[mjankor]

Ummm

Does anyone know how to disable mouse driven expos� using applescript?

Then we could write an applescript to turn of expos� and load Halo but right now it's driving me nuts.

Failing that does anyone have any other ideas?

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by mjankor:
Ummm

Does anyone know how to disable mouse driven expos� using applescript?

Then we could write an applescript to turn of expos� and load Halo but right now it's driving me nuts.

Failing that does anyone have any other ideas?

I'm surprised that they didn't disable it in the game code. Other games don't seem to have that issue.

[a2daj]

Halo is just a Windowed app that switches resolutions to the same size as the game so it behaves just like any other app with a title bar. Even WindowShade works with Halo at fullscreen and the goddamn iChat windows pop up when I'm in the middle of a game. I think they did this because of all the people that complain when you can't switch back and forth between a game and checking email. Most other games 'capture' the screen. I've always been curious if that can affect performance... If it does, then I'd rather have the game capture the screen and make the user hit command + keypad enter to switch to windowed mode to check their precious email. When I'm in a game, I don't want to be distracted by email or IMs.

[Tulkas]

Hit F9 to get back to the halo window if you accidentally turn on expose. It rarely happens to me and I like being able to switch to iChat/see new messages when playing.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Fake fullscreen.

This does not bode well. I'm on the verge of buying this game but things like that are unacceptable. I hope they fix this in an upcoming patch or something.

Or I might just wait for a new computer before buying this game. I can't help but think Halo for Mac/PC is a complete disaster.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Or I might just wait for a new computer before buying this game. I can't help but think Halo for Mac/PC is a complete disaster.

Well, it IS a lot of fun if you have the hardware to play it.

Until UT2004 comes out, Halo is gonna be my multiplayer game of choice. It's just too fun to get in a tank and drive over to the enemy base and blast people as they walk outside, or to hop in a Banshee and rain down fire from the heavens on some sniper who thinks he's clever.

[mfessenden]

I actually like the fact that you can Cmd-Tab to other apps while playing the game. You can write an email while a game is ending and waiting for the next map to load.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by mfessenden:
I actually like the fact that you can Cmd-Tab to other apps while playing the game. You can write an email while a game is ending and waiting for the next map to load.

Maybe it's my G5 or something, but it only takes like 2 or 3 seconds for a map to load for me. I could never compose an email in that short amount of time, even factoring in the 30 seconds or so that the score screen is up.

[a2daj]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Fake fullscreen.

This does not bode well. I'm on the verge of buying this game but things like that are unacceptable. I hope they fix this in an upcoming patch or something.

That'd be one of the worst reasons to not buy the game.

[mfessenden]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
Maybe it's my G5 or something, but it only takes like 2 or 3 seconds for a map to load for me. I could never compose an email in that short amount of time, even factoring in the 30 seconds or so that the score screen is up.

I have a G5 too...what I meant was you can duck out of the game at a slow point and do something else...email, chat...whatever.

[Jaey]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Fake fullscreen.

This does not bode well. I'm on the verge of buying this game but things like that are unacceptable. I hope they fix this in an upcoming patch or something.

Or I might just wait for a new computer before buying this game. I can't help but think Halo for Mac/PC is a complete disaster.

I actually think this is just another reason to buy the game. It's really useful, and I've had no problems using expos� by mistake. So I wouldn't call it "fake fullscreen", I would call it "clever method of having fullscreen while actually playing the game in a window so expos� works". Or something shorter...

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by a2daj:
That'd be one of the worst reasons to not buy the game.

No! That'd be one of YOUR worst reasons to not buy a game. Sorry if I hold stricter requirements than you. I don't know how old you are or where you get the time and money to buy all these games regardless of their quality but I don't have that time or money.

The games I choose have to be well ported, fun/interesting and fairly new before I even consider buying them.

Just being 'fun' won't cut it if it's spoiled by technicalities such as Expose kicking in while I'm duking it out with an alien.

Originally posted by Jaey:

I actually think this is just another reason to buy the game. It's really useful, and I've had no problems using expos� by mistake. So I wouldn't call it "fake fullscreen", I would call it "clever method of having fullscreen while actually playing the game in a window so expos� works". Or something shorter...

