[chrisutley]

My message wasn't directed at you, I generally agree with you. I was making fun of the guy that was talking to us like morons, when the entire premise of his argument was based on idiotic assumptions that are easily shot down with well known facts.

Originally posted by Evan_11:
The only person talking out of their butt was me regarding the next iMac...

With that said Apple is losing out on a market that I see evident here everyday: The low end mac user. Yes, they guy (or shiela) who is say more a hobbiest than professional who can't afford nor really needs a Powermac but doesn't want another iMac or eMac. A single processor G5, a couple of pci slots, upgradeable video card etc. Nothing special. Doesn't even need to be a revolutionary design. Just make it without a monitor and price it under a thousand.

[Zoom]

IIRC correctly the cube failed because Jobs wanted the case to be a perfect cube. His engineers told him it would be quite a bit cheaper to make it "almost" a cube but to have the sides taper in slightly so that they could use a different manuf process.

huh... I never heard that. Where did you get that info? Can you point us to a news story or something? It would be very interesting, if that's what really happened. But the bottom line is that it was just too damn expensive for what you were getting. One can only hope that Steve learned from that mistake.

This waiting is driving me nuts.

[Eug Wanker]

[tooki]

How cool would it be if the new iMac were just an add-on module that could be attached to the VESA mounting holes on an Apple display in place of the stand? (I suppose it could be attached to other LCDs as well.)

tooki

[FL!PNEUS]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:

OMG. THAT would be awesome.

[lngtones]

Originally posted by FL!PNEUS:
OMG. THAT would be awesome.

Doesn't look very friendly though...

[DomDom]

In Australia the cheapest PM is about the same as the 20" iMac. However the AIO design makes the overall price cheaper. I for one like the AIO design because of this fact. Perhaps what Apple needs is something to bridge the gap or at least a cheaper downgraded version of the G5. Maybe they could do bundles like they did years ago, you know cheaper if you buy the lot together.

[Eriamjh]

That iMac is ugly. It's a step backwards if you ask me.

17" LCD for $500? No way! (Although I WANT to believe it).

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by lngtones:
Doesn't look very friendly though...

It looks friendly enough that I'd actually buy it... It's Teh Sexay.

[kcmac]

Uhhhh.

Nice drawing.

Hope not.

I am buying when they are announced.

[Zoom]

I'm fairly sure that I'm going to buy when announced, too. It's gotta meet the following simple criteria:

(1) Available very soon if not immediately.
(2) Reasonably priced.
(3) Somewhat upgradeable.

The second item could be a problem. Steve's made big mistakes here in the past.

The last item could also be a problem. The current iMac is too limited in terms of upgrades - basically just RAM and disk space (and BT/WiFi, I guess). I want to be able to swap out the GPU and hopefully (please!) just one or two PCI slots.

If it's not headless, I may pass - mostly because I'll be pissed that they did it again. The eMac can remain all-in-one, but the iMac needs to change.

T-minus 42 days, 7 hours, 0 minutes and 36 seconds, and counting... (hopefully I got that right)

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Zoom:
I'm fairly sure that I'm going to buy when announced, too. It's gotta meet the following simple criteria:

(1) Available very soon if not immediately.
(2) Reasonably priced.
(3) Somewhat upgradeable.

The second item could be a problem. Steve's made big mistakes here in the past.

The last item could also be a problem. The current iMac is too limited in terms of upgrades - basically just RAM and disk space (and BT/WiFi, I guess). I want to be able to swap out the GPU and hopefully (please!) just one or two PCI slots.

If it's not headless, I may pass - mostly because I'll be pissed that they did it again. The eMac can remain all-in-one, but the iMac needs to change.

T-minus 42 days, 7 hours, 0 minutes and 36 seconds, and counting... (hopefully I got that right)

I think we'll get number 1, and probably number 2 as well. I don't think we'll see number 3.

If it's headless, I'll buy one for home for sure. If it's not, it's a much tougher decision. Unfortunately, I don't think it's gonna be headless.

[Zoom]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
I don't think we'll see number 3.

I know it's a stretch, but I'm hoping. I think it really comes down to how much the iMac is what Steve wants vs what the customer wants. I would imagine this would be a much-requested feature, but maybe not. Maybe iMac owners are fat, dumb and happy with the AIO design and no tweaks.

