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martimaxin · Jul 2, 2004, 12:08 PM

I switched from a PC about one year ago, and I've noticed thoughout my great mac experience that certain sites just don't like my ibook.

My pc ran Windows XP at 900 Mhz 256 ram.

My ibook is running OSX 10.2 at 900 Mhz 640 ram and it runs much slower on some sites than my PC did. Mainly I'm complaining about IGN.com. Since this is one of my favorite sites on the web, I was disappointed at the performance of my machine on this site?

I was hoaxed into buying a 128 stick from Apple only to find out that I 'needed' to max my new baby out.

So I did a few months ago. Again, a disappointment. I don't know if I read into all of the hype from friends and these boards. But I was lead to believe that this ram would transform my machine into some type of beast. This transformation never took place. I believe that this ram and OSX thing is blown well out of proportion. I see a difference, but it wasn't what I was told to expect.

/end rant.

martimaxin · Jul 2, 2004, 12:10 PM

Could people list some sites that aren't Mac friendly?

sushiism · Jul 2, 2004, 12:23 PM

IGN.com is one of the most badly designed and programmed websites ever. Its the fault of the site if it doesn't work.

What the heck are you doing on IGN anyway? Its one of the biggest cesspools of idiots the internet has ever seen. I mean it hardly even qualifies as journalism and thats just the creators let alone the horrific forums.

wataru · Jul 2, 2004, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by martimaxin:
So I did a few months ago. Again, a disappointment. I don't know if I read into all of the hype from friends and these boards. But I was lead to believe that this ram would transform my machine into some type of beast. This transformation never took place. I believe that this ram and OSX thing is blown well out of proportion. I see a difference, but it wasn't what I was told to expect.

/end rant.

If you use many applications at the same time, more RAM makes all the difference. But when you're surfing the internet, RAM is not necessarily the limiting factor.

The truth is, surfing will never be as fast on a Mac as on a PC, mostly because WinIE is so tightly integrated into the system, whereas browsers are (almost) entirely userland creatures in OS X. If your goal is lightning-fast web browsing, then switch back to your PC.

alphasubzero949 · Jul 2, 2004, 01:16 PM

www.msnbc.com especially when trying to view videos (Windows only).
www.cbsnews.com (video not supported)

Horsepoo!!! · Jul 2, 2004, 01:18 PM

IGN uses lots of javascript I believe...and it's wicked fast in Safari 1.3.

Stradlater · Jul 2, 2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
IGN uses lots of javascript I believe...and it's wicked fast in Safari 1.3.

Yup; martimaxin, just wait for the new version and you should be pleasantly surprised

Stradlater · Jul 2, 2004, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by wataru:
The truth is, surfing will never be as fast on a Mac as on a PC, mostly because WinIE is so tightly integrated into the system, whereas browsers are (almost) entirely userland creatures in OS X. If your goal is lightning-fast web browsing, then switch back to your PC.

Userland creatures? Webcore is getting tighter and tighter with the system... even Dashboard uses it...

wataru · 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
Userland creatures? Webcore is getting tighter and tighter with the system... even Dashboard uses it...

That's why I said "almost." But that has little to do with it, since I find Firefox, which doesn't use WebCore, to be faster than Safari.

Stradlater · Jul 2, 2004, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by wataru:
That's why I said "almost." But that has little to do with it, since I find Firefox, which doesn't use WebCore, to be faster than Safari.

I think Safari will slowly improve, more and more, though.

Horsepoo!!! · Jul 2, 2004, 01:54 PM

CSS and JavaScript were greatly sped up because they're pretty much what Dashboard gadgets are all about (and much more of course.) And nobody would want to use Dashboard gadgets if they were slow.

If some of you found CSS and JavaScript-heavy sites to be slow, wait for Safari 1.3. It's only going to get faster from now on.

