[rewecow]

I wonder if this is hackable? There doesn't seem to be much of a hardware difference between the 3G and 4G (except the scroll wheel). Anyone know if this is being worked on?

[Landos Mustache]

Well it just came out a few hours ago so I don't know if anyone is "working on it".

[mishap]

not possible.

[rewecow]

mishap - why do you say not possible?

[mdc]

i think this is going to be the same as last year when the 3g came out and all the 2g owners were pissed and did all they could to get the 3g software for their 2g.

[Powaqqatsi]

Why would you want to upgrade ? Just for the kick of upgrading ? Does this new SW offer anything new besides the new Music-menu ?

[rozwado1]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Why would you want to upgrade ? Just for the kick of upgrading ? Does this new SW offer anything new besides the new Music-menu ?

It also offers "shuffle" from the main menu and an audible click through the headphones - so you don't have to look at the screen when you're doing ratings, moving through the menus, etc.

[MaxPower2k3]

what's the point of shuffle through the main menu? what does it shuffle? i can accomplish the same thing by hitting play from the main menu with my 3G iPod; it picks a random album from my library and plays it. What does shuffle do that's any different?

[lookmark]

Originally posted by rewecow:
I wonder if this is hackable? There doesn't seem to be much of a hardware difference between the 3G and 4G (except the scroll wheel). Anyone know if this is being worked on?

Apparently there's more of a difference between the 3G and 4G models than just the click-wheel.

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/07/19/ipod/

Excerpt:

The new battery on the iPod is good for up to 12 hours of use at a time. The iPod previously sported a battery good for about an 8 hour charge, under optimal conditions. The improved battery performance is a function of three overall improvements, according to Joswiak. "The battery has a higher capacity, there have been a number of software improvements, and this is fourth-generation hardware under the hood too," he said.

[TailsToo]

Forget it. No hacks to take the 3rd Gen to 4th Gen. If you want the new features, Apple will make sure that you pay for them. (as someone who owned a 2nd Gen when the new 3rd Gen features were announced, I understand. At least in this case there isn't as much difference.)

[SupahCoolX]

It's not a big deal, really. The software changes for the new iPods are nice, but by NO MEANS necessary. I certainly don't see it as a big deal.
If only new iPods could use iTMS songs or something like that, there would be cause for concern, but not for the minor revision made here.

[Bobby]

Originally posted by MaxPower2k3:
what's the point of shuffle through the main menu? what does it shuffle? i can accomplish the same thing by hitting play from the main menu with my 3G iPod; it picks a random album from my library and plays it. What does shuffle do that's any different?

I have some comedy albums (Lewis Black) that are meant to be heard in order, I like to hear music in random order. Because of this currently I have to go into options and change the option for in order/random, which can get annoying...

It would be nice to enable/disable shuffle on the main screen...

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally posted by Bobby:
I have some comedy albums (Lewis Black) that are meant to be heard in order, I like to hear music in random order. Because of this currently I have to go into options and change the option for in order/random, which can get annoying...

It would be nice to enable/disable shuffle on the main screen...

ah, alright, i didn't think of that. (i only use shuffle by album; i always listen to albums all the way through in the correct order)

[siliconwarrior]

If the new software features weren't worth having then Apple wouldn't have included them.

And when the 3G iPods came out there was a software update for older iPods as I recall that upgraded those features that were not hardware dependent. It would be nice if 3G owners were to maybe get version 2.3 software that would do the same, i'm sure that the relocation of the shuffle function, the Music menu and earphone clicks (maybe even Audiobook speed adjustment) are only software changes.

Perhaps Apple are reluctant to do this because it would lessen the already small feature gap between generation 3 and 4, but I was really hoping for the quick shuffle access for my 3G - mostly to save valuable 'Eyes Off Road' time when selecting random in the car.

[Luca Rescigno]

Yesterday I thought of something - what if Apple were to offer paid feature updates to older iPods? There were a lot of features introduced with the 3G (and a few now with the 4G) that could easily be incorporated into the older models, but weren't. It's partly to drive sales, and also I think it's because there is no way Apple would actually benefit from putting the time in to port the new software features over to the old ones. But it's not like a 3G iPod owner is going to ditch it and buy a 4G simply because they get shuffle on the main menu. At least, not many will. A lot of iPod owners might want to upgrade based on the total package of new features, but few will do it simply for a few software enhancements.

So I say make the major upgrades available for $29. Then, just like you do with a Mac you bought a year or two ago, you can update its software to the latest version. It would generate a little extra cash, a lot more good will, and put the iPod's upgradable firmware to good use. Have a $29 price tag on a full-featured upgrade, and maybe also have a deal where you can get major iPod updates free for the duration of your iPod AppleCare plan. That would help drive AppleCare sales, which carry a really big profit margin.