I would call it fake fullscreen. Because I've grown used to fullscreen meaning 'unaffected by other apps'. If I wanted fullscreen in a window, I'd want it in a visible window with parts of my desktop showing around it. But I don't.

[Steb Mad]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
No! That'd be one of YOUR worst reasons to not buy a game. Sorry if I hold stricter requirements than you. I don't know how old you are or where you get the time and money to buy all these games regardless of their quality but I don't have that time or money.

The games I choose have to be well ported, fun/interesting and fairly new before I even consider buying them.

Just being 'fun' won't cut it if it's spoiled by technicalities such as Expose kicking in while I'm duking it out with an alien.



I would call it fake fullscreen. Because I've grown used to fullscreen meaning 'unaffected by other apps'. If I wanted fullscreen in a window, I'd want it in a visible window with parts of my desktop showing around it. But I don't.

Well-said.

BTW, Jaey, "Fake" Full-Screen is *NOT* a feature, it's a lame bug.

[goMac]

Even I, a mere mortal not worthy of seeing the code known as "Halo" know how to take control of the screen under Cocoa...

Its not that hard people!

[Truepop]

the way mac os x works, doesn't it still draw the windows behind the window on top even if the window takes up the screen? I see that as a waste of good processing power or nonetheless an annoyance.

I think in the next patch they need to take off require cd thing and fix this problem or at least make it an option deal. Most games allow windowed or full screen, just have halo offer windowed, max windowed, or full screen.

[mjankor]

Tulkas - The problem is that I use Expose and Halo with my Mouse buttons. I need to turn of that feature in Expose everytime I want to play Halo. I agree it's easy to go back to the game if you accidently hit an Expose key but my grenade button is my expose key.

goMac what are you on about???

Martin

[a2daj]

Originally posted by Steb Mad:


Well-said.

BTW, Jaey, "Fake" Full-Screen is *NOT* a feature, it's a lame bug.

You can blame the 'bug' on all the people that like to check their stupid email when playing games.

I agree that the uncaptured fullscreen sucks, but if it's the only reason not to buy a specific game, it's a really bad reason not to buy it. I have software that lets me configure my mouse buttons on a per app basis, so I'm never going to have to worry about Expose kicking in when I hit a mouse button.

[Steb Mad]

Originally posted by a2daj:
I agree that the uncaptured fullscreen sucks, but if it's the only reason not to buy a specific game, it's a really bad reason not to buy it. I have software that lets me configure my mouse buttons on a per app basis, so I'm never going to have to worry about Expose kicking in when I hit a mouse button.

Come on man, think realistically please. Most of them have no clue about installing mouse software in order to set mouse buttons on per app basis. Supposedly they accidentally clicked Expos� buttons, they'll say "What happened to my Halo!?!" and flood MacSoft Support Center with all sort of questions about Halo disappearing. They'll probably tell their families and friends that Halo is buggy and they shouldn't buy it (similar idea to Horsepoo!!!'s case here). Any smart businesses company would want to reduce confusion and bad word of mouth as much as possible.

"Window" Full-Screen is a bad move for both hardcore gamers and newbies.

[goMac]

Originally posted by mjankor:
goMac what are you on about???

Martin

I'm saying its pretty easy to code, I know the programmers who did the converstion are for more skilled than me, so its kind of odd.

[bewebste]

Originally posted by Truepop:
the way mac os x works, doesn't it still draw the windows behind the window on top even if the window takes up the screen? I see that as a waste of good processing power or nonetheless an annoyance.

I think in the next patch they need to take off require cd thing and fix this problem or at least make it an option deal. Most games allow windowed or full screen, just have halo offer windowed, max windowed, or full screen.

When drawing goes on in any of the other windows, that window's buffer will be updated with the new drawing, but since the window isn't visible, none of that will actually be flushed to the screen. From what I've seen, Halo's performance on the Mac seems to be pretty good, so I'd guess that when the window is taking up the whole screen, the video card can just draw its stuff directly to the screen without taking a performance hit. If you Expose or switch apps, of course, then the drawing will probably be slower, but then you're not playing the game, so it doesn't really matter.

[arekkusu]

(speaking as an OpenGL programmer:)

There are two performance hits from not capturing the display:

First, flushes require an offscreen-to-window blit, just like a normal window. This is slower than simply page flipping a real fullscreen context, although the overhead is pretty small compared to all of the pixel shader stuff Halo is doing.

