[Gamoe]

I noticed another post complaining about AppleWorks, but I'll just add to the topic:

First off, I'd like to know how many here use AppleWorks exclusively for word processing. Do you think maybe Apple should release a stand alone word processor in the future?

So, when the heck is Apple going to give AppleWorks, stand alone or not, a real, major update?

Also, TextEdit:

Back in the classic Mac OS, we had SimpleText to handle simple, basic text editing (although, oddly it was also able to open QT movies), but TextEdit in Mac OS X is much more than SimpleText. I mean, TextEdit has a ruler-- there are enough formatting options to make it a basic word processor. And, blessed with OS services, it can check your spelling as you type, speak text (as SimpleText could also) and open an save simple Word documents, and even view HTML files.

It seems to me that TextEdit is not far from beating AW. And it's only 1 MB big! Only a few options, tables and a thesaurus (which should really be an OS service) are missing in order for it to be on par with the AppleWorks word processor. AppleWorks can't even check spelling as you type, and its speech command is buried somewhere, undiscovered by most users.

Also, although it does have fewer options, TextEdit has pretty "clean" menus. Every function and command is clear, unlike AppleWorks.

For example, never have I used "Insert Equation" under the "Edit" Menu, but I use "Check Document Spelling", "Thesaurus...", "Word Count..." and "Select Dictionaries..." (to switch between English and Spanish) all the time. Yet, they are buried in the "Writing Tools" submenu under "Edit". Also why not make switching dictionaries easier?-- Much like switching languages in Mac OS X.

But years pass and nothing... I seriously hope you're working on something for us, Apple. I would gladly pay for a worthwhile word processor upgrade.

So, what do you think?

[cpac]

Seems you've really got three points:
(1) - what do people use appleworks for?
(2) - what improvements does TextEdit need to be a fully functional word processor?
(3) - will/should Apple release an update/office competitor?

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I don't use appleworks for anything.
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TextEdit is a good start, but to be a competent word processor it still needs at a minimum:

tables
headers/footers
footnotes
better control over margins (can't set at less than 1 inch currently...)

the whole thesaurus thing is unnecessary given services (try Nisus Thesaurus - it and OmniDictionary are the best two little freeware apps out there).
-------------
Apple has already released Keynote, which while still pretty rough around the edges, it a decent to good PowerPoint replacement.

TextEdit has it's shortcomings (listed above), but the oft-rumored "Document.app" would be very welcome, especially for the many users who are currently scraping by on AppleWorks. However, the biggest challenge is .doc compatibility, which is still sadly necessary for most of the world. Since this is a closed format, it may not be worth pissing of M$ by releasing a (obviously cheaper) Word competitor.

Excel is, always was, and always will be in a league of its own w/r/t spreadsheets. Those that use spreadsheets appropriately (i.e. not for simple lists) will continue to use Excel. For simple lists and whatnot, there are better options out there already (i.e. OmniOutliner).

So:

�Apple need not release a complete AppleWorks update - let the poor app die.
�Apple should release a Keynote update - get rid of some bugs, do better slide timing, etc.
�Apple might consider releasing Document.app, but also needs to consider the consequences from M$.
�Apple should not try to compete with Excel.

[clarkgoble]

I'll lay really good odds that there is an Appleworks update around the corner. They were probably waiting on Panther. I say January myself. As for Keynote, I believe that there are a few betas around of a newer version. As I recall it is only a "half version" update. But I could be wrong. Anyone know? I could swear I heard someone discussing this.

[Gamoe]

cpac, you've got my main points down very well, though I'm not sure about the last one.

I'm not concerned with Office. I have thus far done without it and refuse to use it. But, I am concerned with having a truly modern and competent word processor. On the other hand, I would like to see something pose a serious challenge to M$ Office.

I don't know about killing AppleWorks, but I would like to see it reborn. Personally, I don't care about about any of the other modules, besides the word processor, but other people do, and I like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing Apple come out with an Office competitor.

[cpac]

Originally posted by Gabriel Morales:
I'm not concerned with Office. I have thus far done without it and refuse to use it.

Good job, and more power to you.

However, if M$ kills Office for the Mac, there will be huge, perhaps insurmountable, barriers to most people adopting a Mac platform, and huge barriers for continued use by many of us who currently use Macs, but are forced to have full Office compatibility.

-----------

That said, Apple did take it upon themselves to develop a competitive web browser, it would make sense that they are at least investing in an Office replacement in case M$ balks on continuing development for the Mac.

[bbales]

I have used AppleWorks for 11 or so years, since it was MacWrite. (Still have MacWrite on my computer, in fact.)

I did, nearly two years ago, break down and also get Office X, because I was really tired of having to translate stuff via MacLink Plus, and then STLLL have people tell me they couldn't open things. Unfortunately, the onus is on US to make life easier for the Office users of the world, who maintain it's because we're on a Mac, not a PC, and therefore everything is our fault.

I still stick mostly with AppleWorks, then transfer stuff into Office to send via e-mail. But I will say, I have dropped using AW's spreadsheet component and stick with Excel. It seems to work better. So -- for years I used AW for word processing and other things, but now I mostly use it for word processing. Occasionally I do a drawing document, too -- for a sign or something. But that's pretty few and far between. I stick with AW because I'm so used to it.

I'd really, REALLY like Apple to add scroll wheel functions to it, though.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by cpac:
Good job, and more power to you.