I think the problem is that the iMac is geared towards a consumer market in it's style and function (small footprint, butt simple, not really upgradeable) but it's priced in the prosumer range. Prosumers, like myself, expect more for that kinda money. We don't need the horsepower of a PowerMac, but we know enough about computers to want some upgrade options and we can handle a little more complexity.

Maybe Apple needs three distinct lines: consumer/eduction, prosumer, and professional... and server, I guess. So FOUR product lines. (Reminds me of the 'Spanish Inquisition' sketch wav.) I don't know. It has to make sense somehow. Things just don't make sense the way they are right now. The LCD prices put the iMacs out of reach of most consumers. The problem is that Apple no longer makes a stand-alone CRT monitor, so if they put out a headless iMac, they risk losing business (ie, not selling Apple displays) to people who just want a cheap CRT. However, if they tie the two together, the overall price is too high for many people (the same people who don't want to spend twice as much for an LCD monitor instead of a CRT). The idea was just a little ahead of its time. LCDs will surely get cheaper, and I think maybe Steve was counting on that happening sooner.

Still, I think there's a market distinction to be made between the AIO Mac and the headless Mac.

[Link]

Thing about the G4 cube was, that it was ahead of it's time. The production costs were too high and the sell price was higher than that of some powermacs if I recall correctly, if not very close.

Now however, thanks to the debut of the SFF PC, they've become more popular.

[leperkuhn]

I hope it's headless. but since the smallest monitor apple now offers is a 20 inch, probably not.

I find it both hilarious and depressing how the "nitch" that apple aims for gets smaller and smaller. Now that they've knocked out most consumers and businesses I wonder who'll be next? Gamers were never in (and never will be, at least serious ones).

So graphics and video. I'm a web developer.. might be time to move to Linux.

[nbnz]

Originally posted by leperkuhn:
I hope it's headless. but since the smallest monitor apple now offers is a 20 inch, probably not.

I find it both hilarious and depressing how the "nitch" that apple aims for gets smaller and smaller. Now that they've knocked out most consumers and businesses I wonder who'll be next? Gamers were never in (and never will be, at least serious ones).

So graphics and video. I'm a web developer.. might be time to move to Linux.

"nitch" or "niche"?

[scourman]

Has it occured to anyone that maybe the G4 iMac might not exist if the G4 Cube never existed? If Apple hadn't gone to all the effort of reducing the size of the computer for the G4 Cube, and it being a commercial failure, they might not have been so motivated to find another avenue to pay for all the R&D - rather smart repackaging I would say. iMac is all about simplicity for the user. Seperating the screen and CPU only adds complexity for the new user, more external parts to fail, increased foot print, and certainly adds to the overall cost. I would think this would be contrary to the purpose and market positioning of the iMac.

[scourman]

BTW, if anyone can recall the rumours prior to the release of the eMac, many of these included designs with LCD that were apparently abandoned due to the LCD cost. These new rumours resemble some of the original eMac rumoured designs... Given that many companies, including Sony, are no longer manufacturing CRTs, I wouldn't be supprised to see an updated eMac sometime in the next while that includes an LCD...

[Eriamjh]

Originally posted by scourman:
BTW, if anyone can recall the rumours prior to the release of the eMac, many of these included designs with LCD that were apparently abandoned due to the LCD cost. These new rumours resemble some of the original eMac rumoured designs... Given that many companies, including Sony, are no longer manufacturing CRTs, I wouldn't be supprised to see an updated eMac sometime in the next while that includes an LCD...

A flat LCD emac would be neat. They could always slap a plate of glass over the display to protect it.

[xe0]

I think too many people here dismiss the AIO design as a past relic that should be abolished.

I can't count the number of average computer users that I know personally, that marvel at Apples AIO designs.
You gotta remember to the average computer user, who has become so accustomed to a computer being two separate devices - the AIO design is something different, simple and elegant.

The guys and gals that post on MacNN who have a plethora of Mac knowledge and history seem to have become desensitized to the AIO design.

For Geeks the powerMac serves well; but don't underestimate the AIO design and what it does to the mindset of consumers.

