[Arcane Rider]

im tired of this crap. this is what i feedbacked to apple:


app switching no longer in the dock. BAD FREAKIN IDEA. now i have more clutter instead of a clean switch. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING. when my mouse is in the area the app switching bar comes up i keep selecting the wrong app. remind me of windows thanks, thats just the OS ive always wanted to use.

metalized finder. again BAD FREAKIN IDEA. at least give the option to set it jag style. annoying cluttering and like hell if im using the toolbarless mode.

crashing. panther 10.3.3 crashes ALL THE TIME. need downgrade to 10.3.2 or a 10.3.4 addressing two above complaints + stability.

lots of people agree with me on these points, they were lame and make me consider going back to jag. pluses on panther = faster and expose, and i could care less about expose the only reason im using panther is because its fast enough and im too lazy to downgrade to jag again.

another bug that needs to be addressed, ichat logs out in user switching, and since i use user switching a lot lately when im switching between it and my main user account, ichat logs out and in too fast causing AIM to block my account for like 15 or 20 minutes. ichat needs to stay logged in during switching, if a user feels there is a security risk they can manually off it before switching.


if anyone knows how to fix any of this crap please let me know. also is there a downgrade to 10.3.2? any way to delete safari and not lose the ability to change prefs?

oh, i forgot to add to apple: having safari handle prefs for default browser, another bad freakin idea, why cant they just leave internet prefs in the SYSTEM PREFS. its crap forcing users to use safari, most mac users strayed from windows for these very reasons, now that are plaguing panther. when will apple get a clue. id hate to have to use linux and have a mac and a pc box just because both have gone to hell but i still need them for certain apps. ugh.

[::maroma::]

Well I hope you didn't submit your issues to Apple like you stated them here. The things you are complaining about are pure opinion. I happen to disagree with you on all points. Here's to hoping Apple doesn't change these things.

[ender2002]

I agree on the crashing. Panther crashes WAAAAAYYY too much. Fix it Apple.

[OptimusG4]

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Well I hope you didn't submit your issues to Apple like you stated them here. The things you are complaining about are pure opinion. I happen to disagree with you on all points. Here's to hoping Apple doesn't change these things.

No kidding. I like the command-tab switcher compared to just using the Dock. A Metal Finder? Remove the toolbar and deal with Aqua. And for crashing? Well its not like Apple can help without submitting a crash report.

[osxisfun]

if someone ALL-CAPPED me i don't think i would be that inclined to do anything about their problem.

Just food for thought.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Arcane Rider:
im tired of this crap. this is what i feedbacked to apple:

app switching no longer in the dock. BAD FREAKIN IDEA. now i have more clutter instead of a clean switch. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING. when my mouse is in the area the app switching bar comes up i keep selecting the wrong app. remind me of windows thanks, thats just the OS ive always wanted to use.

What are you referring to? Command-Tab switching? Using the dock to switch has been the way it is now since public beta.

metalized finder. again BAD FREAKIN IDEA. at least give the option to set it jag style. annoying cluttering and like hell if im using the toolbarless mode.

Doesn't bother me. But they could at least give people the option of going Aqua and still keep the toolbars.

crashing. panther 10.3.3 crashes ALL THE TIME. need downgrade to 10.3.2 or a 10.3.4 addressing two above complaints + stability.

Need more information. Under what circumstances are you getting crashes? Is it the whole OS "crashing" or just certain applications? Is the crash reproducible? What machine are you using?

I have yet to have Panther (even 10.3.3) "crash" on me. I've seen a few (poorly written) applications crash.

Definitely a variable issue for people.

lots of people agree with me on these points, they were lame and make me consider going back to jag. pluses on panther = faster and expose, and i could care less about expose the only reason im using panther is because its fast enough and im too lazy to downgrade to jag again.

