[doxtorRay]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
now that i saw what the alienware computers can do, im jelous!!!

I'm new around here, but shouldn't this be in a hardware forum? Even Alienware computers can't run OS X.

[Will McGoonigle]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
WINE works. You can run Windows apps if they were recompiled for PPC. Unfortunately, WINE Is Not an Emulator, so you can't run x86 Windows apps yet. They're working on porting QEMU to OS X, so they'll have a working x86 emulator. It's not working yet, though.

Anyway, no emulator, regardless of how good it is (and QEMU looks quite nice, if they can get it working on Darwin) is going to match the speed of a physical x86 machine. So emulation really isn't a good option for games. If you want to play PC games, you need a PC. Which is why you're better off just giving the G5 to me.

I was thinking of apps and thought Darwine was an emulator. Apparently not. It comes with a version of Minesweeper but that's all. I wanted to see if I could install Office and if it would be better than running the Mac version.

[bradoesch]

Originally posted by doxtorRay:
I'm new around here, but shouldn't this be in a hardware forum? Even Alienware computers can't run OS X.

Yah, Power Mac forum sounds good. Although it wouldn't be near the fun of stuffing this in the lounge. Heh.

[mitchell_pgh]

There is a large part of the Linux community that considers programs like WiNE hurtful.

It's going to stink when people say "we don't need to program for OS X, just write it for XP and it will work under WiNE"

[Will McGoonigle]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
There is a large part of the Linux community that considers programs like WiNE hurtful.

It's going to stink when people say "we don't need to program for OS X, just write it for XP and it will work under WiNE"

That won't happen anyway. For Linux it is important to have Windows apps running as they won't be ported anyway. OSX does have ports but some are a little shoddy so if Windows versions can be made to run without problem, apart from speed, then why not? I'd rather have Windows's version of Office than the Mac's which is slower than what Wine could probably run.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
There is a large part of the Linux community that considers programs like WiNE hurtful.

It's going to stink when people say "we don't need to program for OS X, just write it for XP and it will work under WiNE"

We already have Virtual PC, and this doesn't seem to have happened yet.

Even when Darwine is finished and is free, it's still going to sort of be a UNIX nerd thing which I doubt that the majority of people will know about.

[Will McGoonigle]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
We already have Virtual PC, and this doesn't seem to have happened yet.

Even when Darwine is finished and is free, it's still going to sort of be a UNIX nerd thing which I doubt that the majority of people will know about.

These Darwine guys are trying to get Windows apps to run with an Aqua interface. Now that is interesting.

[Oneota]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
one thing, you people said that mac has a better processor. why do you say this when alienware computers have 3.4 gzh and higher processors, and my mac has a crappy duel 1.8ghz?

Basically because the G5 does more work per processor cycle than Intel/AMD. As such, comparing raw numbers as a performance metric won't work.

There's more to a system's speed than the processor's clock speed.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Will McGoonigle:
I'd rather have Windows's version of Office than the Mac's which is slower than what Wine could probably run.

I think you're underestimating the sheer sluggishness of emulation.

[Spheric Harlot]

The clock cycle comparison is much like comparing RPMs on cars.

Is a bigger engine on lower RPMs not as good as a small engine on high RPMs?

For what purpose?

On what kind of an architecture? Truck, sports car, lawnmower, motorcycle, locomotive, sedan, station wagon, pick-up, or what?

What kind of gear-box does it interface with?

-s*

[sushiism]

bah ungrateful kid, your parents buy you a professional workstation and all you want to use it for is playing simplistic rubbish games. If your going to play computer games at least play some half decent ones none of this countershite garbage. Go and buy yourself a Gamecube, PS2 or dreamcast and play REAL games. Plus those alienwares and that other stupid company with the eagle logo are both utter monstrosities, why would I want such a horrible noisy fat and hot looking computer on my desk ugh awful.