[Zoom]

Originally posted by xe0:
I can't count the number of average computer users that I know personally, that marvel at Apples AIO designs.

Then they look at the price tag and walk right by it. The Cube was amazing, too, but not worth the money.

I don't agree that separating the display from the CPU makes it "too complex". Every other computer sold is separate and somehow Dell and Gateway survive. Have you ever put together one of those systems?

Apple could easily design some sort of clip thing that would make it easy. And I still think selling a G5 iMac with a display, already attached, is perfectly viable - but you can also buy the iMac without the display. Apple can do the pre-assembly and still have an "all in one" unit, but the user can replace the display later or buy it without a display and use whatever they want. You can have it both ways.

[leperkuhn]

Originally posted by nbnz:
"nitch" or "niche"?

picky bastard.

[Eriamjh]

The cube was everything the G4 iMac wasn't except for one thing: overpriced. That is obvious by the high demand for cubes even today. Coolness was not worth the money.

While Apple may not realize that buyers stayed away because of the price, I doubt there will be another compact, silent, expandable PowerMac for a looooooong time. The G5 cube will not happen. They can't cool it with fans. They can't cool it with liquid pumps.

[Zoom]

Okay. I'm ready for a big leak on this story. I'm getting sick of waiting for MW. AppleInsider has a very little blurb on the upcoming iMacs, but I'm ready for some artist renderings from ThinkSecret!

[BenRoethig]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
The only person talking out of their butt was me regarding the next iMac...

With that said Apple is losing out on a market that I see evident here everyday: The low end mac user. Yes, they guy (or shiela) who is say more a hobbiest than professional who can't afford nor really needs a Powermac but doesn't want another iMac or eMac. A single processor G5, a couple of pci slots, upgradeable video card etc. Nothing special. Doesn't even need to be a revolutionary design. Just make it without a monitor and price it under a thousand.

I agree. Right now, Apple has a real big whole in the destop lineup.

Apple's current lineup:
eMac: Low end affordable family machine. Not upradable. Under a grand.

iMac: 'Medium' family machine. Almost the same as eMac, but with LCD displays. Little reason to buy instead of eMac unless an LCD display is a priority (which is why they are out sold by their LCD cousin 3:1)

PowerMac G5: High end professional Tower.

What's missing? A consumer tower. Something like a PowerMac 6500. Something that can bring potential switchers who do not want an AIO machine, but cannot afford to go with the G5 (which is really overkill for consumers anyway, since the second processor is rarely used with consumer aplications). I think actions speak louder than words here. The LCD iMac was a really cool Machine, might has beent the biggest sales bomb Apple has seen since the cube. Why? When it comes down to it, it's really a novelty. In my opinion, Apple should rename the eMac the iMac and then introduce the new Machine with a different name like gMac or cMac or something.

[Zoom]

Yep, I think most of agree on that. Apple is missing a viable product for the consumer space. The iMac has the functionality of a consumer product and the price of a prosumer or even pro product. Sure, the attached LCD adds most of that price, but you can't buy it without one. It's time to split them up, let people buy just the CPU, AND they need to give it a little more upgradeability.

[zeebe]

Originally posted by BenRoethig:
I agree. Right now, Apple has a real big whole in the destop lineup.

Apple's current lineup:
eMac: Low end affordable family machine. Not upradable. Under a grand.

iMac: 'Medium' family machine. Almost the same as eMac, but with LCD displays. Little reason to buy instead of eMac unless an LCD display is a priority (which is why they are out sold by their LCD cousin 3:1)

PowerMac G5: High end professional Tower.

What's missing? A consumer tower. Something like a PowerMac 6500. Something that can bring potential switchers who do not want an AIO machine, but cannot afford to go with the G5 (which is really overkill for consumers anyway, since the second processor is rarely used with consumer aplications). I think actions speak louder than words here. The LCD iMac was a really cool Machine, might has beent the biggest sales bomb Apple has seen since the cube. Why? When it comes down to it, it's really a novelty. In my opinion, Apple should rename the eMac the iMac and then introduce the new Machine with a different name like gMac or cMac or something.