I've never heard people complain about the application switching thing. People will always complain about brushed metal. Crashing is multifactorial, and needs more information before reporting a "bug." (i.e. just saying "Fix the crashing in Panther" won't get anything done, because they will never be able to fix what they can't reproduce. But if you say, "Every time I start iChat with iTunes playing in the background and then click on iTunes to bring it to the front, and click on the Pause button, the computer gives me a beachball and then 10 seconds later I'm unable to do anything but move the mouse and I have to restart the computer," then you're giving them the information they need to reproduce and track down a specific bug. "Crashing" is not just a "single bug").

if anyone knows how to fix any of this crap please let me know. also is there a downgrade to 10.3.2? any way to delete safari and not lose the ability to change prefs?

Sure, you can downgrade. You have to reinstall from scratch, and hope you saved the 10.3.2 updater. Why delete Safari? There may be third party applications to do this.

oh, i forgot to add to apple: having safari handle prefs for default browser, another bad freakin idea, why cant they just leave internet prefs in the SYSTEM PREFS. its crap forcing users to use safari, most mac users strayed from windows for these very reasons, now that are plaguing panther. when will apple get a clue. id hate to have to use linux and have a mac and a pc box just because both have gone to hell but i still need them for certain apps. ugh.

How is using Safari to set the default browser forcing you to use it? You just "set it and forget it." Safari, unlike IE on Windows, does NOT automatically change the default every time it is run.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by ender2002:
I agree on the crashing. Panther crashes WAAAAAYYY too much. Fix it Apple.

If Panther is crashing on you, it is IMHO a hardware problem. Being a sys admin, and working with many OS X 10.3 Macs, I recently polled the users about stability and not a single one of them has crashed. None of my Macs I use here at work, or at home have suffered a single crash, even throughout the entire beta testing of Panther.
To the original poster, to downgrade, you will have to reinstall Jag to return to your state of non-metal bliss. But being too lazy as you stated, you have no choice. I see no correlation to Mac users leaving Windows because of the reasons you stated.

[kcmac]

by arcane rider "when my mouse is in the area the app switching bar comes up i keep selecting the wrong app"

Nice first post btw.

Don't know what you are talking about. Do you mean when you move your cursor to the dock area, when it is hidden, the dock then pops up? Then you select the wrong app?

Maybe you can lower the magnification of the app icons in the dock by going to the dock preferences. Then they won't be such moving targets.

If it's not that, I possibly got caught feeding a troll...

[ntsc]

hen my mouse is in the area the app switching bar comes up i keep selecting the wrong app.

then don't move your mouse when using the app switcher - retard!

[ryju]

How does the new Finder add more clutter having everything in one window now? The columned window in Jaguar took up more space anyways...

[gorickey]

Originally posted by ender2002:
I agree on the crashing. Panther crashes WAAAAAYYY too much. Fix it Apple.

Yeah, I have seen that before. You just need to fix the following error message:

Error # 1D10T-00000-UR-A-1D10T

I would try shutting down, and umm...keep it powered off.

[Horsepoo!!!]

This thread is stupid.

I hate stupid threads.

This thread is stupid.

[moreno]

This thread is stupid.

I hate stupid threads.

This thread is stupid.

ALSO MAC FORUMS ARE STUPID.
a bunch of religious-mac--fanatics like you behave like kids
just because one person state a complaint about Apple and their products or services and/or the way how their lies are caught in the pc market.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by moreno:
ALSO MAC FORUMS ARE STUPID.
a bunch of religious-mac--fanatics like you behave like kids
just because one person state a complaint about Apple and their products or services and/or the way how their lies are caught in the pc market.

so leave. and don't come back. problem solved. easy.

next!

[kaboom]

Originally posted by Arcane Rider:
3 panther 'features' that should be ditched

crashing. panther 10.3.3 crashes ALL THE TIME. need downgrade to 10.3.2 or a 10.3.4 addressing two above complaints + stability.

Wow. I didn't realize that Apple touted "crashing" as a Panther "feature".

10.3 seems to be a grab bag when it comes to crashing. I've installed 10.3 on 9 machines now and have had nearly zero problems (once in a while we have network issues but it never takes the machine down.) But I've heard people having major probs with it.

