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brutal · 09:45 AM

=== Release notes ===

This release is unfinished and unsupported beta-quality software. It cannot be registered, but will not expire. This release requires Mac OS X 10.1 or later. We recommend always using the latest operating system updates. Please use the latest release of Macromedia Flash.

=== Planned Enhancements for 7.50 Final ===

* Support for Unicode keyboard layouts
* Synchronization with Address book
* Support for Liveconnect

=== Major New Features ===

* Presto! *
This release sports Opera 7's Presto rendering engine. The rendering engine was rebuilt from scratch for blazing fast speed, improved standards support, and bidirectional text display. Check out our documentation for an overview of our standards support.

* Opera Mail *

Also in this release is Opera Mail (the e-mail client formerly known as M2), Opera's revolutionary e-mail, news, and newsfeed client. This is the first time Opera for Mac includes the ability to manage your personal messages. With Opera Mail, Opera takes the work out of organizing your messages, making it easier to find and deal with the messages that matter to you most.

* Opera Chat *

Opera now has experimental support for IRC, our first protocol back-end for Chat. You can easily setup a chat account Chat menu by selecting "New account". Chat channel and server information is shown in the Chat panel. Additionally, you can use Chat > List rooms (Cmd+Alt+J) to list available channels once you've connected to a server. To aid in testing and to give Opera enthusiasts a place to hang out, we have setup our own IRC network: OperaNet. There are currently two servers: irc.opera.com and irc.se.opera.com.

* Mac OS X Integration *

In addition to our integration with Keychain, information is imported from Address book to contacts for use with Opera Mail. Your Safari bookmarks will automatically be imported, too. With the Mac Native skin, Opera follows the look of your operating system. Opera 7 will tell you if you have a stored password for the current site by highlighting the username/password fields. Login information can then be retrieved by clicking the Wand icon or by using the keyboard shortcut Cmd+Enter.

A detailed list of changes is available at http://my.opera.com/forums/showthrea...threadid=47996

Download Link

solitere · Mar 17, 2004, 09:51 AM

First impressions:
Finally a decent Opera version out for the Mac!:
Seems fast too...

Espen Isaksen · Mar 17, 2004, 10:10 AM

You should test it against Safari at:
http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/

The results are quite suprising!

solitere · Mar 17, 2004, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Espen Isaksen:
You should test it against Safari at:
http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/

The results are quite suprising!

Absolutely!! Safari was dogslow compared to Opera!
Safari completed the test in 104 seconds on my Dual 800 and 19.78 seconds in Opera!

Very Nice!

chris v · 10:46 AM

1. The space-sucking sidebar is a bad, crazy kind of ugly.
2. It doesn't seem all that fast at all.
3. I get a BAD lag on the Bookmarks menu.
4. All the stock "computer Hardware" bookmarks point to Wintel sites.

5. There's a goddamn "Apply" button in prefs.

At least they're trying, but I can't see actually using this, myself.

CV

brutal · Mar 17, 2004, 10:34 AM

Well it IS still a preview release.

chris v · Mar 17, 2004, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by brutal:
Well it IS still a preview release.

True, that. i'm suffering from lack of sleep, I'm cranky and I just lashed out a software program that can't fight back.

CV

Turias · Mar 17, 2004, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by brutal:
Well it IS still a preview release.

It's been a preview release for half a decade.

mitchell_pgh · Mar 17, 2004, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Turias:
It's been a preview release for half a decade.

I don't see how/why people are going to pay for this stuff...

I'll always go with the free version.

Developer · 04:58 PM

What's much better is that it now doesn't require to be in it's own folder with extra stuff any more.

The interface is still the ugliest. "Standard Opera" looks a little bit better than "Macintosh Native", but then the buttons don't fit.

Still no Services support.

Buttons aren't throbbing in dialogs for some strange reason.

Context menus only open at mouse button release. That's annoying since I click, drag and select menus usually.

No drag & drop!

Double clicking opens the context menu. This is a joke.

It creates a folder "Opera Preferences" in ~/Library/PreferencePanes. That's wrong.

