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timmerk · Sep 30, 2003, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by yellowdog:
FWIW -- I just tried it with my setup Safari 1.0 v85 and I hd no trouble logging in and navigating the various menu choices.

Same here, I just logged in, too. Try resetting safari

SomeToast · Sep 30, 2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by kennedy:
Now, with that said, MS does have a huge benefit from IE's ownership of the web... as it allows them to add new stuff or slowly shift stuff that will get adopted very quick relative to anything anybody else can do. That's a lot of leverage... must be nice to be the standards setter.

And that's where MS owns the web -- especially when Longhorn is the browser.

Microsoft adds snazzy new interactive web-based features to Longhorn that sites begin to incorporate. Your PC can't access this site? Upgrade to Longhorn. Your Mac or Linux machine can't access this site? Well, T.S. hippie, sucks to be you. Buy a PC.

The web will still be around, but commercial and business uses will be carried on the Microsoft Proprietary Content Delivery Network -- PC-only, separate and unequal.

The prospect of this scares the crap out of me.

ryaxnb · Sep 30, 2003, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by kennedy:
Yeah, right. But totally unrealistic. The majority of the websites out there do not have a budget that would support that. I *do* have multiple machines and test on multiple platforms... but that's because I am a Mac guy. You can keep that attitude, but I sure hope Apple doesn't adopt it...

Apple needs to recognize that they need to make it easy for web developers to work with them. The goal isn't to sell a few extra Macs to web developers with a big budget... the goal is customer satisfaction among all the Mac users out there... and that means Safari needs to work with any site that IE works with... and that means they need to make it easy for low-budget web developers to keep their sites compatible. Two ways to do that:

1) Make sure Safari conforms to IE as well as the standards (IE *is* a standard, like it or not).

2) Provide a PeeCee development tool that will detect things that are non-standard or will likely cause incompatibilities with Safari.

Just test it in Mozilla Win, Konqueror Lin (free), and IE Win.

ryaxnb · 12:40 PM

Originally posted by kennedy:
Its not quite that bad. MS doesn't really own the web. The current IE does. If MS put out a new version of IE that broke a bunch of web sites, then it would be uniformly thrashed by the entire world and all would be recommended to stay with the old version. That is, MS is trapped by IE (the standards it sets) as much as anyone else. To deny that you, as a web browser maker or website developer, are trapped by that, is to doom your web browser or website.

Now, with that said, MS does have a huge benefit from IE's ownership of the web... as it allows them to add new stuff or slowly shift stuff that will get adopted very quick relative to anything anybody else can do. That's a lot of leverage... must be nice to be the standards setter.

Actually, that's not necesairily true. Mozilla 0.9 and later have a quirks mode for IE-style pages. IE 6.5 or 7 could do the same. But the Problem #2: IE 7 will only come with Windows XP 2005 (aka. Longhorn,) if it comes out (I'm guessing here.) (Windows XP 2005 Media Center edition 2006

, can't help it, look at new MCE 2004.) But anyway, there are still lots of people on Windows 4 (95), 4.5 (98), 4.6 (Me), NT 4, Win 5 (2000), Win 5.1 (XP), Win 5.2 (Server 2003.) And at least with Win 5, 5.1 and 5.2, there will still be lots in the furture, most likely. Ugh.

And here's a quote from MS:
Microsoft is committed to implementing the Internet standards that make sense to allow our customers to build great solutions. As standards emerge, we evaluate them to see which standards might best serve our customers' needs.
Oh? A. Evaluating? Have they been "evaluating" CSS1 for 5 years? It sure seems like it could help consumers.
B. Why not just implement all of them?
While we're evaluating Microsoft, they have two types of people to worry about: Prosumers and the Court. Consumers don't know enough. Prosumers can rant & rave, but can't force anything, and often don't move off Wintel (have they ever heard of a Mac?) The Court justs keeps on saying "don't do it again" everytime they, yep, do it again! At least 3 times.

nforcer · Sep 30, 2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I just can't F@#$ing stand it when they go out of their way to make Safari (or the Mac) NOT work!!!!!

You don't have to develop content for my computer of choice, but at least let me look!!!

http://www.movielink.com

and about another hundred sites. I hate having to trick them into letting me look around!

I really hate that. For sites that go specifically out of their way to block you, I say, simply don't visit them. Everytime you visit them with a spoofed http header, you are simply supporting their ass-backwards ideals and giving them "marketshare". If you must visit a site that has specifically blocked you, be sure to complain to the webmaster, and block all ads until they change their minds.

nforcer · Sep 30, 2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by timmerk:
Same here, I just logged in, too. Try resetting safari

Resetting preferences and other settings with any software, especially after using a beta version of the same software (especially for anyone who beta tests browsers) has fixed a lot of incompatibilities I have seen. Anytime one finds a problem that they cannot reproduce or workaround accurately, I recommend they quit said application, move the settings files for said application out of their normal location, restart the application, and set their preference settings again.

mikemako · Nov 4, 2003, 06:07 PM

I need help regarding a problem with Safari's compatibility with www.myspace.com. It's a site where you go and make silly profiles for your friends to see.. It's a lot of fun. Anyway, it is possible to customize your page with sounds and images, but the sounds will not show up on Safari. They work on IE just fine.

