[Cipher13]

I've asked before in threads off topic, and nobody seems to have an absolute answer... which is what I need.

I've heard that it won't, but as I said... not for sure.

I've been given hell with an iBook I have, while attempting to install Jag on it. I finally got it on, but while updating it to 10.2.8, something got majorly messed up.

So; I can either repair the 10.2.8 install (which requires a reinstall), or I can install Panther, which I'd much prefer, as I don't know where my Jag dev tools disc is.

It isn't a simple matter of booting off the Panther CD and finding out, because I can't boot this machine off a CD. I'll have to erase the volume, and install via target disk mode, and I'd rather not do that if it isn't going to work.

Anyone reasonably confident on this?

I've searched the kbase, and as per usual, it's freakin' useless.

[Detrius]

I also do not have an answer from first-hand experience. However, from what you are saying, you have Jaguar booting from 64MB of RAM. Based on this, I am reasonably confident that it will boot... eventually. All you need to be able to boot is enough RAM to hold enough of the kernel to be able to control virtual memory and hard disk access, plus a little bit to work. If you only have this, your machine will be endlessly thrashing because it does not have enough RAM to do any real work, like dragging a window. So with this in mind, I would expect Panther to be able to boot just fine on 64MB of RAM.

But why would you even try to run any version of OS X on 64MB of RAM? If you want it to be a standalone server, put Darwin 7.0 on it, as you won't have the overhead of the WindowServer or the loginwindow, which is what's going to cause the endless thrashing.

[gorickey]

I am 100% sure I wouldn't do it even if it DID work...even if it did boot, it would be worthless once up and running....

Throw some more cheap RAM in immediately....

[jcb9]

I actually tried this the other day - I recently replaced my clamshell iBook with a new Powerbook. The Powerbook has 64 MB RAM built in, and a 256 MB chip, so I removed the chip just to see how slow it'd be with 64 MB. It didn't boot at all - I got the flashing question mark at startup.

[Cipher13]

Detrius: that was my reckoning too... I didn't see a reason why it wouldn't work, unless Apple were being bastards about it. Now that you mention it, I'm very tempted to run Darwin on it; I mean, I intended on installing Debian, but the version I have won't initialise video, so I cannot install it (the iBook has no screen, just video out). The version of Yellowdog, which was the other option, doesn't have a bootloader compatible with the iBook. I've got disc 1 of YDL3 downloaded, but need the other discs... Sigh. I'll definately look into Darwin 7.

gorickey: This machine is simple a router; nothing more. It will be doing nothing other than sharing the internet connection. It runs fine with Jag, so I can't imagine Panther would be that much worse (if it DID work).

jcb9: Damn... that's what I feared. I'd heard it was the case, but had to find out... Oh well. I doubt there's a way around it, either.

Thanks everyone for the responses...

[Detrius]

If Panther is unwilling to even initiate boot, Darwin 7 will likely be no different, as it is the core of the OS. Darwin 6.x would correspond with Jaguar. You can still install XFree86 to get a GUI, if you want. Fink will also still work under Darwin (vs. requiring OS X).

Also, for an ultra-secure router, you could install 9 and IPNetRouter, if you can still find a copy.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Detrius:
Also, for an ultra-secure router, you could install 9 and IPNetRouter, if you can still find a copy.

That's exactly what I'm running now... IPNetRouter + 9 + NetBarrier.

You can't get any more secure than that without unplugging.

I want CLI access, though.

I think I'll pass on the Darwin thing, now that I think about it... I mean, Jag was serving me perfectly... I've no need to go any higher. I'll stick with that.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
That's exactly what I'm running now... IPNetRouter + 9 + NetBarrier.

You can't get any more secure than that without unplugging.

I want CLI access, though.

I think I'll pass on the Darwin thing, now that I think about it... I mean, Jag was serving me perfectly... I've no need to go any higher. I'll stick with that.

Darwin 6 is Jag -- without the Aqua GUI. You can get it (and any other version of Linux/BSD you want) here:

http://www.linuxiso.org/distro.php?distro=60

[hldan]

I'm lost as to why the original poster can't buy a cheap ram stick to upgrade the ram to even 128mb and take the guess work out of all of this. It's a total waste of time to go on the forums when a cheap ram upgrade will address the concern.
I don't mean to sound a bit rude but even for lightweight use don't be cheap and go the lowest of the low end requirements to run an operating system if you have to even ask if it will boot up to Panther.
Most of the time a new operating system will have higher ram and graphics card requirements for best performance or any performance.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by hldan:
I'm lost as to why the original poster can't buy a cheap ram stick to upgrade the ram to even 128mb and take the guess work out of all of this. It's a total waste of time to go on the forums when a cheap ram upgrade will address the concern.
I don't mean to sound a bit rude but even for lightweight use don't be cheap and go the lowest of the low end requirements to run an operating system if you have to even ask if it will boot up to Panther.
Most of the time a new operating system will have higher ram and graphics card requirements for best performance or any performance.

