[slow moe]

Originally posted by shmerek:
WTF? Plenty of money to waste? That money you are intent on wasting is going to be money from the sale of Iraq oil. Bidding wars by tribes is that what you call Iraqi industry?

No, I call Iraqi industry in shambles, and in need of rebuilding to bring it up to a level needed to sustain a new legitimate government.

Bremer has said rebuilding Iraq will cost 50 - 100 billion dollars. Will there be waste, sure there will, but that's how bad Iraq was run down.

btw/ lay off the 'oil' argument. That is getting soooo old.

[shmerek]

Originally posted by slow moe:
No, I call Iraqi industry in shambles, and in need of rebuilding to bring it up to a level needed to sustain a new legitimate government.

Bremer has said rebuilding Iraq will cost 50 - 100 billion dollars. Will there be waste, sure there will, but that's how bad Iraq was run down.

btw/ lay off the 'oil' argument. That is getting soooo old.

Lay off the oil argument what is that supposed to mean? I posed no argument do you think that the US is going to foot the bill for this whole thing? No they are going to use oil revenue. Sorry but it ain't old.

And contrary to what you believe the guy in the article has stated that Iraq is capable of rebuilding in this "shambles". **** they did it in the first Gulf war without any outside help and you are telling me they are not capable now? You know not of what you speak.

By the way Iraqi infrastructure (electrical/water) was working just fine prior to the war I guess if you want to call being bombed "run down" it was

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by shmerek:
Do some of you people think that iraqis are a bunch of uneducated dipshits??? Prior to to the sanctions Iraq had one of the best education/health system in the region, they are not stupid any fully capable of doing what is necessary.

The arrogance of some posters assuming they are incapable is disgusting. What makes you believe this, because there was a dictator or because they are muslim or because only america has expertise? I don't get it what is the logic?

Interesting to watch, isn't it?

[slow moe]

Originally posted by shmerek:
Lay off the oil argument what is that supposed to mean? I posed no argument do you think that the US is going to foot the bill for this whole thing? No they are going to use oil revenue. Sorry but it ain't old.

http://forums.macnn.com/search.php?s...der=descending

It's littered with the topic

And contrary to what you believe the guy in the article has stated that Iraq is capable of rebuilding in this "shambles". **** they did it in the first Gulf war without any outside help and you are telling me they are not capable now? You know not of what you speak.

I never said the Iraqi's aren't capable, and I'm not going to repeat myself again. What I will say is that what Saddam rebuilt after the '91 Gulf War was what he needed, and not a whole lot more. Pointing to an article, and saying "See, see they don't need Haliburton or Bechtel" doesn't fit in at all with Iraq's current situation because, unlike in '91, they now have a real future with the world to prepare for.

By the way Iraqi infrastructure (electrical/water) was working just fine prior to the war I guess if you want to call being bombed "run down" it was

Don't be so naive, there's more electricity and water now than before the war started, but yeah, we bombed everything we could. It was fun watching it on TV, all the pretty fireworks, and th...whatever.

Shmerek, you're completely ignoring the fact that there is a new governing body being formed in Iraq. That government will be providing some services to the people that never even existed under Saddam, and they will certainly be expanding some other services that did exists. The country will be growing and developing much faster than before, and because of that, the new government needs their infrastructure strengthened well beyond what Iraq has today, and all of that has to happen quickly as there are timetables envolved in the transition to that new government.

[eklipse]

If find it interesting that the pro-war crowd (that were so terrified by the threat Iraq posed or could pose to them that invasion and occupation was the only way forward) are now the ones saying that it's industry is in shambles, the citizens are uneducated incompetents with poor health and the country is devoid of any personnel and firms capable of managing large projects.

How exactly do they think that an Iraq in this sort of condition was a potential threat to the US and world peace?

The hypocrisy seems to be breaking down, no?

[lemondrop]

Originally posted by eklipse:
If find it interesting that the pro-war crowd (that were so terrified by the threat Iraq posed or could pose to them that invasion and occupation was the only way forward) are now the ones saying that it's industry is in shambles, the citizens are uneducated incompetents with poor health and the country is devoid of any personnel and firms capable of managing large projects.

How exactly do they think that an Iraq in this sort of condition was a potential threat to the US and world peace?

The hypocrisy seems to be breaking down, no?

Look at what Afganistan did. 3,000 body bags. They are a prosporius nation now. No attacks from them now. We did our job.