Does anyone know of a similiar problem with Safari? I've looked all through Safari's 2 preference settings, and looked in the "Quicktime" Preference Pane. I downloaded all updates and 3rd party updates from Quicktime. It bothers me that I can't figure this one out!

Does anyone know of a solution to this, or is it just a feature not built into Safari?

andretan · Nov 5, 2003, 02:53 AM

<start rant>

The other day I got really pissed off. Was designing a website project for class and I did everything on my Mac. Viewed perfectly in Safari, Camino and Internet Exploder - as in the layout was what I wanted.

Dumped all the files to a .zip and viewed them on my home PC - a P4 2.53GHz with WinXP Home. Viewed perfectly as well.

BUT, when I uploaded the files to a temporary webhost, I could still view everything as intact, but that wasn't what my friends saw - they are PC users FWIW. So I got them to take screenshots to show me.

The screenshots they took had gaps in between the site elements and stuff like that.

The weird thing is that the problem's with Internet Explorer FOR Windows. Kinda dumb really.

</end rant>

andretan · Nov 5, 2003, 03:01 AM

<start yet another rant>

Another dumb thing was that someone I know designed a really fugly ( <-- it really was ) website.

I helped him to burn his stuff onto a CD-R on my iBook and then opened it in Safari.

The site looked completely screwed up. Reason being? He didn't declare properly the attributes for the top frame. So everything looked screwed. Heh.

And there he was saying that my iBook sucks and stuff like that

and was saying stuff like I need a 17" Powerbook and crap like that. And there I was,

.

BTW, he's one of those jealous PC using idiots who have never touched a Mac before.

What a ****ed up day I had.

</end yet another rant>

solitere · Nov 5, 2003, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by LeeG:
I have heard all the excuses before:

3) Its a beta! (not so anymore, though debateable)

Lee

Well it�s not a beta anymore but it�s still a 1.x version. But it�s getting better! 1.1 version in Panther is proof of that. But we will propably not see the best of safari until version 1.3-1.5.
Until then, use Mozilla 1.4/1.5 browsers they seems to cope with most websites!

krove · Nov 5, 2003, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by andretan:
<start rant>

The other day I got really pissed off. Was designing a website project for class and I did everything on my Mac. Viewed perfectly in Safari, Camino and Internet Exploder - as in the layout was what I wanted.

Dumped all the files to a .zip and viewed them on my home PC - a P4 2.53GHz with WinXP Home. Viewed perfectly as well.

BUT, when I uploaded the files to a temporary webhost, I could still view everything as intact, but that wasn't what my friends saw - they are PC users FWIW. So I got them to take screenshots to show me.

The screenshots they took had gaps in between the site elements and stuff like that.

The weird thing is that the problem's with Internet Explorer FOR Windows. Kinda dumb really.

</end rant>

What text editor/web page editor were you using? Some programs use Mac vs. Windows vs. UNIX-style line ending that some browsers interpret and forget to parse out. As such, they insert extra space below elements, etc. Try removing carriage returns in your html and take a look again.

andretan · Nov 5, 2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by krove:
What text editor/web page editor were you using? Some programs use Mac vs. Windows vs. UNIX-style line ending that some browsers interpret and forget to parse out. As such, they insert extra space below elements, etc. Try removing carriage returns in your html and take a look again.

Was using Dreamweaver MX.

The ironic thing was that when I viewed the page in WinXP's IE, I got a properly rendered page. Whereas my friend viewed it on his PC with WinXP in IE, there was the gap in between the elements.

Oh yeah. I'll take note of that next time

Thanks.

sniffer · Nov 5, 2003, 01:19 PM

http://www.happycog.com/lectures/dwws/

^Nice linkage to forward to webmasters with bad mac support.

Cadaver · Nov 5, 2003, 10:31 PM

Regardless of bugs/incompatibilities in Safari, it bothers me more that some web designers code specifically and only for Window IE. While I don't think this is on the rise personally (with better cross-platform tools available than Microsoft-specific tools), it still irks me.

And one that really kills me is a specific site on my work's intranet. Its a hospital-wide patient information database, and it's specifically programmed to block any browser that doesn't announce itself as Internet Explorer. Wont let you log in if you're using Mozilla, Netscape, Firebird, Safari, Camino, Omniweb, Opera... anything - Mac or PC. Only IE. The best part is that if I change Omniweb or Safari to spoof IE, the site works perfectly! What the hell are these IT guys smoking? Do they think that IE is more secure??

Love Calm Quiet · Nov 5, 2003, 11:37 PM

Must be cool to be a lazy, slackard web designer and just say to users: "Hey, I can't be bothered following standards. Just get the brand of OS I have."

Developer · Nov 6, 2003, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by sniffer:
http://www.happycog.com/lectures/dwws/

^Nice linkage to forward to webmasters with bad mac support.

http://www.happycog.com/lectures/dwws/22.html

What is the "two sheet method"?