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Mar 17, 2004, 01:30 PM

So how ugly is it?

Espen Isaksen · Mar 17, 2004, 01:50 PM

This is what it looks like.

Picture of Opera

However it says on the Opera forums that the buttons etc are going to be changed.

Turias · Mar 17, 2004, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by solitere:
Absolutely!! Safari was dogslow compared to Opera!
Safari completed the test in 104 seconds on my Dual 800 and 19.78 seconds in Opera!

Very Nice!

If all I cared about was speed I would use telnet and type GET.

Developer · Mar 17, 2004, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Espen Isaksen:
However it says on the Opera forums that the buttons etc are going to be changed.

And that is badly needed. I'm sorry to have to say it, but your folks have zero artistic talent.

melman101 · Mar 17, 2004, 02:17 PM

I kind of like it. I always do it against my personal test

xbox.ign.com

Safari is mad slow with that site for some reason. Opera much faster. I used firefox for a bit until i tried to print something that was a page or two, and it kept counting +100 pages. So I switched back to Safari. I'll give Opera a try.

Mel

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Mar 17, 2004, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Espen Isaksen:
This is what it looks like.

Picture of Opera

However it says on the Opera forums that the buttons etc are going to be changed.

Horrid, looks like a mix if safari, outlook express and Netscape.

Millennium · Mar 17, 2004, 02:47 PM

Call me back when they get over their inane fixation of rendering pixel measurements too small "to match the Windows size".

Espen Isaksen · Mar 17, 2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
And that is badly needed. I'm sorry to have to say it, but your folks have zero artistic talent.

Your folks? What do you mean?

I agree that it is not the pretties looking webbrowser around...

brutal · Mar 17, 2004, 04:30 PM

Well, since the 7.0 release, Opera has been VERY customizable, and it�s pretty easy to change the GUI completely.

ambush · Mar 17, 2004, 05:52 PM

*sigh* crashes on start

thePurpleGiant · Mar 17, 2004, 06:32 PM

I have to wonder. I love the fact that they are continuing development for the Mac - the more programs available the better IMO. But why on earth do they bother?

Surely they realise that:

a) 99% of people don't want to pay for a web browser
b) Safari, Mozilla, Firefox and Camino are all free, and all very good.
c) If people are going to pay, they will probably get OmniWeb since it really does have a lot of cool features, and feels OS X native.

Where do they think they fit in with that equation?

d) Opera has a fairly average interface, a decent amount of options, has ads unless you pay for it, and isn't as good as OmniWeb if you did want to pay for a browser.

Perhaps they would be better off focussing their efforts into a different app for OS X that is needed? It seems such a shame for them to spend their time making a browser that I doubt more than 20 people will actually use permanently.

Developer · Mar 17, 2004, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
But why on earth do they bother?

Because some people think Safari isn't good enough.

Originally posted by Echnin:
Please tell me where Opera's interface can be found in Safari, and I might think Safari can compete with Opera.

Safari is just... Not as good. :-\ Sure, it's a nice web browser, certainly better than MSIE... But it's not good enough for a longtime Opera user.

thePurpleGiant · Mar 17, 2004, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
Because some people think Safari isn't good enough.

True, but how about Mozilla, Firefox or Camino? Or even OmniWeb?

Maybe I am missing the point then, but what does Opera have over Mozilla? (except the zoom on the page, that is cool)

gorickey · Mar 17, 2004, 06:54 PM

Well, hmm...Safari, Camino, FireFox, OmniWeb v5, and Mozilla....do I really need Opera at this point in the game?

Nope.

F_Elz · Mar 17, 2004, 07:06 PM

Finally... this is great.

Moonray · Mar 17, 2004, 08:11 PM

I don't see how a browser that costs money or is alternatively bugging me with a permanently visible flashing banner could be an alternative.

-

udaman · Mar 17, 2004, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
*sigh* crashes on start

I'll 3rd this comment made by others. "unexpectedly quit" as disk access goes on furiously the desktop Opera icon, after being expanded 1-2 yr. old Stuffit Expander from the Opera.1701.en.tar file which appears to be gz (compressed?)...complete no go.