To be serious: Spend the 4 bil. a month on health care for our own people. Buy the pills for the WW2 vets so they don't have to cut the **** in half. We can save a lot more lives buy paying for drugs for our elderly. Oh, the elderly don't make up as much of the voters as the afraid Americans.

P.S: I'm American. For a few more months

[shmerek]

Originally posted by slow moe:
http://forums.macnn.com/search.php?s...der=descending

It's littered with the topic

And that link means....? You never answered any of the questions?

I never said the Iraqi's aren't capable, and I'm not going to repeat myself again. What I will say is that what Saddam rebuilt after the '91 Gulf War was what he needed, and not a whole lot more. Pointing to an article, and saying "See, see they don't need Haliburton or Bechtel" doesn't fit in at all with Iraq's current situation because, unlike in '91, they now have a real future with the world to prepare for.

No you made a sarcastic post

I'm sure there are plenty of privately owned electrical, mechanical, road, oil, telecom, etc. contractors in Iraq. They were all probably doing pretty good there under Saddam, seeing how he was a nice guy, firmly believed in free enterprise, and private ownership and all. I'm sure they are all experienced in knowing how to properly bid a job - no one ever loses money, goes over, or is corrupt there either. Heck, I bet you could pick up any phonebook in Iraq, from Mosul down to Basra, and it would be packed with contractors. I even bet the the banks in Iraq are familiar with the construction loan process too, and would have the necessary funds to bankroll these contractors and their manpower. Yeah, it sounds like a good idea to me.

Sounds to me you don't think they are capable.

Don't be so naive, there's more electricity and water now than before the war started, but yeah, we bombed everything we could. It was fun watching it on TV, all the pretty fireworks, and th...whatever.

More electricity and water now that before the war?? Really care to back that claim up?

Shmerek, you're completely ignoring the fact that there is a new governing body being formed in Iraq. That government will be providing some services to the people that never even existed under Saddam, and they will certainly be expanding some other services that did exists. The country will be growing and developing much faster than before, and because of that, the new government needs their infrastructure strengthened well beyond what Iraq has today, and all of that has to happen quickly as there are timetables envolved in the transition to that new government. [/B]

Once again can you show me some of these services that had never existed before? Of course iraq needs to strengthen its infrastructure but is that best done by foreigners?

[BDiddy]

Originally posted by eklipse:
If find it interesting that the pro-war crowd (that were so terrified by the threat Iraq posed or could pose to them that invasion and occupation was the only way forward) are now the ones saying that it's industry is in shambles, the citizens are uneducated incompetents with poor health and the country is devoid of any personnel and firms capable of managing large projects.

How exactly do they think that an Iraq in this sort of condition was a potential threat to the US and world peace?

The hypocrisy seems to be breaking down, no?

Korea fits this exact description... I'm not saying that Iraq does... I'm simply saying that it's conceivable, and not hypocritical.

[scooby snack]

> Let Iraqis rebuild their own country

Believe it or not, Iraq's rebuilding is good business for the region. Here's a article that explains what I mean: http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/25105.html

<snip>

Dubai, with an infrastructure that is designed to stimulate business, and the Middle East's leading business hub, is the ideal location to conduct power industry business. In particular, it will play a leading role in the reconstruction of Iraq's electricity generation and distribution sector. "From the enquiries we have already received about the 2004 show, we anticipate a significant number of visitors from Iraq who will be there specifically to source equipment and services," added Woodbridge.

</snip>

Also, it's my understanding that Halliburton and Bechtel will be playing the roles of "general contractors" who will employ many different sub-contractors to do the majority of the work, and yes even Iraqi's: http://www.memagazine.org/contents/c.../rbldiraq.html

<snip>

Perhaps the most controversial deal USAID has signed is the $34.6 million contract with Bechtel Corp. of San Francisco to cover the initial cost of infrastructure repair and reconstruction. This deal, which can provide as much as $680 million over 18 months, subject to Congressional approval, calls for the repair, rehabilitation, or reconstruction of vital elements of Iraq's infrastructure. This includes assessment and repair of power generation facilities, electrical grids, municipal water systems, and sewage systems. There is also a provision in the contract for the rehabilitation or repair of airport facilities, and the dredging, repair, and upgrading of the Umm Qasr port, in close cooperation with other USAID contractors working in those sectors.

The contract may also involve responsibility for the repair and reconstruction of hospitals, schools, selected ministry buildings, and major irrigation structures, as well as restoration of essential transport links. It is expected that Bechtel will work through subcontractors on a number of these tasks after identifying specific needs. Through all of its activities, Bechtel is expected to engage the Iraqi population and work to build local capacity.

</snip>