[NYCFarmboy]

I have a 500 mhz G3 ibook which has a 12" LCD screen that is bright and visible with no ghosting.

2 days ago I purchased a 12" 1.3 G4 Powebook which has a much lower quality LCD screen that you have to look at from a exact angle or else the image is distorted severely.


(the new powerbook is on the right with the distorted screen)

So today I went to the Apple store in Soho (NYC) and carefully examined the new ibooks and noted they had the same lower quality screen that is on my new powerbook.

My Question..when did Apple lower the LCD specs on the 12" models?

I like my new powerbook, dont' get me wrong, but am very dissapointed with the poor quality LCD compared to my nearly 3 year old ibook!

[Dimitri]

Would've been nicer if your picture could have shown the 2 screens from the same angle, not the newer one at twice the angle (as shown). Also, viewing angle can be affected by contrast and brightness. Are they calibrated the same. Viewing angle is not the ultimate measure of quality, either. However, it is disappointing if the newer screens have less viewing angle.

[pat++]

This report actually contradicts a previous post I saw on the PowerBook forum stating that the new 12" PowerBook has a new screen which is *better* than the iBook (the previous 12" PowerBook was using the same screen as the the iBook). And btw, the screen of my brother's 700mhz iBook is *much* better (contrast, brightness) than my original 500mhz iBook.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by Dimitri:
Would've been nicer if your picture could have shown the 2 screens from the same angle, not the newer one at twice the angle (as shown). Also, viewing angle can be affected by contrast and brightness. Are they calibrated the same. Viewing angle is not the ultimate measure of quality, either. However, it is disappointing if the newer screens have less viewing angle.

I've went thru the calibration using "SuperCal" a specific LCD color calibration application, but the viewing angle is not nearly as nice as my old ibook.

The new powerbook screen is slightly brighter, but the depth is just not there.

[BobVB]

Well I just compared my original 500 mHz iBook with my new 1 GHz G4 replacement and I can't duplicate your complaint. The new one is about 50% brighter with better white than the original and both have good view at 45� off center, further if you aren't too picky about brightness.

[NYCFarmboy]

could the ghosting on the screen be something on the screen that will wear off the outer screen over time?

[CeRtiFiedSkitZo]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I have a 500 mhz G3 ibook which has a 12" LCD screen that is bright and visible with no ghosting.

2 days ago I purchased a 12" 1.3 G4 Powebook which has a much lower quality LCD screen that you have to look at from a exact angle or else the image is distorted severely.


(the new powerbook is on the right with the distorted screen)

So today I went to the Apple store in Soho (NYC) and carefully examined the new ibooks and noted they had the same lower quality screen that is on my new powerbook.

My Question..when did Apple lower the LCD specs on the 12" models?

I like my new powerbook, dont' get me wrong, but am very dissapointed with the poor quality LCD compared to my nearly 3 year old ibook!

Try resetting the some of the display settings. When I first recieved my ibook the display killed my eyes and I resett the settings to sRGB Profie.

[Mallrat]

Originally posted by CeRtiFiedSkitZo:
Try resetting the some of the display settings. When I first recieved my ibook the display killed my eyes and I resett the settings to sRGB Profie.

I own a 500G3 ibook and I love it. Only problem is it's been acting funny for the past year or so... I see the colorful ball of death much more often and I have to restart at least once a day... but it still works. I love the keyboard and the look of it.

I want a new mac, and would prefer a notebook, but I agree with the first post. The build quality of the ibooks is just not as good as it was.

I feel that the ibook was hurt as soon as the 12 inch powerbook G4 came out. Apple had to made the ibook look worse.

I unlike most, don't like the new ibook keyboard as much as the older ones. I like the more squishly, easy to push keys. I feel the news on are too stiff.

The powerbooks are better, but I think they are way over priced. At least, not worth it.

Having a 17inch powerbook seems stupid as it's not really portable and for that money you can get a nice G5 setup and buy a cheap laptop on ebay.

Everytime I want to buy a new computer, I'm realize that I haven't been in love with an Apple computer since the first ibook and Ti.

Hopefully they will redesign the ibook to make me drool again.

I just hope my G3 ibook can hold out that long...

[escher]

This is a cross post form the 12" iBook on my desk? thread. But I think it applies here as well.