If you don't believe me, go check out the Safari 1.3 thread...there's a benchmark site you should check out. You'll see what I mean. At first glance it looks like the new JScore used by Safari 1.3 is probably the fastest on any platform...or maybe it's a tie between Opera's engine and Safari's. But it looks like it beats the pants off Mozilla-based browser's SpiderMonkey and whatever IE uses.

Stradlater · Jul 2, 2004, 02:00 PM

...or maybe very quickly.

mikemako · Jul 2, 2004, 02:12 PM

myspace.com has some problems.. Some people have streaming Windows Media Player video on their home pages and it sometimes causes Safari to completely freeze with beachball of death.

martimaxin · Jul 2, 2004, 02:51 PM

thanks for the replies and such guys. To answer the first question, i don't really know why I surf IGN. I guess I prefer their layout...that and the forum addiction.

Surfing at lightening fast speed was never a goal of mine. My point for this post was to gauge this problem and to see when or if it'll get better.

Safari 1.3 you say? When?

I still have the first version 1.0.2

wataru · Jul 2, 2004, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by martimaxin:
thanks for the replies and such guys. To answer the first question, i don't really know why I surf IGN. I guess I prefer their layout...that and the forum addiction.

Surfing at lightening fast speed was never a goal of mine. My point for this post was to gauge this problem and to see when or if it'll get better.

Safari 1.3 you say? When?

I still have the first version 1.0.2

1.3 might only be available with OS X 10.4, which will be a paid upgrade. No one really knows.

The current version of Safari is 1.2.2. There are two problems I can immediately spot: Why are you complaining about the speed when you haven't even upgraded to the latest version? At least try it first. Second: If you're running such an old version because you're still using OS X 10.2, then upgrade to 10.3.

For all you know, your problem could have been fixed already. Please do a little research first.

Stradlater · Jul 2, 2004, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by wataru:
1.3 might only be available with OS X 10.4, which will be a paid upgrade. No one really knows.

...

Please do a little research first.

2.0 is for 10.4...so 1.3 could only be for 10.3.

JLL · Jul 2, 2004, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
Userland creatures? Webcore is getting tighter and tighter with the system... even Dashboard uses it...

It's still placed in userland. WebKit is a framework just like the many other frameworks.

wataru · Jul 2, 2004, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by Stradlater:
2.0 is for 10.4...so 1.3 could only be for 10.3.

Gotcha. My mistake.

Random question: What is the difference between WebCore and WebKit? I've seen both terms used.

jfinete · Jul 2, 2004, 06:46 PM

WebKit = WebCore + JavaScriptCore + some other stuff

martimaxin · Jul 2, 2004, 08:09 PM

Wataru, I'm not made of money, and I'm upset that I have to upgrade my operating system just to get one web browser update. That's crazy. I've seen 10.3, and I don't believe that it warrents a purchase. However, Apple begs to differ and practically forces you to...what a welcome to the Apple society.

The point is, I'm broke and that I knew of the Safari update (That's why I gave you my version of OSX).

wataru · Jul 2, 2004, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by martimaxin:
Wataru, I'm not made of money, and I'm upset that I have to upgrade my operating system just to get one web browser update. That's crazy. I've seen 10.3, and I don't believe that it warrents a purchase. However, Apple begs to differ and practically forces you to...what a welcome to the Apple society.

The point is, I'm broke and that I knew of the Safari update (That's why I gave you my version of OSX).

You're right, I missed that in your first post.

Well, that's the way it goes. If you want the latest and greatest (which, at least with OS X, is usually also the fastest) then you don't have much choice.

I suggest you switch to Firefox. I find it to be a bit faster than Safari, and it works with all versions of OS X.

Stradlater · Jul 2, 2004, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by martimaxin:
Wataru, I'm not made of money, and I'm upset that I have to upgrade my operating system just to get one web browser update. That's crazy. I've seen 10.3, and I don't believe that it warrents a purchase. However, Apple begs to differ and practically forces you to...what a welcome to the Apple society.

The point is, I'm broke and that I knew of the Safari update (That's why I gave you my version of OSX).