[videian28]

I for one really wanted the audiobook speed up function, but I will not buy a new iPod just for that... sucks I can't have it tho

[ort888]

It's pretty ridiculous that Apple simply drops support for the old iPods the second a new one is released.

There is absolutely no reason to not upgrade the firmware to include the new interface options.

It's as if Apple made every new OS only run on the current generation of computer. Wow, look! OS 10.4 came out! Time to sell my old crappy G5 I bought 6 months ago and buy a brand new one!

Talk about a big time customer screw.

[echosphere]

The iPod, by definition, is not a Mac. It is a consumer electronics toy. Think of Sony's CD Walkman's, no one complains that the one they bought 2 years ago won't play MP3's or that it isn't upgradable.

I wish someone would hack it though. But if you can't hack it, get over it. IT IS planned obselecense, but your ipod will still Sync and play.

[mishap]

Originally posted by echosphere:
but your ipod will still Sync and play.

hahaha. that was funny sh*t

[ort888]

Originally posted by echosphere:
The iPod, by definition, is not a Mac. It is a consumer electronics toy. Think of Sony's CD Walkman's, no one complains that the one they bought 2 years ago won't play MP3's or that it isn't upgradable.

I wish someone would hack it though. But if you can't hack it, get over it. IT IS planned obselecense, but your ipod will still Sync and play.

It's more then a simple toy. It's a very expensive sophisticated device that syncs with your computer. They should be upgradable.

Sure, Apple can do whatever the heck they want. But if they were nice, and if they were cool... they would continue to update the older hardwares firmware. It's the right thing to do.

I'm not asking for the world here. I think it's a pretty reasonable request. Especially considering what they charge.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by ort888:
They should be upgradable.

They are. Every single iPod has a new version with this update.

Oh, you want the new features that are available because of new hardware? Then buy the hardware.

[SafariX]

Personally, I think its ridiculous that Apple wont at least let 3G owners add a "shuffle" item to the main menu. No offense SWG, but *gay.*

[TailsToo]

Originally posted by siliconwarrior:
...And when the 3G iPods came out there was a software update for older iPods as I recall that upgraded those features that were not hardware dependent.

This update only added ACC support to gen 1 and 2 iPods. No other features (such as on-the-fly playlists!) were added.

[TailsToo]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
Yesterday I thought of something - what if Apple were to offer paid feature updates to older iPods? There were a lot of features introduced with the 3G (and a few now with the 4G) that could easily be incorporated into the older models, but weren't. It's partly to drive sales, and also I think it's because there is no way Apple would actually benefit from putting the time in to port the new software features over to the old ones. But it's not like a 3G iPod owner is going to ditch it and buy a 4G simply because they get shuffle on the main menu. At least, not many will. A lot of iPod owners might want to upgrade based on the total package of new features, but few will do it simply for a few software enhancements.

So I say make the major upgrades available for $29. Then, just like you do with a Mac you bought a year or two ago, you can update its software to the latest version. It would generate a little extra cash, a lot more good will, and put the iPod's upgradable firmware to good use. Have a $29 price tag on a full-featured upgrade, and maybe also have a deal where you can get major iPod updates free for the duration of your iPod AppleCare plan. That would help drive AppleCare sales, which carry a really big profit margin.

I think more people would complain about paying for the upgrade than are now about not having it available.

[awaspaas]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
They are. Every single iPod has a new version with this update.

Oh, you want the new features that are available because of new hardware? Then buy the hardware.

No, the upgrades for the other iPods have already been out for a couple months. This just rolled them into a unified updater program. No new versions on any old hardware.

[ort888]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
They are. Every single iPod has a new version with this update.

Oh, you want the new features that are available because of new hardware? Then buy the hardware.

It's the same upgrade from April for everyone but G4 iPod owners. Nothing is different at all.

How is hardware tied to making a clicking noise through the headphones, or adding a shuffle item on the main screen? It's not. They are just being shady and greedy.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by ort888:
It's the same upgrade from April for everyone but G4 iPod owners. Nothing is different at all.

How is hardware tied to making a clicking noise through the headphones, or adding a shuffle item on the main screen? It's not. They are just being shady and greedy.

You can always send feedback, but these features were programmed in for the new wheel and new hardware, so the software might not directly port over to the 3G. I have a 3G iPod, but don't see what's worth upgrading over.

[timmerk]

Originally posted by ort888:
How is hardware tied to making a clicking noise through the headphones, or adding a shuffle item on the main screen? It's not. They are just being shady and greedy.