I suspect that Apple sources its 12" LCD panels from wherever it can get them cheapest, while meeting its minimum specifications. Over the 3 years that they've sold 12" 1024x768 iBooks and PowerBooks, there have probably been many different sources. I would think that any improvements or decreases in LCD quality between various 12" iBooks and PowerBooks would have to do with a change in source, rather than an intentional feature up- or downgrade (at least with the standard aspect 12" screens, which are a commodity product).

Just like the hard disk drives (IBM/Hitachi, Fujitsu, etc.), optical drives (Matsushita/Panasonic, Sony, etc.), and memory are procured from many different manufacturers, so are LCD panels. Quality will vary. Sometimes to our benefit, sometimes to our detriment.

Still, you'd think that even the cheapest crappiest 12" screens produced today would be better than those made 3 years ago.

I will still upgrade my iBook/500 to a Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook without any hesitation. But an even crappier screen than I already have will certainly be a bit of a damper.

Escher

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by Mallrat:
I own a 500G3 ibook and I love it. Only problem is it's been acting funny for the past year or so... I see the colorful ball of death much more often and I have to restart at least once a day... but it still works. I love the keyboard and the look of it.

I want a new mac, and would prefer a notebook, but I agree with the first post. The build quality of the ibooks is just not as good as it was.

I feel that the ibook was hurt as soon as the 12 inch powerbook G4 came out. Apple had to made the ibook look worse.

I unlike most, don't like the new ibook keyboard as much as the older ones. I like the more squishly, easy to push keys. I feel the news on are too stiff.

The powerbooks are better, but I think they are way over priced. At least, not worth it.

Having a 17inch powerbook seems stupid as it's not really portable and for that money you can get a nice G5 setup and buy a cheap laptop on ebay.

Everytime I want to buy a new computer, I'm realize that I haven't been in love with an Apple computer since the first ibook and Ti.

Hopefully they will redesign the ibook to make me drool again.

I just hope my G3 ibook can hold out that long...

I like the old spongey keyboard on the g3 500 ibook as well...but the keyboard on the new G4 powerbook is very nice. I like it a lot...very different, but VERY nice.

Are you running Panther on your 500? Mine runs great with Panther...with 381 megs of ram. I also run panther on a g3 300 mhz orange clamshell ibook..with 189 megs of ram...Panther makes a huge difference on the older g3 chipped laptops.. if you have not upgraded to Panther yet..do so..it will make a amazing difference for you.

Of course the G4 powerbook completely trounces my old ibook in terms of speed....I had to get the new powerbook for mobile DVD burning reasons and it does that perfectly.

Originally posted by escher:
This is a cross post form the 12" iBook on my desk? thread. But I think it applies here as well.

I suspect that Apple sources its 12" LCD panels from wherever it can get them cheapest, while meeting its minimum specifications. Over the 3 years that they've sold 12" 1024x768 iBooks and PowerBooks, there have probably been many different sources. I would think that any improvements or decreases in LCD quality between various 12" iBooks and PowerBooks would have to do with a change in source, rather than an intentional feature up- or downgrade (at least with the standard aspect 12" screens, which are a commodity product).

Just like the hard disk drives (IBM/Hitachi, Fujitsu, etc.), optical drives (Matsushita/Panasonic, Sony, etc.), and memory are procured from many different manufacturers, so are LCD panels. Quality will vary. Sometimes to our benefit, sometimes to our detriment.

Still, you'd think that even the cheapest crappiest 12" screens produced today would be better than those made 3 years ago.

I will still upgrade my iBook/500 to a Rev.C 12-inch PowerBook without any hesitation. But an even crappier screen than I already have will certainly be a bit of a damper.

Escher

Yup..I think I lucked out with the screen on my old 12" ibook.

[Link]

IIRC, apple uses 3 LCD manufacturers, not to mention there are probably different models in between,... this one dude said that:

Samsung = best screens
LG = worst

I know there's a 3rd but I can't remember who.. sharp maybe?

Either way there are various model numbers. In that case I'd call apple and tell them the LCD on your powerbook looks worse than the one on your 3 year old ibook. It sounds like they put a REALLY old LCD in it

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by Link:
IIRC, apple uses 3 LCD manufacturers, not to mention there are probably different models in between,... this one dude said that:

Samsung = best screens
LG = worst

I know there's a 3rd but I can't remember who.. sharp maybe?

Either way there are various model numbers. In that case I'd call apple and tell them the LCD on your powerbook looks worse than the one on your 3 year old ibook. It sounds like they put a REALLY old LCD in it

Is there a easy way of telling who the manufacturer of the LCD is on your laptop without having to tear it apart?