[Lancer409]

I remember hearing somewhere that Alienware was going to announce something they designed/discovered that will boost their pc's about 60-65 percent over current pc's? Any Idea what that is?

as for him being a total ingrate, i agree .. I would appreciate a new pc .. any pc ... for free.

I had to shell out 1600 for my self built gaming pc and the funny thing is, at the time, it was atleast 89-92% of the performance of the alienware type rigs that cost about 5 grand. I had to buy my own monitor, my own keyboard mouse etc .. the funny thing is the details. I had to buy and assemble the desk for that thing, and even buy a powerstrip for it because we didnt have enough plugs.

WHAT THE FECK ... this guy gripes about a free computer?

then i bought a used crappy celeron 400 ultraportable pc and second harddrive (first failed) for a combined $480, and when that died, I spent 1,650 for the powerbook (included in that price is ram, case) ...

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?

when I buy a car .. I will be footing the bill for the car, the gas, the insurance .. GRAAAAH ... I pay for DSL ... augh .. dude .. seriously .. you are lucky this is an internet forum .. you are getting me seriously heated. Go thank your parents for having to deal with workplace bullsh_t, just so u can have something mac users are lusting over. Seriously.

Oh by the way, I'm 20, I had to work to pay for this, as well as school, as well as any kind of meaningful social life. oh .. and just to tug at your heartstrings, i'm also a disadvantaged minority living in an inner city neglected ethnic enclave neighborhood, feel my anger. hehe

bottom line, be thankful for what you get for free, but for most of us .. you got to pay for those nicer tidbits in life. ie 1.8 vs dualie G5'ers

[Will McGoonigle]

Originally posted by Lancer409:
I remember hearing somewhere that Alienware was going to announce something they designed/discovered that will boost their pc's about 60-65 percent over current pc's? Any Idea what that is?

A portable fridge the same size and shape as the Millenium Dome. Or a Dothan which is much cooler and smaller...and faster than a G5

[MacGorilla]

I remember hearing somewhere that Alienware was going to announce something they designed/discovered that will boost their pc's about 60-65 percent over current pc's? Any Idea what that is?

Flux Capacitor?

[tavilach]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
Flux Capacitor?

I think Microsoft is going to invent that . No, wait...they're going to steal it from the company that does.

[madmacgames]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
lol, nope, but they are super goood for gaming, the best that exists

you really don't know what you are talking about. When you get into high end systems and over 1.8/2Ghz Dual processors (speaking G5 side) or over 2.5Ghz single processor (just guesses there, but you know what I mean), for gaming, it is not the processor where you get better performance. The video card will give out long before the CPU in any of the high end systems on games... whether G5, Alienware, Falcon, etc - I don't care what the maker is or what the architecture (PPC or x86), the simple fact is, for gaming on those types of systems, the video card will be the bottleneck.

I dunno what video card comes standard in the G5, but put in one equivalent to the cards Alienware, Falcon, etc use (usually the current top-of-the-line card) and the G5 will be an equally awesome gaming machine.

[Link]

Let's just say that if WINE was largely responsible for any other OS' success besides Windows, by making Windows apps usable on other OSes, MS would basically be holding the whole OS industry by the balls.

And we all know that they wouldn't be nice about it.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Will McGoonigle:
I'd rather have Windows's version of Office than the Mac's which is slower than what Wine could probably run.

Originally posted by Will McGoonigle:
Or a Dothan which is much cooler and smaller...and faster than a G5

So, according to you we should rather emulate x86 Win apps on a G5 and take the immense performance hit while you also claim the G5 is inherently slower than the Dothan running said code native?

You're a real genius right?

Just to decrease your technical ignorance: The Dothan can't do SMP and it also won't run close to 3GHz when Apple ships the promised 970-successor this summer. Comparing the two directly doesn't make much sense at all...

[Link]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
one thing, you people said that mac has a better processor. why do you say this when alienware computers have 3.4 gzh and higher processors, and my mac has a crappy duel 1.8ghz?

You should be banninated from the internet.