However, if M$ kills Office for the Mac, there will be huge, perhaps insurmountable, barriers to most people adopting a Mac platform, and huge barriers for continued use by many of us who currently use Macs, but are forced to have full Office compatibility.

Exactly. All the mac idiots on this board who think that M$ Office should die are fools. There's nothing wrong with refusing to use it or hating it, but the simple fact we are at the mercy of Microsoft to continue developing office for the mac. This isn't Internet Explorer which was simply an application that would render open-standards HTML, .doc is a closed format and switchers and non-switchers alike need that compatibility.

If I were Apple I would internally develop an Office replacement just in case MS did pull out and continually develop and update it internally.

If I were Apple I would also not do anything that would jeopardize the fairly comfortable relationship Mac users have with the software giant. Don't forget that they are partly responsible for the resurrection of Apple.

[pliny]

Appleworks runs faster on Macs than Office does.

[Cadaver]

While I still rely on Word when people (read: PC users) send me .doc files, I've been very successful at sending out new files as .rtf files, and they've been none-the-wiser. Thankfully (at least for now) Word on the PC has had good .rtf support.

I'm doing this as an experiment, mainly, to see how well I could get along with using something faster and more streamlined, such as Nissus Writer X, as my main word processor. It wouldn't bother me at all if Apple released its own word processor.

While I'm not sure a whole Apple "Office" is necessary, I'd like to see what Apple could do with a word processor... no doubt it would be as nice as Keynote. Now if only Apple could produce a Keynote viewer/player for Windows! I do understand the difficulty of this.

The main obstical (for me) using something other than Word has been my dependence on EndNote, but now since version 7 supports .rtf documents too, this is far less of a concern (I don't use the Cite-while-you-write feature of EndNote + Word anyway, so I wont miss it).

[Gamoe]

macintologist wrote:

"Don't forget that they [M$] are partly responsible for the resurrection of Apple."

How the heck do you figure?! They are responsible for backstabbing both Apple and IBM (for starters) blatantly copying Apple's GUI OS (regardless of what the technically inept courts said back then), blackmailing Apple into having IE on the Mac, and the list goes on and on and on.

A returning cofounder with a vengeance, new management, new ideas and designs, and a new focus is responsible for the resurrection of Apple.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Gabriel Morales:
macintologist wrote:

"Don't forget that they [M$] are partly responsible for the resurrection of Apple."

How the heck do you figure?! They are responsible for backstabbing both Apple and IBM (for starters) blatantly copying Apple's GUI OS (regardless of what the technically inept courts said back then), blackmailing Apple into having IE on the Mac, and the list goes on and on and on.

A returning cofounder with a vengeance, new management, new ideas and designs, and a new focus is responsible for the resurrection of Apple.

Lol my friend, that's why I said partly. Investing 100 million in Apple stock and giving analysts that impression that a software giant like M$ supports Apple would surely be an important factor in the revival (and survival at that time) of Apple.

[calle73]

I think Appleworks is a good app, but its interface is a mess!!!
I have recently started using Ragtime Solo instead, which is free to use for individuals.

http://www.ragtime-online.com/

And in Ragtime the scrollwheel works!!!

[Love Calm Quiet]

Re: Ragtime...

Thanks for the lead on this most interesting looking software. I am always a bit leery of investing much time/energy on "free" software - especially when accompanied by an expensive commercial web site. Could you tell me something about what "free to individuals" for "non-commercial" use means? Their site didn't easily explain.

If I start creating projects in Ragtime will I have trouble sharing them with other? Will I be required not to web-share them, etc.? How *do* they make their money? (I'm more trusting when I understand a publisher's full agenda).

Thanks - I like to be able to use, support, and recommend such interesting software.

[Gamoe]

Originally posted by calle73:
I think Appleworks is a good app, but its interface is a mess!!!
I have recently started using Ragtime Solo instead, which is free to use for individuals.

http://www.ragtime-online.com/

And in Ragtime the scrollwheel works!!!

Hello calle73,

I also downloaded Ragtime "Solo", went through the demo and found it a promising word processor, at least. But like the last poster, I am also careful to commit time, energy and work to a particular format without knowing how supported it is or will be in the future.

It is true that you could say the same thing about AppleWorks now. We do not know what will become of it. But many, many people have used and still use AppleWorks (that is, there is a significant established user base), so I think it's pretty safe to assume that the format will be supported by Apple whenever they feel like coming out with something new in this area.

[dtriska]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Lol my friend, that's why I said partly. Investing 100 million in Apple stock and giving analysts that impression that a software giant like M$ supports Apple would surely be an important factor in the revival (and survival at that time) of Apple.

$150 million in preferred shares. The preferred part is important, as they are non-voting. For some reason, some Windows people think Microsoft bought Apple or something similar.

The image, however, was the biggest help. It told everyone that the war between Microsoft and Apple was over (officially, anyway) and reassured Wall Street that Apple wasn't going to go out of business with a friend like Microsoft.

[dracoleb]

I happen to think MS Office is a good program, or group of programs, depending on how you look at it. Remember, Microsoft is a software company, they make software. They still make money if they sell it to PC users or Mac users. I personally don't like the Windows operating system, so I use a Mac. I like MS Office so I use it, though I prefer Mail to Entourage. Again I use Mail rather than Entourage. I see no reason to get rid of MS Office, just as I see no reason why Apple shouldn't make an office suite. They are after all both software companies.