Second, and much more important IMHO is that windowed GL contexts can't properly VBL sync in current versions of OS X with some hardware (Radeon 9600/9800) due to broken drivers. So even if you choose VBL sync (30 fps) it still doesn't sync and there is annoying tear. A real fullscreen context can properly sync.

Of course both of these problems are minor compared to iChat etc popping up during a firefight, again IMHO.

As usual, when there is a split opinion about "the game should capture the display!" vs "I want to check my email without quitting!" JUST LET THE USER CHOOSE IN THE PREFERENCES. It's one more checkbox.

[Truepop]

Originally posted by bewebste:
When drawing goes on in any of the other windows, that window's buffer will be updated with the new drawing, but since the window isn't visible, none of that will actually be flushed to the screen. From what I've seen, Halo's performance on the Mac seems to be pretty good, so I'd guess that when the window is taking up the whole screen, the video card can just draw its stuff directly to the screen without taking a performance hit. If you Expose or switch apps, of course, then the drawing will probably be slower, but then you're not playing the game, so it doesn't really matter.

Thank you. For the moment I have a 400MHz PowerBook so I don't know until I get a Power Mac G5 or iMac.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by a2daj:
[comments deleted]
I have software that lets me configure my mouse buttons on a per app basis, so I'm never going to have to worry about Expose kicking in when I hit a mouse button.

Which software do you use for per-app mouse configuration?

--DekuDekuplex

[Steb Mad]

MacSoft Customer Support said that "fake" full-screen is the most requested features by both hardcore gamers and newbies.

Hardcore players checking their emails during playing Halo? HAHAHAHAHAHA! How stupid can they be?

MacPlay, Blizzard, Feral Interactive, Asypr, OmniGroup, etc... NONE of them used "fake" full-screen because they're smart enough to add in Window Mode key combination instead of pile of steaming brown flavored shit-shaped mud "fakie" full-screen.

MacSoft =

[a2daj]

Westlake did the Halo port, who did several ports for Aspyr and have done some of the best porting jobs out there. I'm pretty sure it's not an issue of them not knowing anything but most likely a decision made by MacSoft or a consesus between developer and publisher that this would be the best solution, which I, and pretty much 99% of the vocal minority of Mac gamers that visit forums, agree is not a good solution. So thinking that the Mac Halo developers don't know enough programming to fully capture a screen is ridiculous.

Oh, and OmniGroup doesn't publish games, they just port(ed) them.

DekuDekuplex, I use USB Overdrive for handling my mouse configuration. It's shareware and the best $20 I've spent. The registered version only differs from the unregistered version in that it doesn't have the shareware reminder when you start the app up. Otherwise the unregistered version is fully functional.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by a2daj:
Westlake did the Halo port, who did several ports for Aspyr and have done some of the best porting jobs out there. I'm pretty sure it's not an issue of them not knowing anything but most likely a decision made by MacSoft or a consesus between developer and publisher that this would be the best solution, which I, and pretty much 99% of the vocal minority of Mac gamers that visit forums, agree is not a good solution. So thinking that the Mac Halo developers don't know enough programming to fully capture a screen is ridiculous.

Oh, and OmniGroup doesn't publish games, they just port(ed) them.

DekuDekuplex, I use USB Overdrive for handling my mouse configuration. It's shareware and the best $20 I've spent. The registered version only differs from the unregistered version in that it doesn't have the shareware reminder when you start the app up. Otherwise the unregistered version is fully functional.

Ahhh a2daj. I understand you're enamored with games and the companies behind them but defending every one of the game flaws and every company decisions will not help us gamers or them developers/porters/distributers.

Encouraging them like this will lead them to believe that fake fullscreen is great for everyone, thus making them lose myself as a customer and probably tons of hardcore gamers that most certainly don't check their e-mails or talk to friends on iChat while they're playing their game.

Please stop being the Developer/Porter Crusader out to defeat all that stand in your way whenever there is critisism.

I respect your opinion and the companies...but it doesn't mean I should shut my trap and like everything they put out. You may be comfortable with what I consider an average quality port but you consider excellent but please be aware that people have varying standards of quality.

