTW, the farm was not anywhere close to 100 million, but indeed it was still a significant chunk of money. It would be absurd to update a near-top-of-the-line Xeon blade server render farm. Not to mention the fact that a comparative G5-based line doesn't even exist. If IBM's blade servers had existed back back then, it is possible they may have chosen those. But it would still probably be running Linux because it'd be IBM hardware, and I don't think Apple is going to get into this part of the blade server market any time soon.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by iWrite:
Also, apparently Jobs has a Dell on his desk alongside his G4 tower.

the rumors also say that it is running nextstep... and i am guessing that is a g5 now

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by iWrite:
They didn't make $350 million. They sold it to Disney. They get like 40% of the earnings. Disney distributed and marketed it. They owe Disney two more films also, one in 2004 and one is 2005. Then they're off the hook.

Thanks for fixing the italics, BTW. Hurt my head to see that.

they dont sell the movies to disney... and they get 50% of the box office and merchandise minus distribution costs... Monsters, Inc grossed over a billion with box and merchandise combined

[Superchicken]

Who said they're running OS X on PPC
hahaha

Anyway it's probably the people working in the flicks will use Macs.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Who said they're running OS X on PPC
hahaha

Anyway it's probably the people working in the flicks will use Macs.

Huh?

[version]

They aren't switching wholesale to the Mac, or X, it's a statement of embracement. ILM did the same thing for years when Alias/Wavefront put a clause into the license terms of ILm using their software. They basically had to say that everything was done using Alias when they were discussing the making of projects, but in reality, they had to rely on vast amounts of different software, hardware.

Pixar can't go down the X route entirely, practicality being one of them.

[Eug]

Originally posted by version:
They aren't switching wholesale to the Mac, or X, it's a statement of embracement. ILM did the same thing for years when Alias/Wavefront put a clause into the license terms of ILm using their software. They basically had to say that everything was done using Alias when they were discussing the making of projects, but in reality, they had to rely on vast amounts of different software, hardware.

Pixar can't go down the X route entirely, practicality being one of them.

That makes sense to me.

I figure they'd keep all of their newer fast hardware around, but may focus more future purchases for the time being on G5 workstations. I'm sure it is also dependent partially on the individuals/departments.

Now what I wonder about is if ATI will be releasing Mac FireGLs soon. How necessary are these for Pixar?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I thought they just dumped a ton of money in getting rid of the sun workstations and moving over to Intel with Linux?

[Eug]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I thought they just dumped a ton of money in getting rid of the sun workstations and moving over to Intel with Linux?

Yeah, I dunno how many Linux workstations they have, but I haven't seen a press release saying they did a huge update of all their several hundred SGI boxes or anything. Maybe Teh Steve� told them to hold off until 2003 because of the G5 and they were just doing scattered updates to Linux boxes. (Pure conjecture.)

Or perhaps you're talking about the render farm. If so, see above for my various posts about it. The render farm IS all Xeon, and will stay that way for the foreseeable future.

[Eug]

Kaydara Inc. announces that Mac OS X will be the only Unix version supported by Motionbuilder 5.

Apple's Richard Kerris Talks About Siggraph and 3D on the Mac.

[biscuit]

There was a similar discussion to this a while ago. An interesting point made then was that Pixar upgrade and/or buy new kit based around what they're doing at the time. They bought a big load of Xeons to render Finding Nemo and they'll keep them. But the next project is bound to be bigger and better so maybe they'll get a whole bunch of new stuff for that. Maybe some of that stuff will be Macs.

The point is that they need the best they can get at any given moment, and an investment may only extend as far as the project it was bought for. For the next one they may reconsider their options.

Does that make sense? It does sort of imply that they renew their render-farm with every film, something I doubt actually happens. I think they're open to Macs basically, and the G5 makes Macs a valid consideration performance wise.

biscuit

[version]

They won't be in a hurry to get rid of their SGI's, currently, they are still the best systems for compositing. Pixar do a lot of in-house composites, edits, etc. and SGI is still the better platform for high-def, and film rez images. It's the same with most large post-production houses.
What does happen in this industry, is the allegiance of one platform, over the other, mainly due to allegiance, vendor demands, and visibility.
What is going on in Pixar, is the introduction of G5 workstations into the mix, which is really good thing, I'm pretty chuffed that Apple are now about to produce workstations, instead of big-box computers. By them focusing on the internal bus, it will bring about a lot of interest from the higher end creative software companies.

Eug, I'd love to see ATi get FireGL drivers out for OS X, I've been using Firegl cards in my PC for years, it's just another world for 3d animation when using them.

[Eug]

Originally posted by biscuit:
There was a similar discussion to this a while ago. An interesting point made then was that Pixar upgrade and/or buy new kit based around what they're doing at the time. They bought a big load of Xeons to render Finding Nemo and they'll keep them. But the next project is bound to be bigger and better so maybe they'll get a whole bunch of new stuff for that. Maybe some of that stuff will be Macs.

The point is that they need the best they can get at any given moment, and an investment may only extend as far as the project it was bought for. For the next one they may reconsider their options.

