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junkie · Sep 24, 2003, 01:41 PM

So I am trying to figure out what to do for my sister. She just got a Palm. I want the easiest solution for her. She uses Entourage for email now but is not a heavy duty user. I don't think she has mastered the address book yet so I think she could tollerate a switch to Mail if it was the right way to go.

Apple's combo Mail+iSync+iCal seems pretty user friendly. But I am wondering if it really holds true when using the Palm. What do you have to do to start the sync? Interface makes it sound like you need to initiate it from both the Palm and the iSync software - is that correct? Also, if you dont use Entourage, how do you get "Notes" into the Palm?

Entourage seems like a good solution but the iSync UI is so cool, if it was a match in terms of features I would go for it.

Also, I doubt she would use .Mac - it is not much use to her.

kennedy · Sep 24, 2003, 03:04 PM

I would vote for Mail over Entourage, strongly. I love Mail; hate all flavors of MS mail programs. Eudora would be the only alternative to Mail I would consider, but that only for power mail users. For your sister, I'd recommend Mail... except if she is adverse to change, given she's already using Entourage.

For calendaring, Palm Desktop is awesome... much better than iCal right now. And of course the integration and consistency between Palm Desktop and the Palm would probably be higher consideration... and thus, I'd recommend Mail+PalmDesktop+HotSync. This is what I do.

Now, if you introduce an iSync supported cell phone in her suite of gadgets, given she's new to Palm, she'll probably be quite satisfied with iCal, and the plus of keeping her phone and her Palm in-sync would be huge value. So, if there's a third device to sync, given she doesn't really need a high-powered calendar, I'd recommend Mail+iCal+iSync.

HTH.

junkie · Sep 24, 2003, 03:32 PM

Thanks for the input.

Agreed that Palm desktop is good but I think it is important to have one address book, and it must be usable for email.

So are you just ignoring the address functions in palm desktop and syncing to the Apple addressbook? (Having 2 interfaces for addressbooks - where one is dead to syncing does not seem great to me. I guess I should have added that my goal is to have jstu one addressbook in the picture.)

I doubt there will be a phone in the picture anytime soon, but thanks.

Originally posted by kennedy:
I would vote for Mail over Entourage, strongly. I love Mail; hate all flavors of MS mail programs. Eudora would be the only alternative to Mail I would consider, but that only for power mail users. For your sister, I'd recommend Mail... except if she is adverse to change, given she's already using Entourage.

For calendaring, Palm Desktop is awesome... much better than iCal right now. And of course the integration and consistency between Palm Desktop and the Palm would probably be higher consideration... and thus, I'd recommend Mail+PalmDesktop+HotSync. This is what I do.

Now, if you introduce an iSync supported cell phone in her suite of gadgets, given she's new to Palm, she'll probably be quite satisfied with iCal, and the plus of keeping her phone and her Palm in-sync would be huge value. So, if there's a third device to sync, given she doesn't really need a high-powered calendar, I'd recommend Mail+iCal+iSync.

HTH.

Russian Mac fan · Sep 24, 2003, 06:27 PM

I am using Personal Organizer - the only one that syncs with categories in Datebk5. The interface is a bi outdated, but I hope they have a new release some time in the near future.

kennedy · Sep 24, 2003, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by junkie:
Agreed that Palm desktop is good but I think it is important to have one address book, and it must be usable for email.

I once thought the same... until I actually did the first iSync... then I realized that I really do have two notions of address book!

First, I have my Palm Addressbook, where I keep any contact information for anybody I might ever want to contact. I keep them categorized such that having lots of "unimportant" people doesn't clutter my oft-accessed names.

Second, I have my email address book which drives my address completion. When I merged the two, I largely lost this latter ability... I'd have to type most the name before I got to unique enough that it could complete the person I mean.

That combined with the inferiority of iCal led me to turn off iSync, purge my Apple Addressbook, repopulate it based on just my commonly-used emails, and leave my Palm Addressbook full of "everybody I know", where I can look up an email in the rare case that I need it. That works much MUCH better for me.

If I had a non-Palm phone I wanted to sync with, I think I may have chosen a different solution. But my plan is to get a Palm OS phone, so this seems to be best for me.