Personally, I think you should reconsider. I find that 10.3 is worlds better than 10.2. When I have to deal with a 10.2 computer, I'm annoyed.

SMacTech · Jul 2, 2004, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by martimaxin:
However, Apple begs to differ and practically forces you to...what a welcome to the Apple society.

Does Apple have a gun to your head forcing you to upgrade? I didn't think so. Feel free to chose from among the many other fine browsers out there.

iDriveX · Jul 3, 2004, 02:42 AM

WM Financial Services, a brokerage. It used to work in Safari and then they switched to an "all new, better" website for faster online trades. Unfortunately, it allows you to log in and then you get a blank white page and it doesn't go beyond that. Works in IE though. Lame.

decursive · Jul 3, 2004, 02:58 AM

your problem lies in the fact that you're using IGN...

allow me to introduce you to ferrago, a gaming site that doesn't suck. i would have recommended 1up as well, but they've taken it upon themselves to commit flash suicide in their new "2.0" version.

and do try out firefox. not as good as safari in my opinion, but still good.

martimaxin · Jul 3, 2004, 08:17 AM

SMacTech, I said practically forces and I believe that it's pretty obvious that they don't have a gun to my head hence I'm still using 10.2....

Horsepoo!!! · Jul 3, 2004, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by martimaxin:
SMacTech, I said practically forces and I believe that it's pretty obvious that they don't have a gun to my head hence I'm still using 10.2....

You will at least make the jump from 10.2 to 10.4, right? Apple nor I are forcing you, but it would be for your own good. 10.3 was the first version of OS X that was, IMO, good enough for everyone.

I can see lots of people staying at 10.3. But can't help but feel sorry for those that are still on 10.2 and *gasp* 10.1. Although people that know what's good for them will probably upgrade to 10.4...especially if they're still using 10.1 or 10.2. There would be too many changes between 10.2 and 10.4 to ignore. Moreso if one is still using 10.1 (which would be very, very sad.)

martimaxin · Jul 3, 2004, 08:21 PM

^^^

10.4's release soon is partially the reason why I've been hesitant about 10.3

However, I do plan to make that jump (10.4)

thePurpleGiant · Jul 3, 2004, 09:11 PM

martimaxin: No big deal, simply try out another browser, such as Camino, Firefox, Omniweb or Opera. Maybe even Shiira, that's quite fast. If you don't want to upgrade to 10.3, and you want a faster browser, there are plenty of options out there.

Apfhex · Jul 3, 2004, 09:24 PM

FYI, IGN.com does work pretty well with Safari 1.2.2, I think just as well as with IE for Windows. Microsoft is going be be making people upgrade to get their latest browser, too.

Assuming it works with 10.2, the latest version of Camino is nice and works well with IGN, and that's what I'd recommend.

Rickster · Jul 3, 2004, 09:52 PM

Random question: What is the difference between WebCore and WebKit? I've seen both terms used.

WebCore and JavaScriptCore are literally the "core" parts of Safari's rendering engine. They're mostly wrappers around KHTML and KJS -- they parse the HTML/CSS, figure out the layout, and provide the JS runtime, but they expect a higher "layer" of software to do the actual drawing of text and images, hook up JS actions to native UI widgets, etc., and a lower layer of software to handle fetching data from the network or filesystem. WebCore and JavaScriptCore are open source.

WebKit is the complete web browsing engine from Safari -- it includes WebCore, and does all the additional stuff mentioned above. A developer can drop WebKit's WebView class into their application and basically have a fully-functional basic web browser. WebKit is built into the OS for anyone to use (like the other system frameworks), but it's not open source.

Chuckit · Jul 3, 2004, 09:53 PM

I've used IGN on FireFox a couple of times. It's still a shitty site, but it doesn't seem to have Safari's insane, mind-numbing slowdown.

martimaxin · Jul 5, 2004, 02:24 PM

I have Camino and it works pretty well with IGN.com
However, it doesn't load the largest quicktime image on the page. All I get is a broken link....the image loads on Safari.