Even a cheap RAM chip (128MB) is ~$90. Waste of money.

I have no NEED for it. It would be NICE to be running Panther but it is not necessary.

My original post was quite clear; nowhere did I advise that upgrading the RAM was a possibility. That is not changing.

[lenox]

Do you actually plan to _use_ this computer? Or is this more of a 'look what I did' kind of thing?

Either way, buying ram would be cheaper than a Panther license, and actually make your computer usable.

[skyman]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
I've asked before in threads off topic, and nobody seems to have an absolute answer... which is what I need.

I've heard that it won't, but as I said... not for sure.

I've been given hell with an iBook I have, while attempting to install Jag on it. I finally got it on, but while updating it to 10.2.8, something got majorly messed up.

So; I can either repair the 10.2.8 install (which requires a reinstall), or I can install Panther, which I'd much prefer, as I don't know where my Jag dev tools disc is.

It isn't a simple matter of booting off the Panther CD and finding out, because I can't boot this machine off a CD. I'll have to erase the volume, and install via target disk mode, and I'd rather not do that if it isn't going to work.

Anyone reasonably confident on this?

I've searched the kbase, and as per usual, it's freakin' useless.

I installed Panther on a 333MHz iMac with 96 MEG RAM. It would not boot after the install. I think the min is 128 MEG.

[Rebel Without a Clue]

Originally posted by lenox:
Do you actually plan to _use_ this computer? Or is this more of a 'look what I did' kind of thing?

Either way, buying ram would be cheaper than a Panther license, and actually make your computer usable.

From reading, Ciph has a headless iBook (morbidly interested how that happened) and he's going to use it as a router.

So, yes the machine will actually be useful, but no, it doesn't really require 128 MB ram to shuffle network traffic around.

I'd say just stick with 10.2. If it ain't broke...

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Even a cheap RAM chip (128MB) is ~$90. Waste of money.

Waste of money and a rip-off. Who sells a 128mb stick for that much?

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Waste of money and a rip-off. Who sells a 128mb stick for that much?

Looking at RAMSeeker for iBook memory, you can get 128MB of RAM for $25.

[RayX]

OpenBSD might be a better choice for a Router/Gateway/Firewall if you need to work with 64MB of RAM, plus the extra security and functionality you will gain.

I haven't really followed the development of the PPC port, but from what I've heard it's good.

[TheSpaz]

If you ONLY use it as a router, then why would it be worth paying $129 to run Panther on a Machine that worked fine with Jaguar?

How much fun can you have with Panther if it's on a computer with 64MB of Ram?

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by lenox:
Do you actually plan to _use_ this computer? Or is this more of a 'look what I did' kind of thing?

Either way, buying ram would be cheaper than a Panther license, and actually make your computer usable.

Refer below... Rebel's got it.

Originally posted by Rebel Without a Clue:
From reading, Ciph has a headless iBook (morbidly interested how that happened) and he's going to use it as a router.

So, yes the machine will actually be useful, but no, it doesn't really require 128 MB ram to shuffle network traffic around.

I'd say just stick with 10.2. If it ain't broke...

I'll post some photos.

I didn't break the screen, FYI

Originally posted by skyman:
I installed Panther on a 333MHz iMac with 96 MEG RAM. It would not boot after the install. I think the min is 128 MEG.

Damn... thanks for the info. Seems rather definite

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Waste of money and a rip-off. Who sells a 128mb stick for that much?

Australian dollars... and the cheapest retailer in the country. Sucks, huh.

Originally posted by ryaxnb:
Looking at RAMSeeker for iBook memory, you can get 128MB of RAM for $25.

USD. It's a very different story over here. That seems abnormally low, though...

Originally posted by RayX:
OpenBSD might be a better choice for a Router/Gateway/Firewall if you need to work with 64MB of RAM, plus the extra security and functionality you will gain.

I haven't really followed the development of the PPC port, but from what I've heard it's good.

I'd be very interested in running Darwin or OpenBSD or something... though if I really wanted ultimate security, I'd stick with OS9.

I do have an alterior motive for wanting to run pure OS X... I like streaming music from the G4 to the router (which is in my bedroom) using iTunes, while asleep. No performance impact, of course.

Originally posted by TheSpaz:
If you ONLY use it as a router, then why would it be worth paying $129 to run Panther on a Machine that worked fine with Jaguar?

How much fun can you have with Panther if it's on a computer with 64MB of Ram?

I've got spare licenses for Panther, so the question is, why not?

[Appleman]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
...using iTunes, while asleep....

So the conclusion is that actually it doesn't matter if it will boot or not, since you are asleep anyway