Does that make sense? It does sort of imply that they renew their render-farm with every film, something I doubt actually happens. I think they're open to Macs basically, and the G5 makes Macs a valid consideration performance wise.

Like I said before, it would make little sense to switch to Macs for the render farm.

1) The G4 Xserve is too slow and costs too much.
2) The Xeon blade farm is near top-of-the-line. Scrapping them in favour of G5s would be a huge waste of money, for little speed benefit..
3) IBM PPC970 blade servers don't exist yet either, and they'd be running Linux anyway.
4) Running a render farm of full-fledged Power Macs would be a complete waste of money even if Pixar got a killer deal from Apple. Plus it would waste a lot of space, even if they were rackmountable (which they aren't).
5) The G5 Xserve (if it existed) would still cost too much, since it's not meant to compete in the ultra-stripped down blade server market.
6) Mac G5 blade servers (which don't exist either and which probably won't in the foreseeable future), wouldn't be running Mac OS X either. Darwin yes, but running Mac OS X Aqua would simply waste precious CPU cycles, for no good reason.

Workstations on Mac OS X makes sense. Render farm on Mac OS X does not.

[version]

Originally posted by Eug:
Like I said before, it would make little sense to switch to Macs for the render farm.

1) The G4 Xserve is too slow and costs too much.
2) The Xeon blade farm is near top-of-the-line.
3) IBM PPC970 blade servers don't exist yet either, and they'd be running Linux anyway.
4) Running a render farm of full-fledged Power Macs would be a complete waste of money even if Pixar got a killer deal from Apple. Plus it waste a LOT of space, even they were rackmountable (which they aren't).
5) The G5 Xserve (if it existed) would still cost too much, since it's not meant to compete in the ultra-stripped down blade server market.
6) Mac G5 blade servers (which don't exist either and which probably won't in the foreseeable future), wouldn't be running Mac OS X either. Darwin yes, but running Mac OS X Aqua would simply waste precious CPU cycles, for no good reason.

Workstations on Mac OS X makes sense. Render farm on Mac OS X does not.

yeah, completely agree wit hyou there. There's absolutely no gain in using G5's, or Mac for rendering. The perhaps slightly improved render times, is utterly offset by the huge cost difference between Mac, and anything else. It's sometimes even cheaper to go down the SGI server route, thatn using Mac.
Rendering in these companies will still be on Linux, windows, Irix for quite some time.

[biscuit]

Originally posted by Eug:
Workstations on Mac OS X makes sense. Render farm on Mac OS X does not.

OK, I'm convinced.

Just thought I'd add that idea into the mix though....

biscuit

[wvx]

Interesting.

http://www.pixar.com/companyinfo/jobs/openings.html

[Eug]

Originally posted by wvx:
Interesting.

http://www.pixar.com/companyinfo/jobs/openings.html

Very interesting indeed. Job opening: Mac OS X Migration Contractor - Systems

Responsibilities
Perform Mac hardware and OS upgrades, utilizing proprietary disk imaging and software upgrade tools

Required Qualifications
Two years of related experience.
Ability to troubleshoot Mac software problems, including problems with the operating system (OS9 and OSX), applications, drivers, etc.
Ability to troubleshoot Mac hardware problems, including problems with workstations, servers, and peripherals
Ability to troubleshoot Mac connectivity issues
Familiarity with a majority of the following: POP and IMAP clients, Web browsers, Photoshop, Illustrator, Final Cut Pro, FileMaker, Microsoft Office, Meeting Maker, Now Contact, Final Draft, Timbuktu
Organizational skills and strong attention to detail
Experience supporting end users, including all levels of management
Ability to prioritize and address multiple tasks in a dynamic work environment
Ability to prioritize and address multiple tasks and projects in a dynamic work environment.
Ability to work independently and with other members of a team
Proven oral and written communication skills
Ability to move computer equipment, including CPUs, monitors, etc.

[faragbre967]

Completely off topic, but:

Originally posted by Eug:
Then another company whose name I don't remember showed some shots of the sequel to Starship Troopers.[/B]

They're making a sequel to Starship Troopers? That movie was awful.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by faragbre967:
Completely off topic, but:



They're making a sequel to Starship Troopers? That movie was awful.

The book was awful too.

[Eug]

Starship Troopers was good if you didn't take it seriously - it a funny satire. Dunno if it was supposed to be that way though.

Anyways, it seems the info on the net is unclear as to what Pixar currrently uses for workstations. Some say still SGI workstations, and other say they have migrated quite a bit of their work to Linux on x86 (and I'm ignoring the render farm for the moment). Plus there are Macs for 2D work, etc.

I wonder how quickly they plan to add dual G5s.

[d0ubled0wn]

If Pixar does a mass migration to OS X, Jobs should do a switch commercial.

Check out a "Helpful Qualification" for the MacOS X Systems Administrator position:

"Experience navigating and controlling real-time 3D environments such as Quake and Unreal."