I agree with everything you say, except why rename the eMac? What would the g or c stand for? The i in iMac stood for Internet (not sure if it does or should anymore) and the e in eMac stood for education (not sure if it does or should anymore). You think they should rename the eMac to iMac because it has a crt and looks like the old iMacs?? That is not what the eMac was suppose to do. It was suppose to give people in schools (like me) who run computer labs (like me) a cheaper, less likely to break from kids wear and tear machine. Keep the eMac the eMac. If you want to discontinue the iMac line and call the new machine a cMac (consumer Macintosh) that would be good!!

(Sorry to steal your cMac, but it hit me at the end of my rant! )

[zeebe]

Originally posted by Zoom:
Yep, I think most of agree on that. Apple is missing a viable product for the consumer space. The iMac has the functionality of a consumer product and the price of a prosumer or even pro product. Sure, the attached LCD adds most of that price, but you can't buy it without one. It's time to split them up, let people buy just the CPU, AND they need to give it a little more upgradeability.

Very true, if Apple wants to compete with Dell and eMachines, they need to bring costs down to match those. I mean if they can make profits selling them for those prices why can't Apple, especially with all of the iPods they are selling, it might get people to switch to a cheaper Mac.

[BenRoethig]

Originally posted by zeebe:
I agree with everything you say, except why rename the eMac? What would the g or c stand for? The i in iMac stood for Internet (not sure if it does or should anymore) and the e in eMac stood for education (not sure if it does or should anymore). You think they should rename the eMac to iMac because it has a crt and looks like the old iMacs?? That is not what the eMac was suppose to do. It was suppose to give people in schools (like me) who run computer labs (like me) a cheaper, less likely to break from kids wear and tear machine. Keep the eMac the eMac. If you want to discontinue the iMac line and call the new machine a cMac (consumer Macintosh) that would be good!!

(Sorry to steal your cMac, but it hit me at the end of my rant! )

The eMac was envisioned as as an education machine, but has really taken over the legacy of the G3 iMacs. It's an affordable, no frills family machine and has been a huge sales success.

The gMac I stole from another thread. It stands for gamerMac.
cMac you guessed right and that would be my first choice.

[BenRoethig]

Originally posted by zeebe:
Very true, if Apple wants to compete with Dell and eMachines, they need to bring costs down to match those. I mean if they can make profits selling them for those prices why can't Apple, especially with all of the iPods they are selling, it might get people to switch to a cheaper Mac.

I'd sell them at say 1199 for the low end model and 1599 for the high end model. Right between the eMac and PM G5.

[Eug Wanker]

The all-new iMac - email notification page

[Zoom]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
The all-new iMac - email notification page

Wow! Now that's just really wacky! Why would Apple do this? I've never seen this done before. Granted, I can't recall a time when we new ahead of time that a new product was arriving, at least officially knew, but still ... this is "most unprecedented".

I signed up. Why not?

I'm so ready to own this new thing, whatever it is. My G4 is really feeling sluggish. I started keeping the CPU monitor running in the dock, and it's no wonder it feels slow... it is! Just sitting here, Safari is taking nearly 40-50% CPU (I'm sure to run the damn Flash advertisement). I'm SO ready for an upgrade.

[mitchell_pgh]

I love the price, but don't care for the design all that much... I just want it to be small and simple.

[Eriamjh]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
The all-new iMac - email notification page

Like I need to sign up for somehting that will be all over the net a few seconds after the first email is sent...

[mitchell_pgh]

Price killed the cube. You can say anything you want, but when it came down to it... it just wasn't justified.

[Evan_11]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:

I love the price, but don't care for the design all that much... I just want it to be small and simple.

Judging by the way people are oogling over the new displays I think if they follow the same design path with the iMac G5 they'll have a hit.



Look closely at the Arch like arm mount and I think you can imagine what the neck will look like on the new iMac. Design wise it would look brilliant. Regarding the iMac I think Jobs is just as concerned about style as function than price vs. performance. It has so far worked brilliantly for the iPod.

[mitchell_pgh]

I think following the brushed metal design of the monitors is a good idea.

A LCD with a square box under it doesn't nothing for me.

I like the box, but the combo looks VERY forced.

[Klian]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:

1.8 at $799. I would like to believe that