[philzilla]

i had a kernel panic today. aside from when i installed a Sonnet upgrade card a few weeks ago and had some problems (friggin' kext file!), that's the first i've had under 10.3, i think?

[RayX]

Originally posted by Arcane Rider:
oh, i forgot to add to apple: having safari handle prefs for default browser, another bad freakin idea, why cant they just leave internet prefs in the SYSTEM PREFS. its crap forcing users to use safari, most mac users strayed from windows for these very reasons, now that are plaguing panther. when will apple get a clue. id hate to have to use linux and have a mac and a pc box just because both have gone to hell but i still need them for certain apps. ugh.

I agree with you on this, something Microsoft would do. This is also the case with the default e-mail application, you need to go through Mail.app to change it. Though even MS have an application that does this from somewhere in Control Panel now.

The way Jag handled it was better, imo. Bring back the Internet pref!

[-Q-]

Originally posted by kcmac:
Don't know what you are talking about. Do you mean when you move your cursor to the dock area, when it is hidden, the dock then pops up? Then you select the wrong app?

No, he means that when he uses the application switcher (the one that pops up in the middle of the monitor with the frickin' huge icons) and has his mouse cursor in that area, the mouse takes over the selection process instead of the apple-tab key combo. This results in the wrong application being brought forward.

And I have to agree: that's hella annoying. I'd like to see that made an option. I like the apple-tab, but I want the mouse control to go away.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by -Q-:
No, he means that when he uses the application switcher (the one that pops up in the middle of the monitor with the frickin' huge icons) and has his mouse cursor in that area, the mouse takes over the selection process instead of the apple-tab key combo. This results in the wrong application being brought forward.

And I have to agree: that's hella annoying. I'd like to see that made an option. I like the apple-tab, but I want the mouse control to go away.

this only happens if you move your mouse. is it so hard to have your brain tell your right hand not to move while your left hand does something? i guess it must be for you, but it certainly isn't for me. when i need to use that feature, guess what: i move my right hand, and the mouse moves!

maybe you should look into getting some features of your brain fixed up first.

[Maflynn]

Being that the OP has only 1 post and its a Rant, its prime troll material.

My panther is very stable, I never heard of the app switcher issue he's mentioning.

To quote the OP, this thread is "BAD FREAKIN IDEA"

[zen jihad]

Command-Tab is great, especially since it's not just the visual cue in the dock now.

[Grrr]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
This thread is stupid.

I hate stupid threads.

This thread is stupid.

This coming from someone who has posted some of the most bandwidth wasting posts Macnn has ever known..
All you do is moan, which makes me wonder why you still bother with it. If you don't like it, P!ss off elsewhere.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by philzilla:
maybe you should look into getting some features of your brain fixed up first.

Wouldn't help as the problem is the muscle disability that leaves me with less than fine motor control in my hands. But I hope your penis got bigger by insulting me.

Occasionally useful? My ass.

<abuse link clicked>

[philzilla]

Originally posted by -Q-:
Wouldn't help as the problem is the muscle disability that leaves me with less than fine motor control in my hands. But I hope your penis got bigger by insulting me.

Occasionally useful? My ass.

<abuse link clicked>

given that you didn't mention anything of this muscle disability in your post, just how would you expect me, or anyone else, to know such a thing? telepathy?

my post pointed out common sense - don't do one thing while doing another - it wasn't insulting, and it certainly wasn't insulting to you directly. click the abuse link on this post too, if it makes you feel any better.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by philzilla:
my post pointed out common sense - don't do one thing while doing another - it wasn't insulting, and it certainly wasn't insulting to you directly. click the abuse link on this post too, if it makes you feel any better.

Let me refresh your memory:

Originally posted by philzilla:
maybe you should look into getting some features of your brain fixed up first.

How is that not insulting? Or maybe you should look into getting some feature of your brain fixed so you can understand such concepts.