Geez, you would pay for this product and then get no friggin customer support; now there's one heck of a business model! Damn, I'll have to invest in this IPO; seems like a proven track record/way to do business!

Got you register on their customer support forums site just so you can PM these ppl. Sent 2 e-mails to 'feedback'(which they tell you is NOT for browser CS) and to the 'report bugs' link as stated in the announcement post on their forums. But neither of these have replied in 8hours. They can't even supply an alternative link to try, in a different download format. Wow, I'm impressed! In a negative way.

I just downloaded again, from the link here(same link as on the Opera forums) and got the same "The application Opera has unexpectedly quit"...blazing speed, spinning beachball only takes 5 seconds at most!!! Woohoo.

ambush · Mar 17, 2004, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Well, hmm...Safari, Camino, FireFox, OmniWeb v5, and Mozilla....do I really need Opera at this point in the game?

Nope.

Sadly, you are right.

There's no way I'm going to investigate why it crashes when I already have the best browser (firefoxx) sitting on my dock

F_Elz · Mar 17, 2004, 08:56 PM

They are really busy >_>.

Colonel Panic · Mar 17, 2004, 10:28 PM

wow. never been an opera fan, i for one think this is a very good browser.

a) its fast! renders quickly, scrolls smoothly.

b) i have no issues with the interface. sidebar can be moved, gotten rid of, or turned into a tab (like safari's bookmarks). all in it is very functional.

c) i have not yet hit a site that tripped it up.

very good beta.

malemutekid · Mar 18, 2004, 01:20 AM

I like it, but I still don't know if I will use it over Safari.

F_Elz · Mar 18, 2004, 01:24 AM

This browser is fast and smooth... 2 small crashes. I hope it gets better, I'd pay for it and Omniweb :o

gpeden · Mar 18, 2004, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
True, but how about Mozilla, Firefox or Camino? Or even OmniWeb?

Maybe I am missing the point then, but what does Opera have over Mozilla? (except the zoom on the page, that is cool)

Well, i use it to go to my chatroom because nothing else worked....

http://www.logoheli.com/forum/phpMyChat.php3

I'd be really interested if anyone can login with their browser, post a test message and see a page of the 25 previous posts above it, WITHOUT the darn thing flashing on and off with a stupid fast refresh rate or as is the case with iCab, only the last line being visible....

Cheers!

Glen

brutal · Mar 18, 2004, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Well, hmm...Safari, Camino, FireFox, OmniWeb v5, and Mozilla....do I really need Opera at this point in the game?

Nope.

So.. Is there any reason why anyone should care about your needs?

I think it's cool that there is yet another browser on OSX. No that I'll use it, but it's great to know that I have options.

Anand · Mar 18, 2004, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Espen Isaksen:
You should test it against Safari at:
http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/

The results are quite suprising!

Safari runs the test in 98.9 seconds

Camino does it in 16.89 seconds

Opera does it in 14 seconds.

This is on a 1.6 Ghz G5 with 1 gig ram and a T1 line.

Anand · Mar 18, 2004, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by Anand:
Safari runs the test in 98.9 seconds

Camino does it in 16.89 seconds

Opera does it in 14 seconds.

This is on a 1.6 Ghz G5 with 1 gig ram and a T1 line.

I will add that subjectively, camino feels slightly faster than safari with Opera feeling the slowest.

Moonray · Mar 18, 2004, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Espen Isaksen:
You should test it against Safari at:
http://www.24fun.com/downloadcenter/benchjs/

The results are quite suprising!

It should be noted that this test does not measure the overall browser performance but the JavaScript speed.

-

Mr Scruff · Mar 18, 2004, 05:58 PM

The good:

- Seems very fast - possibly the most responsive browser I've used on a Mac, and the first Opera version that feels on a par with the Windows one.

- Tons of options make you realise what you're missing from Safari (and Firefox). This is a power user browser.