Mac users are already paying more than PC users for games. This is fine, but I'd like to be able to think that some of that extra money I spent is going into the details of the port instead of just thinking the companies are trying to make up for the smaller market the Mac market is.

[a2daj]

I've never said I like the fake fullscreen. I'm not encouraging them to use it. In fact, I've mentioned that I dislike it. All I'm saying is that it's not due to Westlake's inability to program, which others are suggesting. As Steb Mad confirmed, it was an intentional design decision

Mac Halo was released for $50. Guess what the PC version was released at. We usually pay the same price as the PC users at the time the game is new on both platforms. Both Mac and PC publishers need to recoup as much money as possible for what they spent on dev costs. Then they can start dropping prices.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by a2daj:
[comments deleted]

DekuDekuplex, I use USB Overdrive for handling my mouse configuration. It's shareware and the best $20 I've spent. The registered version only differs from the unregistered version in that it doesn't have the shareware reminder when you start the app up. Otherwise the unregistered version is fully functional.

It's interesting that you should mention USB Overdrive, because there is actually a posting discussing how it corrupted Macally�� iShock II in Mac OS X 10.3 Panther��.

In addition, that site mentions an alternative to that mouse configuration application.

--DekuDekuplex

[a2daj]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
It's interesting that you should mention USB Overdrive, because there is actually a posting discussing how it corrupted Macally�� iShock II in Mac OS X 10.3 Panther��.

In addition, that site mentions an alternative to that mouse configuration application.

--DekuDekuplex

The alternative you're talking about is for gamepads. I never installed the macally drivers so I haven't had any issues with USB Overdrive conflicting with them. My mouse usage far outweighs my gamepad usage so I'm not to worried about macally's drivers. I also haven't run into any instance where I even need their drivers installed.

That link you provided to your own post had another link that went to these forums and apparently there was a recent driver update that may have fixed the macally drivers back in Dec.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...90#post1759690

[Horsepoo!!!]

I've been a bit harsh...if Barefeats is to be believed, the Mac version of Halo really outdoes the PC version in many areas. Although the is no real fullscreen option and although I have no idea how it'll run on my Dual 800 with Radeon 8500, I'm heading off to buy the game right now.

[lenox]

Doesn't anyone think it's funny that Q3 (which has gotta be one of the longest-lived games on os x, not to mention didn't require a panther update) has no expos� problems whatsoever?

Perhaps there was a reason for them to code the game like this...but I believe that games (especially FPS-style games) should 'steal' the use of all the available buttons on mice/gamepads/keyboards/whatever.

Then, this would not be a problem. Quake 3 does this well; it always has.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by lenox:
Doesn't anyone think it's funny that Q3 (which has gotta be one of the longest-lived games on os x, not to mention didn't require a panther update) has no expos� problems whatsoever?

That's because Quake 3 uses real full screen OpenGL, not OpenGL in-a-window that is the same size as the screen resolution. In fact, Halo is the only game I have seen that is affected by Expos�.

I didn't like it at first either, but I've actually been taking advantage of it to chat on iChat when playing (if I get a message in game, I command tab over when I die, read and respond, then tab back). Kinda cool.

Ideally I could have command-tab without Expos�, but it's not that bad. I keep meaning to install the IntelliMouse drivers for my MS mouse and disable expose for Halo.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
That's because Quake 3 uses real full screen OpenGL, not OpenGL in-a-window that is the same size as the screen resolution. In fact, Halo is the only game I have seen that is affected by Expos�.

I didn't like it at first either, but I've actually been taking advantage of it to chat on iChat when playing (if I get a message in game, I command tab over when I die, read and respond, then tab back). Kinda cool.

Ideally I could have command-tab without Expos�, but it's not that bad. I keep meaning to install the IntelliMouse drivers for my MS mouse and disable expose for Halo.

I finally bought the game...performance isn't all that good on my computer but I kinda was expecting that.

After one Expos� command, however, the game leaves a big fat pointer cursor on my screen.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
I finally bought the game...performance isn't all that good on my computer but I kinda was expecting that.

After one Expos� command, however, the game leaves a big fat pointer cursor on my screen.

I have a workaround for that: command-tab out, then command-tab back in. Problem solved.

I do agree that it's annoying.