And when you directly quote me, you're insulting me.

given that you didn't mention anything of this muscle disability in your post, just how would you expect me, or anyone else, to know such a thing? telepathy?

And I wouldn't expect you to know anything about it when I don't mention it. But I also don't expect to be attacked (well, now that I'm aware of your IQ range, I do expect it now) for relaying an opinion.

[ryju]

Originally posted by -Q-:
How is that not insulting? Or maybe you should look into getting some feature of your brain fixed so you can understand such concepts.

And when you directly quote me, you're insulting me.

It isn't doing any good being so sensitive about him "insulting" you.
The idea of the app switching popup is that you keep the mouse still as you're using it. Even if you are moving it it won't affect the app-switching unless the cursor moves over those big icons.

How hard is it to keep one hand still for 2 seconds?

[-Q-]

Originally posted by ryju:
It isn't doing any good being so sensitive about him "insulting" you.
The idea of the app switching popup is that you keep the mouse still as you're using it. Even if you are moving it it won't affect the app-switching unless the cursor moves over those big icons.

How hard is it to keep one hand still for 2 seconds?

It's not so much the insult as the motivation behind it. WTF did I do to him?

And it's difficult enough that I've noticed it's a problem. Forgive me for intruding into your delusion that OS X is perfect.

[redJag]

now now, children..

[Chris O'Brien]

Originally posted by -Q-:
It's not so much the insult as the motivation behind it. WTF did I do to him?

And it's difficult enough that I've noticed it's a problem. Forgive me for intruding into your delusion that OS X is perfect.

I don't really see it as an insult, and please don't take what I'm going to say as an insult..

Why can't you move the mouse away? I have no understanding of your muscle disability, but it would seem that general computer usage must be very difficult... Is typing difficult too? A gentle twitch of the mouse moves it out of range of the app switcher, so it begs the question as to what using the mouse in an effective way is like for you.

This is honest curiosity as to why you have a problem with the app switcher (and, presumably, from interacting with a computer) - I like the fact that the mouse works on it, since I usually have about 20 apps open and tabbing to one I haven't used in ages is a bit of an arse.

Once again - I'm being curious, not insulting

[madmacgames]

Originally posted by redJag:
now now, children..

Finally, a sensible post in this thread.

[madmacgames]

Originally posted by Black Book:
Why can't you move the mouse away?

You don't even have to move it away. You just have to stop moving it and Cmd + Tab takes over, no matter where the mouse is.

[Chris O'Brien]

Originally posted by madmacgames:
You don't even have to move it away. You just have to stop moving it and Cmd + Tab takes over, no matter where the mouse is.

Yes, but he appears to have a problem keeping the mouse still, hence my alternative.

[Big Mac]

If you doubt that there are problems with Panther stability, this thread will be a wake up call. I haven't experienced any stability problems myself, but many others have had serious issues with 10.3.

[york28]

Ahh, but my brain works fine an I occasionally have the same problem, but only really late at night. Just because one does not have an issue does not make it a non-existant.

Q's point it that one doesn't have to be an ass to get his point across, for example, "Try making sure that you just don't move you mouse while you're command-tabbing" instead of "get your brain fixed".

I'm all for clever jestful remarks, but "get your brain fixed"? I haven't heard that since gradeschool- in my opinion it wasn't worth acknowledging at all. But then the first post wasn't really either.....

[ryju]

Originally posted by -Q-:
It's not so much the insult as the motivation behind it. WTF did I do to him?

And it's difficult enough that I've noticed it's a problem. Forgive me for intruding into your delusion that OS X is perfect.

By all means I don't think OS X is perfect, no need to make such an assumption. If it's a problem for you the best thing to do is send a report to Apple, which maybe you've done already but it would probably be a good idea.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
If you doubt that there are problems with Panther stability, this thread will be a wake up call. I haven't experienced any stability problems myself, but many others have had serious issues with 10.3.

The issue with Panther stability is not in question. The method of reporting the problem to Apple is.