- Interface is not that intrusive, even with the ad bar (not that I'd use an advertising sponsored browser - I haven't got the screen estate on my iBook).

The bad:

- Could do with having the default setup being a bit more Mac-like. I've had to do a fair bit of customisation to set things how I like them, and it's still not quite there. At least the options are available though.

- Not much use of system api's in there. Things like non-standard font panels etc...

The ugly:

- Mac style interface looks more like a skin (in the same vein as Firefox) than a native Mac app. I hate this.

Overall though, this is the first version of Opera on the Mac where I've actually felt as though they were competing.

F_Elz · Mar 18, 2004, 07:16 PM

They said they'll make it more mac like and use native widgets in the final... I don't mind the non native look though...

[APi]TheMan · Mar 18, 2004, 11:25 PM

I didn't quite understand the interface... There are no tabs, yet they have a seemingly less intuitive feature than multiple windows. Whose idea was it to put windows in a "background window" that you can't see or manipulate other than a key command or the window menu? Implement tabs, k thx.

Also, I can't help but wonder how effective charging for a "pro" version is these days what with Safari, Firefox, Camino, Mozilla, and Netscape all being free...

Poor Opera.

F_Elz · Mar 19, 2004, 02:03 AM

Opera has tabs "pages"

You can drag the pages too, the interface is fully customizable... but i guess you haven't played around w/ it. I don't care I love it.

Adam Betts · Mar 19, 2004, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by F_Elz:
Various posts in this thread...

Do you work for Opera? Just wondering..

F_Elz · Mar 19, 2004, 02:36 AM

No I don't work for Opera, I however will work on the Spanish Translation for it. I also did not say that, so the quote does nothing.

Mr Scruff · Mar 19, 2004, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
I didn't quite understand the interface... There are no tabs, yet they have a seemingly less intuitive feature than multiple windows. Whose idea was it to put windows in a "background window" that you can't see or manipulate other than a key command or the window menu? Implement tabs, k thx.

Also, I can't help but wonder how effective charging for a "pro" version is these days what with Safari, Firefox, Camino, Mozilla, and Netscape all being free...

Poor Opera.

Tabs and pretty much anything else you want are there, it just takes some digging. Unfortunately they are mock old style native tabs, and look fugly.

F_Elz · Mar 19, 2004, 06:37 AM

You can try the OSX native theme...

Developer · Mar 19, 2004, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by F_Elz:
You can try the OSX native theme...

Aqua is more than pasting the right pictures on controls.

pliny · Mar 19, 2004, 08:26 AM

The browser is a big improvement over their earlier efforts, so let's give credit where credit is due. They still have some work to do on the UI, but they're moving in the right direction overall. The browser is quick and very responsive. They are clearly bringing their experience with the windows versions to bear on their Mac design, but the more they work on the Mac version and get feedback, the more they'll learn.

Didn't opera just go public?

[APi]TheMan · Mar 19, 2004, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Mr Scruff:
Tabs and pretty much anything else you want are there, it just takes some digging. Unfortunately they are mock old style native tabs, and look fugly.

I stand corrected. But I don't think I could give up the latest Firefox nightly... I love the way this thing feels.

Mr Scruff · Mar 19, 2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
I stand corrected. But I don't think I could give up the latest Firefox nightly... I love the way this thing feels.

Well it's good that the Mac has become the most fertile platform for browser choice now. There are loads of high quality browsers available to pick from (Safari, Firebird, Omniweb, Opera, Camino, IE, Mozilla) where choice was pretty limited before.

Personally I'm sticking with Safari, but I wouldn't be averse to switching to a power user browser once one of them can match the speed and slick feature execution.

BZ · Mar 20, 2004, 08:42 AM

Not bad... (posting from Opera 7.5.0)

Seems fast, but no faster than Safari or Mozilla. Maybe a bit better with caching.

The text in this box is very greyed out (and no spell checking).

Some of the menus (like bookmarks) seem very very slow to respond.

I really like the popup status bar at the bottom, it gives a lot of information (like time) which I would like to see in OW 5.0 or Safari.

BZ