1. Forgot to capitalize "one"
2. "you people said that mac has a better processor."
3. "why do you" <-- the why isn't capitalized.
4. "3.4 gzh" 3.4GHz.
5. "duel" DUEL?! I didn't know Macs were sold with processors that fight each other.

If your english skills are directly comparable to those of a 7 year old, you'll be treated like one. To begin with, speed isn't even directly related to the MHz/GHz speed of a computer, as if SGI and SUN machines played by that rule, they'd be damn slow. (SUN sells 400-700mhz machines that cost well over $30,000 and as low as about $1,000).

The most powerful computers in the industry are running 450mhz Power4 processors, and the 1ghz Alpha processor can outright whoop a Pentium 4 of any shape, size, or color.

If you're complaining then why did you let your parents buy you a computer, as from what I can tell, they even chose the machine for you. It's not their fault that you got a computer you don't want, it's your fault, and if they got it for you without you even asking you should be pretty damn honored that your parents treated you that way.

Man this is still the most absurd thing I've seen yet. Why don't you stop bitching and moaning that your parents didn't buy you a glorified game console and go get one with your own hard earned cash so we can stop listening to your nonsense crap.

Ironically, this is coming from someone who got a dual 800mhz g4 when he was 14. Yes my mom bought it for me, yes she anticipated it, and yes I asked for it. Unlike you however, I've actually appreaciated and treated it like gold.. unfortunately I couldn't always say the same about the repair shops it had to go off to

So what's your problem anyway? You know about as well as I do that video game systems start at $99, a computer powerful enough to play your stupid games costs about $400, and we're all happy. If you can't make use of a pro workstation that's your own problem...

First time I've ever heard of a kid being mad at his parents for getting him something better than he asked for.

Maybe the computer is too good for you, did you ever think of that?

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Link:
Let's just say that if WINE was largely responsible for any other OS' success besides Windows, by making Windows apps usable on other OSes, MS would basically be holding the whole OS industry by the balls.

They're not already?

[Will McGoonigle]

Originally posted by Simon:
So, according to you we should rather emulate x86 Win apps on a G5 and take the immense performance hit while you also claim the G5 is inherently slower than the Dothan running said code native?

Just to decrease your technical ignorance: The Dothan can't do SMP and it also won't run close to 3GHz when Apple ships the promised 970-successor this summer. Comparing the two directly doesn't make much sense at all...

Huh? Five errors of judgement above

-I didn't say we 'should rather' emulate x86 apps. I just like to tinker with hacks and emulators. You do what you want.

-Peformance hit? Maybe if we have to emulate a full x86 system including hardware and an OS. Wine doesn't do that so the hit isn't as big as VPC.

-Dual Core Dothans are already on the cards. A single core Dothan can already beat a G5 running 32 bit apps at the same clock speed.

-Fastest Dothan manufactured at the moment is 2.1Ghz. 2Ghz versions have been OCed and still run cool at 2.4Ghz. How close to your fictional 3Ghz G5 shall we get?

-3Ghz 970s? IBM is having enough problems manufacturing 2.2Ghz 970fx right now. And we are in the summer.

[Kristoff]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
my parants bought me a mac, they had no idea what they were doing.

Yeah they did. They probably wish you would do something useful and constructive with your time, but alas--you're only interested in electronic masturbation.

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by Kristoff:
Yeah they did. They probably wish you would do something useful and constructive with your time, but alas--you're only interested in electronic masturbation.

[goMac]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
We already have Virtual PC, and this doesn't seem to have happened yet.

Wanna bet? Working at a school district we have had several companies try to sell teachers software that runs on Mac OS X (with "under Virtual PC" in really tiny print).

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by goMac:
Wanna bet? Working at a school district we have had several companies try to sell teachers software that runs on Mac OS X (with "under Virtual PC" in really tiny print).

Does these idiotic companies make any software worth your attention, or is it just crap?