[Eug]

Originally posted by hayesk:
Check out a "Helpful Qualification" for the MacOS X Systems Administrator position:

"Experience navigating and controlling real-time 3D environments such as Quake and Unreal."

Heh, I know a number of Unix geeks who would fit the bill.

[Superchicken]

haha yeah or better yet Dorry!

Have dorry do a switch add!

[Link]

Don't these crazy people understand yet? If you want a sucessful business you have to have nothing but Dells running windows 2000.
.... with 2 licenses for each machine for every program and 8 licenses for each server.

Not to mention they have to be wasting taxpayer's money for this!

HOW LAME!

[MindFad]

Originally posted by Link:
Don't these crazy people understand yet? If you want a sucessful business you have to have nothing but Dells running windows 2000.
.... with 2 licenses for each machine for every program and 8 licenses for each server.

Not to mention they have to be wasting taxpayer's money for this!

HOW LAME!

Hey, HEY, you forgot sarcasm tags. Am I the only one around here who gives a **** about the rules!?

[Dogma]

Yippee! Well, maybe just "Good".

This is quite a nice thing to have, because if all goes well and good (as it never does) then this kinda move and general feedback from the people who actually do this kind of work (I owulda left out that Hulk people though - I mean, talk about killing your case...) then developers and users may sit up and say "Is the Mac really so good that Pixar are using it?" - "Can I do my own Finding Nemo now?"

Which is cool.

And albeit I dislike the program - it would be an event like no other if Studio Max was ported to compete on the burgeoning 3D platform of choice. (Think about, Maya, RenderPixarWhatever, Lightwave, and Studio Max? Bring it on!)

And that's just the 3D stuff.

I like the way Apple are going with this. Microsoft are giving it all "Integration/ease of use/ fancypants software " whereas Apple are going "Integration / Professional tools / Professional results"

Could be time for Apple to dust of its Artistic Joker card again...

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Eug:
Starship Troopers was good if you didn't take it seriously - it a funny satire. Dunno if it was supposed to be that way though.

Oh, absolutely!

It was intended as much as a political/military satire as also a spoof on B-Movies - right down to utilizing the most tired and worn-out clich�ed lines. The dialogue occasionally sounding like Episode II? - That's intentional (unlike Episode II).

If you think Starship Troopers was "awful", it went completely over your head. Which is okay - satire is not for everyone.

I just happen to really dig it.

-s*

[Link]

Originally posted by MindFad:
Hey, HEY, you forgot sarcasm tags. Am I the only one around here who gives a **** about the rules!?

Nah.. the satire in the line about the 2 licenses should have been good enough

Then again the school I used to go to bought like 300 dells WITH windows me licenses 'to save money'

Then they turned around and bought windows 2000 licenses too.. in all it cost them $300 a machine but they still said it was cheaper then if dell gave them windows 2000 in the first place.

[Superchicken]

Star Ship Troopers was satire? I wouldn't know about that... lit yes, but satire? It didn't go over my head, just bored me. I was reading it after wasting my time when I was supposed to read a lit book then write an essay, anyway so I read Animal Farm instead haha, then I got the question for the essay, write about the main Character's internal conflict... I was like... I READ ANIMAL FARM! So I wrote like 150 words for a 1000 word essay which was essentially sorry there was no inner conflict in animal farm. Another girl wrote an essay on it... I dono how but she got like a sixty or something, I got like 5% hahaha it was awful, hence it brought my lit mark down a lot.

[Avenir]

Originally posted by Eug:
Very interesting indeed. Job opening: Mac OS X Migration Contractor - Systems

Responsibilities...

The fact that I am completely (or almost completely) qualified for that job, yet am studying something very unrelated, proves once again that I am in the wrong major

[dlefebvre]

Production houses like Pixar, ILM, Digital Domain, Dreamworks and all, cannot change platform overnight. Each of those houses have a unique production pipeline, using in-house custom built applications and softwares. They use common pro apps like Maya and Shake, but they have custom scripts, plug-ins and renderer usually programmed in house. So changing OS is a little more complicated than it looks. They have to modify their already primed pipeline and rewrite most of their tools. When Pixar bought all those Linux servers it made sense, especially with a movie to deliver.
Considering that you change hardware every 2 or 3 years, the G5 server will be ready and so will be the tools to make the most of it.

[gorgonzola]

I am still highly skeptical about those rumors about Jobs having a Dell and a PowerMac on his desk, or running NeXTSTEP, or any of that. I am highly skeptical that he uses a computer at all. What possible use could he have for it?

I imagine that he barely uses the computers for actual work, and generally dictates letters or memos or emails to a secretary or something of the sort. What the hell is Jobs doing with a Dell *or* a PowerMac? Making iMovies? Making his own Keynote presentation? Downloading MP3s with KaZaA and playing CounterStrike on the Dell (since after all, they are only really good for KaZaA and gaming)?

No way. I'm unconvinced he has one computer, let alone two.

[Link]

well maybe steve jobs really IS a "pirate of silicon valley"

That'd be (*@#$#$ing hilarious

[Superchicken]

I bet Steve just uses an orignal iBook