[Link]

Unfortunately, no. I don't think system profiler nor any other app would mention.

[escher]

I'm just brainstorming, but I'd be willing to pay at least $200 to get a 12" screen that is the same quality as the 15" PB in my 12-incher. Unfortunately, I imagine an LCD swap would be significantly more tricky than swapping an optical or HDD. I've never actually seen an "X-Brite" LCD in a Wintel laptop. But somebody with proper funding might even disect one of those for an organ donation to a 12-inch PowerBook.

You say this isn't the Mac Modification forum? Oops.

Escher

[Spliff]

NYCFarmboy,

I don't know if you saw my reply in another thread, but I'll mention here again. I was looking at some PC laptops out of curiousity and I saw two laptops (a Sony Vaio and a Certified Data) with displays that exhibited the same magenta tint and poor viewing angle as the display on your 12" Powerbook.

I wouldn't be surprised if both those displays were manufactured by the same company that made your Powerbook's display.

[StiZeven]

The 12" LCDs on the VAIO (505s) are just as bad as Apple's current 12" offerings. They probably order from the same vendor(s). Sometimes you're lucky and get a good one if they order from more than one vendor.

Toshiba and IBM seem to use higher quality vendors for their 12" LCD - but even they aren't gorgeous as say the larger LCD models (as seen in various Apple, Dell, Sony, etc.) It's almost as if there is no 'gorgeous' 12" LCD out there. Can't be a restriction on the size because Sony and Fujitsu use beautiful, rich, sharp 10.6" LCDs in the ultra-portables that have excellent viewing angles and smooth sharp text (something Apple is yet to do right) and deep well saturated colors.

So, I think it all comes down to being cheap and skimping on the LCD. I don't know why PC Makers (Apple included) feel the need to make their 12" Models have less options, features and less quality parts (usually it's the LCD and GPU).

[Michel_80]

There are no good 12" inch screens on any laptop.

The amazing screens come in the form of xbrite in 15-16 screens (4:3).

But as far as 12" go, it is just based on luck what screen you get.

[StiZeven]

They aren't all bad - IBM uses nice 12" LCDs in their ThinkPad (X31, X40) - I believe they are Samsung. Toshiba's R100 also has a very nice and rich 12" LCD as well. So they are out there, and these are noticeably nicer than most other 12" displays out there including all of Apple's.

Sony's Xbrite and Fujitsu's CrystalView LCDs are simply stunning with excellent viewing angles, silky smooth sharp text and deep color and contrast, but they are not limited to large displays only. As I mentioned above, they both come in tiny 10.6" LCDs as well as 15-16" ones. HP is also jumping on this LCD technology for some of their notebook models.

Personally, I would have thought Apple would want to stand out like the big players and offer a gorgeous LCD in their version of the 'Ultra Portable'. Perhaps they will catch on next revision.

[nJm]

I've had my 12" 1ghz iBook for about a week now. I would say that the screen can look fantastic as long as you have the viewing angle perfect (and have calibrated it, the Mac OS gamma settings are too bright).

Is it normal for it to be so picky with viewing angles? I'm talking about verticle, not horizontal. I have to push the screen back on quite an angle to get good contrast/brightness. Colours look good though. Only other issue is that it seems to have a fairly low response rate. When scrolling quickly in Safari the text blurs a bit. This is my first LCD though, so that might be normal.

[ginoledesma]

LG has a sordid reputation when it comes to producing displays. My Apple Studio Display 17" CRT crapped out because of a flyback/video board problem. And it was nowhere near the quality/durability of the Trinitrons of old.

As for the LCD display, I've had to tweak using SuperCal really really carefully to get it to my tastes. Just using ColorSync tended to give me "washed out" images. However, I prefer to have my screens a little bit dimmer than most people like, since I find that having the screen brightness at more than half its setting can hurt my eyes.

Since the iBook G4/800 is my first laptop, I'm not really an authority on screen quality, but what I would like is for Apple to support higher than 1024x768 resolutions. :-/ Most PCs have had support for this for ages!

[nJm]

That annoyed me too with my iBook G4, as I use a 17" CRT on it and was used to running 1152x864 or whatever that resolution is in Windows.

Then one of my friends installed the screen-spanning hack thing. Now I am using 1280x960 at 85hz, and have the dock/menu bar dragged over to the external screen. I find this great as I can have iTunes and ICQ on the iBook's LCD and everything else on my CRT.