[Fonzie]

Why on earth did the poster not say to his parents when he first recieved the Mac - "Sorry, mom and dad, but I'd rather have a Windows based machine. I often play CS and other games. And my friends only have Windows machines. Can you please take it back and give me another type of PC?"

And instead of posting here numorous times then say from the get-go that he is sad that he recieved a Mac and what should he do.

Anyway. carry on.

[arcticmac]

I play games all day long on my mac!!

(note: game - anything interesting done with a Mac)

if my parents just bought me a dual 1.8 GHz G5... oh never mind. they wouldn't.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
lol, nope, but they are super goood for gaming, the best that exists

bzzt.

www.hillbillytechnologies.com

[MindFad]

By the way, why in the hell is this still open�and in this forum even?

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Well kid, if you're still alive I'll build you a machine faster than any Alienware rig and you can send me your G5 as payment and well *both* feel good about it... what do you say?

[Maflynn]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
There is a large part of the Linux community that considers programs like WiNE hurtful.

It's going to stink when people say "we don't need to program for OS X, just write it for XP and it will work under WiNE"

This statement reminded me of OS/2 when IBM built in windows emulation. What they did was pretty slick but it turned out to be a major downfall; why spend the money to write os/2 programs when it can run windows.
This wasn't the main reason why os/2 didn't catch on but a few of them were:
1. IBM couldn't market themselves out of a paperbag at the time.
2. They for some insane reason contracted MS to write the OS which was supposed to replace MS Dos,
3. They charged MS by how many thousand lines of code they produced. So Bill Gates being intellegant had his programmers write thousands and thousands of lines of code.

Can you say a slow bloated OS that couldn't be marketd properly and had little application availability.

O well, a little off topic.
Mike

[absmiths]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
get yourself an **** Xbox.

Best solution for kids like you, IMO.

-s*

I don't understand why people even play games on computers anymore. Playstation 2, XBox, Gamecube, whatever - they play games exceptionally well; they network; game rentals are abundant (as far as I know no-one rents PC games) and maintenance is minimal if not non-existant.

The only games I play on my computer nowadays are emulated games (Commodore 64, Amiga, Nintendo, etc).

[Kristoff]

Please lock this thread. Every time I see it, I want to kick that ungrateful choadsucker in the balls.

LOCK
NOW
PLEASE!

[i_wolf]