Simply sending feedback that says "Panther is unstable. Fix it!" does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help Apple fix the problems. Multiplying that by 1000 (or even 10000) people will not help either.

BUT, saying something like, "Panther crashes/locks up each time I try to do 'x' under the following 'y' conditions" gives Apple FAR more USEABLE information that they can use to actually fix the bug.

[slboett]

Why did MacNN choose to highlight this asinine thread?
Really, is this the leftovers from April Fools Day?

SB

[Sydney Tsai]

Originally posted by Arcane Rider:
im tired of this crap. this is what i feedbacked to apple:
oh, i forgot to add to apple: having safari handle prefs for default browser, another bad freakin idea, why cant they just leave internet prefs in the SYSTEM PREFS. its crap forcing users to use safari, most mac users strayed from windows for these very reasons, now that are plaguing panther. when will apple get a clue. id hate to have to use linux and have a mac and a pc box just because both have gone to hell but i still need them for certain apps. ugh.

There is a prefs option in the Safari and Camino, as well as FireFox...
It's up to you to go few more mouse clicks to set it up...

There is also MUCH more reason for people who swtich from Windows to Macintosh... However, There is also people quit mac coz they don't understand the use of HELP menu.

[blixa]

Originally posted by -Q-:
No, he means that when he uses the application switcher (the one that pops up in the middle of the monitor with the frickin' huge icons) and has his mouse cursor in that area, the mouse takes over the selection process instead of the apple-tab key combo. This results in the wrong application being brought forward.

And I have to agree: that's hella annoying. I'd like to see that made an option. I like the apple-tab, but I want the mouse control to go away.

Oh man, I love that you can select apps from the alt-tab switcher with the mouse. And that the icons are frickin' huge (and therefore easy to hit with the mouse). It pisses me off to no end that I can't use the mouse to select apps on the alt-tab window in Windows.

In fact, the OS X app switcher lets you select the apps with the mouse, the scrollwheel, and (IIRC, thought I may be wrong) with the arrow keys. It's _way_ _way_ better than the windows version (IMO, of course). I think it's just great.

[Horsepoo!!!]

I think we've all been victim of a post and run, boys and girls. And MacNN actually put a link to this thread. Holy **** balls.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by slboett:
Why did MacNN choose to highlight this asinine thread?
Really, is this the leftovers from April Fools Day?

SB

Arcane Rider registered to say that, and then they highlight the thread on the first page? sounds like an inside joke to me.

[jpellino]

this is mosstly opinion, tell apple what you want, but be nice(r) about it. do you really think the dev team is going to hop to because you used suggestive language?

there are 3rd party bits that can change things back to the ways you like them, particularly the metalized look back to aqua.

the speed increase in 10.3 is stunning on older machines - and i oversee 4 iBook 500s, 7 cubes, 14 bondi iMacs, and they all run panther like champs - 2 kernel panics since installing on all of them - and that was tracked down to 3rd party stuff and a bad MB.

you may want to look into your existing 3rd party things to see if there are conflicts.

[mowogg]

Wow,

That's a lot of problems. I am running Panther on both my home G5 and my work 12" PowerBook and neither ever crashes. I greatly prefer the look of Panther to the stripes of 10.1-10.2 and I like the app switcher (could those big app switcher icons look any better?) better than the dock switcher of Jag. If you want to switch apps in the dock why not just click the icons? You don't have tomouse click to switch between apps, just hit tab until you get the app highlighted.
I understand that all of these Panther issues are frustrating to you, but keep in mind that there are a lot of happy Jag users out there. Maybe you'd be happier using Jag?

[dru]

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
No kidding. I like the command-tab switcher compared to just using the Dock. A Metal Finder? Remove the toolbar and deal with Aqua. And for crashing? Well its not like Apple can help without submitting a crash report.