I wish iSync would be reworked to sync with Palm Desktop instead of syncing with the Palm device. And then gave me some options on what portion of the Palm Data I wanted sync'd. That would be the ideal solution.

gthyb · Sep 24, 2003, 11:02 PM

yeah, i'm also not incredibly pleased with the address book/palm syncing. the fields seem to get messed up a bit, and if you add someone to Apple's address book merely for their aim screen name on ichat, you plam ends up with lost of entries with just a name entry. Cluttered and annoying.

my PDA usage is kind of dormant now, until i decide on the correct combination of programs. When I used entourage to sycn everything with my palm (pre-isync), I had little issues with this.

i really like apple's address book, though and would like to put more than just emails and screennames in it...i just wish it synced better with the palm, or entrouage.

cgc · Oct 8, 2003, 09:49 AM

Mac Addict this month (October) reviews just that and they say that Entourage is better than Mail/ICal/Address Book combo.

keston · Oct 8, 2003, 10:06 AM

Don't get twisted with people MS dislike... Entourage is a very good PIM/Email client. I used it for 2-3 years on my powerbook for everything. I use Mail/iCal/Address Book now, but only because when I got my new G4 i decided to use mail instead of entourage... the whole iSync package won me over too. But entourage has some flexibility i wish Apple's Mail had. Either one is good for you Palm device... whichever one you were using previously or are more accustomed to should be fine.

Me�vv · Oct 8, 2003, 12:13 PM

Don't forget that his sister will be using her Palm as an input device.
How will her Notes be synced if she opts for Mail-Address Book-iSync?

I use Entourage since it was introduced. I have hundreds of notes that I cannot afford to be without. If someone tells me that the Apple Suite now handles notes then I might finally take the Leap. But for now I am happy with Entourage.

Riddler · Oct 8, 2003, 04:10 PM

iSync sucks butt when it comes to PalmOS support. The iCal syncing is OK but the address book syncing is pathetic.

I have different "Groups" set up in AddressBook for Family, Friends, Business etc but when I iSync them over to my TT they all get lumped in the unfiled Category, I'm not manually filing 250 contacts into the right category, it would take hours!

I don't believe Apple are very interested in supporting Palm, they seem to be concenrating on Symbian support. This makes sense as hybrid pda/phones are the future and Symbian will become the standard OS for phones unless PalmOS 6 is very very special.

I love my TT and wish Apple would give it the iSync support it deserves.

Me�vv · Oct 9, 2003, 12:06 PM

As a Palm owner since 1997 I always used to feel that my Palm was sort of like a "small Mac". It was Mac-like in its appearance and the battle between Palm and Windows CE / Pocket PC was just like the Mac vs PC fight.

I happily used DateBK3 later DateBK4 and now version 5 is out. Palm desktop is not very
good for anything really. It does not compare with Entourage or Outlook (on Windows).

The only way to fully synch my Palm is to use Outlook on my work PC. It sort of works with Entourage on my Powerbook.

The most important feature of my Palm is the ability to sync notes.
When will Apple support
a) Notes and ToDos? It cannot be that complicated to build that into iCal...
b) The Address Book? The fields are just a mess and it is a joke but not even funny.

keston · Oct 9, 2003, 12:17 PM

a) NOTES has no reason to be a calendar specific or time related aplication, so i dont see why iCal should have notes as a built-in function (why should i be expected to use iCal for keeping notes on my Palm?? eg. if i dont use iCal for calendar related stuff).

b) I believe iCal already syncs with the ToDos on the Palm just fine.

What i think we need is a notes/sticky application like sticky brain or something, that has Palm/iSync support. So maybe the appeal should be directed at sofware companies that make some notes/sticky apps currently.

Also, I agree that the address book/category syncing needs some work.

And of course people who use MS Entourage dont have this problem, as it already has notes.

Originally posted by Me�vv:
The most important feature of my Palm is the ability to sync notes.
When will Apple support
a) Notes and ToDos? It cannot be that complicated to build that into iCal...
b) The Address Book? The fields are just a mess and it is a joke but not even funny.

kennedy · Oct 9, 2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by Me�vv:
I happily used DateBK3 later DateBK4 and now version 5 is out. Palm desktop is not very
good for anything really. It does not compare with Entourage or Outlook (on Windows).

Have you ever used Palm Desktop 4.1 on Mac OS X??? Its a great program. Waayyyy better than either Address Book or iCal are in Jaguar. And better than any option I ever used on my PeeCee (though, certainly not way better... there have been good calendar/address books out since long before either Palm or MS had anything worthwhile).

I certainly hope there are some HUGE improvements coming in iCal and Address Book in Panther... they are pretty weak apps right now... but the iSync concept is very good.

On iSync to Palm, I think they missed the boat in a fundamental way. Rather than thinking of themselves as a Palm Desktop replacement that just uses HotSync to implement the iSync to the Palm device, they should have instead thought of Palm Desktop as the device they are sync'ing with. Then the Apple apps could coexist with the Palm apps with iSync doing the coordination. Of course, if they can make the Apple apps clearly superior to Palm Desktop, then their approach would be okay. But if they thought they were there in Jaguar, then they are pretty clueless... not making Panther seem too promising.

FWIW.