We do serious math work (number crunching) and medical analysis and we are working with G5's and chose em over Opteron's Xeons etc... Why?.... because of speed (a little integer, mainly floating point (that canot be matricised) and some vector matrix calculations). Sure if you merely porting an app from x86 to PPC 970 with a recompile for the PPC970 you are gonna miss out on a lot of bells and whistles that the chip provides. Basically the PPC970 /G5 is a high end workstation processor, and shoudl be thought of as such. Presently the G5 is not operating in optimal conditions compared with x86 competitors and still in a lot of situations that we use it it massacres the nearest competitor. On a lot of levels there are bells and whistles that are just not taken advantage of yet... such as the hardware squar root capability and the advanced scheduler. This is because its such a new architecture. For example a recompile of G4 code does not mean that the code is well optimized for G5. The PPC ISA enables a chip designer to radically alter is chip design and still remain PPC ISA compliant. This is not quite the case with the x86 ISA. Opterons can look forward to an 8% performance boost when code moves to 64 bit. However presently, in 32 bit and other scenarios, the majority of code is as optimized as it will get for it. For example.... the floating point unit, integer units and internal pipelines are based heavily on Athlon XP. That is not a bad thing as the Athlon is a fantastic chip. However this means that next gen x86 chips like the Opteron are already running this software in 32 bit mode at a best case scenario. Furthermore SSE2 is extremely prevalent in the x86 side of the fence... The Opteron automatically benefits from this also. Compilers for x86 such as GCC autovectorise (can optimize the code to take advantage of the SIMD units like SSE2 even if the programmer does not manually code SSE2 code ) so the code that is generated for todays Opteron's and Xeons in 32 bit is essentially extremely optimized. Also compilers on x86 side of the fence are probably some of the most developed in the computing industry.
Compare that with the G5, radically different processor architecture to prior G4, G3.... Yes you do get a speed up on 32 apps by a simple recompile. However if you read Apple's docs on how to optimize code well from the G5, they suggest that developers parallelise their code as much as possible and comile with G5 flags. This yields a massive performance increase in itself. The G5 has a vector coprocessor (altivec) which unlike SSE and SSE2 can work independently of the integer and fpu units. However a lot of apps do not make as much use of altivec as they could. The majority of compilers do not autovectorise for altivec such as GCC, XLC,XLF etc.. (excepttion absoft). Now consider how fast some of the native optimized apps for the G5 are against the Pc equivalents e.g. compare a native optimized app like FCP against the x86 equiv optimized for athlon 64 and P4 e.g. Premiere pro and you see how fast the G5 actually is. NASA and their Jet 3d took their initial code (about as fast as a P4 2.6) and from some optimizations and a recompile with proper native compilers without autovectorisations got a 300% increase.
The image analysis we are working with shows that in optimized conditions (there is huge room to optimize on the PPC970 platform... more so than the x86) we have seen improvements of 60% over the nearest x86 competitor, and we expect that number to rise higher as more mature compilers are released for the PPC970.
Saying that a Dothan processor will 'beat the pants' of a G5 at the same clock is a little sad without looking at the big picture.
I also work with SGI Fuel workstations, and I could easily have said that a Dothan would kick its arse at image processing. The Fuel uses an 800MHz processor. Chances are that if I merely ported (recompiled an x86 app for it .... simplified explanation) the dothan would be faster at the same clock. However there is huge room for optimization on the fuel as well, and it has massive potential if you optimize for it.
The point of this rant is that, not everything is as transparant as processor A kicks the ass of processor B. You gotta look at the potential processor performance and how well written applications and compilers are for a given architecture. Also look at how suitable a processor/architecture is for a given job. There are jobs that Im sure would benefit an Opteron better than a PPC970.. for a start if a company does not want to invest time and money optimizing and porting an app that was already written for an x86 to PPC970. Also the integer units on the Opteron are nicer and more powerful (integer work does get a significant speed up on PPC970 from optimization but not nearly or anyway near as much as floating point and vector does).
The PowerMac is a workstation, its a little sad to hear some kid come in here and complain that its a crap games machine and how much faster a dothan will be and that he wants an alienware. People who buy PowerMacs usually have high end tasks that are required of it... gamesplaying on it is a bonus but not the primary reason for buying and owning one. For a laugh I should go into an SGI forum and complain that the SGI fuel is a crap games machine and I want an alienware.
All the best
i_wolf

[diamondsw]

If no one else has noticed, the poster made his couple of posts and left. He hasn't posted in quite some time, so it's quite likely this was nothing but a troll to get everyone in a lather. Move along (and lock this thing already).

[angelmb]

Worse, maybe 'someone' out there is smiling because this thread has almost 2000 views in 'no time'.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by angelmb:
Worse, maybe 'someone' out there is smiling because this thread has almost 2000 views in 'no time'.

That may be partly because of the discussion on Darwine, which is actually a little bit interesting rather than mind-numbing. That's the whole reason I'm still reading it.

[Link]

I can see him posting now on HardOCP or some other crazy whacky Windows-fanboy forum:

"Hahahahaahaa look at all the macidiots... they got sooo mad at me! Damn I'd never get a mac because I'd hate to look like all the idiots that use those excuses of a computer"

[goose]

Originally posted by alex_kac:
You know - A G5 will pretty much match almost any PC game to game. You may not get the HIGHEST numbers, but you'll get them way over the noticeable ones.

Unless he wants to play City of Heroes, Battlefield Vietnam, Black Hawk Down. or even Counterstrike.

Oh well......I am jealous of the G5 though. Wish I could upgrade to one.