It's not being shady and greedy: why waste money implementing features on old products? You are probably one of those people that want OS X working on your Powermac 6100, right?

Plus, Apple is a BUSINESS - they exist to make money. They are not a tech charity or non-profit organization trying to make everyone happy for free.

Get over it.

[ort888]

Originally posted by timmerk:
It's not being shady and greedy: why waste money implementing features on old products? You are probably one of those people that want OS X working on your Powermac 6100, right?

Plus, Apple is a BUSINESS - they exist to make money. They are not a tech charity or non-profit organization trying to make everyone happy for free.

Get over it.

No, it's as if Apple releases 10.4 tomorrow and it won't run on anything less then the current line up of G5s. Bought your G5 in January? Tough poop sucker. Apple is just trying to make money. You need to buy the new one to run the latest OS.

[wataru]

Originally posted by ort888:
No, it's as if Apple releases 10.4 tomorrow and it won't run on anything less then the current line up of G5s. Bought your G5 in January? Tough poop sucker. Apple is just trying to make money. You need to buy the new one to run the latest OS.

Listen: No one promised you anything, so quit playing the victim. If you want them to do you a favor and backport the new software, then why don't you ask them to?

But don't be surprised when your efforts result in nothing.

[ort888]

Do me a favor? Apple and I share a symbiotic relationship. They make products that make my life better and I send them money. We both benefit. Upgrading the OS on the iPods to incorporate new features will make me happy and result in me feeling good about their product and my product loyalty. Forcing me to buy a new iPod to get a shuffle option on my main menu makes me sad. It makes me want to send them less money in the future. Everyone loses.

Why are you people defending Apple on this one? Of course they promised me nothing. Of course they have to do nothing. It's their right. It's also the same type of behavior that resulted in them currently having about a 3% market share. Arrogance.

It's just one of those annoying things. If they were cool about it, they would continue to update the software on thheir old iPods. Too bad they aren't cool about it. Too bad they decided to be greedy. Who loses? Me. You. All of their customers.

Knowing that Apple will never be upgrading the firmware on older iPods (even though it would surely be a very simple task to accomplish) will weigh on my mind when it comes time to upgrade.

Maybe in a year or two when it's time for me to buy a new MP3 player some other company who feels it's more important to keep their existing customers happy will get my money. We'll see.

Serously though. What if they did this with all their hardware? How many Apple computers would you buy knowing that every time a new OS came out you would have to buy a new machine to use it?

[wataru]

Cut the drama and realize this: Apple doesn't need you, ort888. Apple doesn't care whether you think they're "cool" or not. You are not the average customer. The average customer does not give a rat's ass about getting version 3.0 of the iPod OS backported to the 3G iPods. Maybe I'm wrong, and people do care. If that's the case then you will probably get your way.

But I don't think I'm wrong. By all means, prove me wrong. I have a 3G and I wouldn't mind having 3.0.

[ort888]

It's not drama. It's really not a big deal at all. It's just annoying that Apple is purposfully withholding features from their old products in order to boost sales of the new.

I would have hoped that my $300 mini-computer would not have been dropped so quickly from their upgrade plans. That is all. I'm new to the world of iPods and I was expecting that in the future, I would be seeing minor tweeks and upgrades to the iPod software. I guess not. Looks like Apple drops the old hardware the second new hardware comes out.

I didn't realize the same thing happened with the G2s when the G3s came out. It's simply not a cool thing for them to do. I know they don't care about me. That's one of the reasons I care a little less about them every day.

[Link]

Originally posted by ort888:
It's the same upgrade from April for everyone but G4 iPod owners. Nothing is different at all.

How is hardware tied to making a clicking noise through the headphones, or adding a shuffle item on the main screen? It's not. They are just being shady and greedy.

You mean they weren't when they did this to the 2G ipods?

Long live iPod Linux! Now if only another damn distro got out the door!

[jasong]

Does it say anywhere in the iPod materials that it is upgradable? Has there been a history of upgrades from g1 to g2 to g3 that lead you to believe you would be getting an upgrade? Does this 4g iPod do anything that impairs your 3g iPod in any way? Apple released a new version of the device, it works a little different than the previous version, that's the way it goes.

Trust me, Apple does not plan on getting much revenue from 3g users upgrading. They know it is a small upgrade. They aren't doing this to force you to upgrade. They made a business decision that it wasn't worth their time or effort to create a software upgrade for older iPods.

Anyway, I am sorry you're annoyed . . . oh wait, I'm not. I am sorry your iPod sucks and is useless and that you wasted your money buying it.

-- Jason