Uh... but some of us *WANT* the toolbar and Aqua like Jaguar had. Besides, if you've ever done what you suggest in Panther, you'll know that the disk info/status area doesn't redraw correctly and goes blank. Routinely. Reliably. This is unexceptable and hasn't been fixed in any of the 10.3.x releases. Lastly, you are forced to spawn a huge number of windows with the Aqua-look in Panther.

Reports have been submitted and yet Finder still crashes under moderate use of Icon Previews (thumbnails). This is routine behavior, reliable crashes. There are other problems with drag/drop visual feedback if you exceed a certain number of items... and on and on. The Panther Finder is broken and has always been broken. Worse, it seems like it will always *be* broken with a forced Tiger upgrade being the only "hope" of a resolution. I don't know why we put up with this abuse.

[iJed]

I think the current app switcher is one of the nicest features in Panther. Its great to use it in combination with the mouse to move really quickly across your applications. Every time I use windows at work I move the mouse across the alt-tabbed windows and am annoyed that it doesn't do anything.

[madgunde]

� PowerMac G4/400 upgraded to 1.4GHz
� iBook 700
� iBook 600
� PowerMac 7600/132 upgraded to a G3/350
� PowerMac 9600/200 upgraded to a G3/450

All of the above running Mac OS X 10.3.3 with next to zero system crashes (I install a lot of alpha/beta software, so I expect to see a crash every once in a blue moon). My question is did you do a clean install of 10.3 or upgrade from 10.2? I always clean install all major updates (10.2, 10.2, 10.3...) and generally that includes formatting the hard drive before installing. Mac OS X makes it real easy to restore your data and preferences from backup, it's worth taking the time once a year. You may find this takes care of all your issues. Also boot from the CD to repair permissions and check for errors every couple of months to keep things running smoothly.

Good luck with your issues. I for one have no gripes about Panther. After taking the time to get used to the changes Apple implements, I almost always find the changes are for the better.

Cheers,

Andy

Originally posted by dru:
Uh... but some of us *WANT* the toolbar and Aqua like Jaguar had. Besides, if you've ever done what you suggest in Panther, you'll know that the disk info/status area doesn't redraw correctly and goes blank. Routinely. Reliably. This is unexceptable and hasn't been fixed in any of the 10.3.x releases. Lastly, you are forced to spawn a huge number of windows with the Aqua-look in Panther.

Reports have been submitted and yet Finder still crashes under moderate use of Icon Previews (thumbnails). This is routine behavior, reliable crashes. There are other problems with drag/drop visual feedback if you exceed a certain number of items... and on and on. The Panther Finder is broken and has always been broken. Worse, it seems like it will always *be* broken with a forced Tiger upgrade being the only "hope" of a resolution. I don't know why we put up with this abuse.

[macbuddha1]

My 2 bits:

4 different machines in my possesion since 10.3.x. No crashes. Ever.


How do you define "crash" anyway? I work with pathetic windoze boxes often at work, ever seen one of them "crash"? You lose EVERYTHING. I don't think OS X's polite little messages even count as a crash, do they? Compare what you've got to the alternatives, and be happy.

[madmacgames]

Originally posted by dru:
Reports have been submitted and yet Finder still crashes under moderate use of Icon Previews (thumbnails).

I don't know what you consider "moderate" use, but I use the thumbnail view on all folders and have a number of folders with over 800 images in them, and the only thing I notice on my 12" powerbook is that on those directories with large amounts of image files, it is a tad slow at rendering all the thumbnails, but with over 800 thumbnails to render in each folder, that is to be expected.

[Cipher13]

Agreed on the first two points.

Panther, however, has been solid as a rock for me. App crashes, sure, but that's expected... the OS itself is unbreakable (~70 day uptime on the iBook at the moment, 10.3.3). The only problem I have are the kernel panics KisMAC causes (but thats a KisMAC problem).

[sushiism]

ditch brushed metal finder, its caused me to use osx the os9 way (no toolbar) which i like now so at least give me a way to set it so that the BM finder never appears just like a "spatial browsing" option

BRING BACK DISK COPY!
i hate messing about in disk utility to do disk image things