[xi_hyperon]

[philzilla]

Originally posted by Link:
I can see him posting now on HardOCP or some other crazy whacky Windows-fanboy forum:

"Hahahahaahaa look at all the macidiots... they got sooo mad at me! Damn I'd never get a mac because I'd hate to look like all the idiots that use those excuses of a computer"

you speak his language so well.

i pointed this out a while back, that's why i'm not answering any of his stupid questions with a serious answer. i'd have banned him by about his 4th thread.

[bma_mat99]

Dont worry people, i have not deserted you lol. anyway, i have seen some statements, and here is my reply. First of all, my parants got me the G5, and you should have seen their faces, soo proud of themselves for being such good parants lol. what was i gona say, that their present was junk??? lol, and offend them like that, i dont think so. anyway, another problem is that the VPC has not come out yet for the G5, so i am nowhere close to playing some of the good games, and even if it does come, im sure the games will run realy slow, because i doubt that it will come with hardware exceleration. Anyway, the thing i like about the mac, which is better then windows is that it look nicer, and you can stare at the desktop for an hour. lol, but windows has better games, you cannot lie. and did you see the pictures of the alienware computer? they are sweet!!!! I am no sure, maybe ill try and make some cash to buy a windows computer, so i can stick this G5 into the closet and forget about it.....

[goose]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
Dont worry people, i have not deserted you lol. anyway, i have seen some statements, and here is my reply. First of all, my parants got me the G5, and you should have seen their faces, soo proud of themselves for being such good parants lol. what was i gona say, that their present was junk??? lol, and offend them like that, i dont think so. anyway, another problem is that the VPC has not come out yet for the G5, so i am nowhere close to playing some of the good games, and even if it does come, im sure the games will run realy slow, because i doubt that it will come with hardware exceleration. Anyway, the thing i like about the mac, which is better then windows is that it look nicer, and you can stare at the desktop for an hour. lol, but windows has better games, you cannot lie. and did you see the pictures of the alienware computer? they are sweet!!!! I am no sure, maybe ill try and make some cash to buy a windows computer, so i can stick this G5 into the closet and forget about it.....

Your last sentence doesn't match your first.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
First of all, my parants got me the G5, and you should have seen their faces, soo proud of themselves for being such good parants lol. what was i gona say, that their present was junk??? lol, and offend them like that, i dont think so.

Quite frankly, if I got my kid a $2,500 computer and he didn't like it, I'd damn well want him to tell me instead of just shoving my two grand in the closet.

[Shaddim]

He's some stupid punk spouting BS to get a rise out of some people. Nothing to see here, move along.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by philzilla:
i'd have banned him by about his 4th thread.

Really? I figured you more for banning people before they even visit...wait...

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by gorickey:
Really? I figured you more for banning people before they even visit...wait...

Ohknockitoff, dude...

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by bma_mat99:
Dont worry people, i have not deserted you lol. anyway, i have seen some statements, and here is my reply. First of all, my parants got me the G5, and you should have seen their faces, soo proud of themselves for being such good parants lol. what was i gona say, that their present was junk??? lol, and offend them like that, i dont think so. anyway, another problem is that the VPC has not come out yet for the G5, so i am nowhere close to playing some of the good games, and even if it does come, im sure the games will run realy slow, because i doubt that it will come with hardware exceleration. Anyway, the thing i like about the mac, which is better then windows is that it look nicer, and you can stare at the desktop for an hour. lol, but windows has better games, you cannot lie. and did you see the pictures of the alienware computer? they are sweet!!!! I am no sure, maybe ill try and make some cash to buy a windows computer, so i can stick this G5 into the closet and forget about it.....

I almost came.

[mitchell_pgh]

I say we all feel bad for the poor little rich kid that didn't get the toy he wanted...

Then he comes to a Mac forum to make fun of the gift his parents gave him.

[mitchell_pgh]

I think you should all check out his constant anti-mac posts... just give him a few more days and he will be banned (thank God)

http://forums.macnn.com/search.php?s...earchid=804646