Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Copying Songs onto iPod in Australlia Illegal

Copying Songs onto iPod in Australlia Illegal
Thread Tools
undotwa
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 2, 2004, 07:01 PM
 
In vino veritas.
     
demograph68
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 2, 2004, 07:13 PM
 
Could you post the text here? I don't feel like registering just to read it. Thanks.
     
soul searching
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Stuck in 19*53
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 2, 2004, 07:19 PM
 
And I thought we had it bad with the RIAA here in the States

Originally posted by demograph68:
Could you post the text here? I don't feel like registering just to read it. Thanks.
You don't have to register, click on "Don�t want to register now? Register later and continue to your Article." But I'll post it anyway:
Click at your own risk
August 3, 2004

Page Tools
Email to a friend Printer format
Out of tune ... Apple's ads, show you how to copy music - with the disclaimer "Don't steal music."

Apple's iPod digital music player may be the hottest electronic toy in the world, but it has almost no legal use in Australia, writes Julian Lee.

The next time The Clash's I Fought the Law is blaring away on your Apple iPod music player, savour the irony that not only are you likely to be an outlaw - you are getting away with it with the help of one of the world's biggest brands.

You are not alone. There are 100,000 of you across the country and the police aren't coming after you. Yet.

Apple's iPod is the Sony Walkman of the new century. In the 1980s, Sony's cassette player revolutionised music by making it portable. Today Apple and others have eliminated the tape and have taken the Walkman digital. An iPod owner can copy hundreds - even thousands - of songs from CDs onto a box the size of a cigarette packet.

More than 100,000 Australians listen to music on such digital music players. Retailers cannot stock them fast enough. There is just one problem.

Most people know it is illegal to download songs from the internet without paying. But far fewer people know it is illegal to copy music from a CD you have legally bought.

Anyone who has copied songs from a CD onto an iPod or computer hard drive has fallen foul of Australian copyright laws, which critics argue are failing to keep pace with technological change. Copying music for personal use is generally OK in the US and Europe. But not in Australia.

Advertisement
Advertisement
"It's unlikely that the Australian Federal Police would investigate individuals for offences such as illegally copying a CD," a police spokeswoman said. "However all cases referred to the AFP are categorised and investigated as necessary."

Unlike its rivals, Apple does not allow legitimate music websites such as Telstra and Ninemsn to sell digital songs for the iPod. Because Apple does not allow Australian customers to buy songs from its US iTunes website - and there is no local site - there is not much you can do legally with an Apple iPod in Australia.

"You could possibly use it to listen to music that you've recorded yourself or even to a recording made by your friend's band," says a copyright expert, Kim Weatherall, of Melbourne University's law school. "But that's about it."

Despite the law, a recent Apple magazine advertisement (pictured) demonstrates how to copy songs from a CD onto a computer - and then from the computer onto an iPod. At the bottom of the ad, in small print, is the plea: "Don't steal music."

Brett Oaten, a solicitor who represents popular Australian artists such as Powderfinger and Delta Goodrem, says: "Until we get the iTunes site in Australia there are not many ways to use the iPod legitimately here. You have to have an American credit card to gain access to the American site."

Apple refuses to say when, or if, it plans to launch iTunes here. However Charles Caldas, who heads Australia's biggest independent record company, Shock, says Apple "is talking to record companies about licensing songs here in Australia so we can assume they will launch here". Until then - like most record label bosses - Caldas is against changing the law.

Defying convention is what we have come to expect of Apple. Australian managers declined to answer questions for this article.

Apple is the company that came back from the brink in the mid-1990s with the iMac - a computer produced in lollipop colours such as grape and apricot that became a fashion accessory alongside the lava lamp and the divan.

Globally Apple is now selling more iPods than computers - 860,000 in the June quarter. Apple's latest "iPod mini" - also available in five colours - last month sold out its first Australian shipment in days. Although Apple did not invent the technology, rivals - including Sony - are scurrying to catch up.

Australians bought 78,401 digital music players (all brands) in the 11 months to June, according to retail consultancy GfK Marketing. Apple is the No. 1 seller, although its local sales figures are unknown.

The Herald spoke to a number of iPod users, who said they routinely broke the law either by copying songs from CDs or by downloading music from illegal websites. All requested anonymity, such was their reluctance to be identified as law-breakers.

Sue, a designer for a Sydney website design outfit, has no qualms about copying CDs onto her iPod. "Why shouldn't I be able to copy a CD that I paid $30 for? I should be able to use it in any way can."

David, a Sydney psychologist, doesn't want "a load of stolen music sitting on my hard drive".

In an effort to do the right thing, he has a friend in New York buy tracks from the US Apple iTunes site and email them to Australia. But the legal situation frustrates him. "Just because the music industry can't keep up with changes in technology, why should I not be able to listen to music in whatever format I choose?"

The music industry is split on the issue.

Songwriters and publishers want to change the law and pay for the copies through levies on digital music players and blank CDs. The record labels - which own the recordings - want the law to stay.

The situation is "mad", says Phil Tripp, a music publicist who is lobbying Canberra on behalf of the Australasian Performing Right Association (APRA, which represents songwriters and publishers). "So you bought a CD and you think you own the song. Wrong! You own the bit of plastic and that's it."

APRA says Canada - which allows copying - raised $30 million last year from a levy on blank CDs, DVDs and music players.

"There isn't an artist out there who doesn't want to see their work distributed in the widest possible way - provided they are paid for it by consumers, the website operators and the record companies," says Oaten.

That view is not shared by the record companies - represented by the Australian Record Industry Association.

APRA's levy proposal was "flawed, cumbersome and a very unsatisfactory solution which, in all likelihood, could exacerbate the very problem that it is seeking to address", ARIA said.

The last time the idea of a levy was introduced in Australia was 10 years ago and it was strangled at birth by the courts as unconstitutional. Instead, the record companies have developed technology to lock or "encrypt" CDs, preventing them from being copied onto digital music players. They have begun selling some music online, but they are struggling to compete with the many illegal websites where fans swap songs without charge.

The Federal Government stands on the sidelines, waiting for the music industry to adopt a common stance. The office of the Attorney-General, Philip Ruddock, says it is "looking at the issue".

The situation is complicated by the proposed free trade agreement with the US. As part of an agreement, Australia is to adopt tougher US-inspired laws aimed at preventing people from breaking encrypted CDs or DVDs, an activity that is not yet illegal in Australia. By 2006 anyone caught selling an encryption-breaking chip or a computer program or anyone found to have used such a devices to gain "access" - not just copy - material will face jail.

"If anything, digital copyright laws are going to become a lot tougher in this country," says Weatherall.

Even if iTunes were to launch here there is a view that it won't be the saviour from online piracy that the industry had hoped, despite the fact that it will offer for sale 800,000 tracks - more than twice as many as Australia's biggest online music seller.

Worldwide, iTunes has sold 100 million songs since its launch 14 months ago, compared to an estimated 2.2 billion illegal downloads in that period. Little wonder the industry isn't holding out much hope.

"Sales of [legal] downloads are negligible," says Oaten. "The number of downloads at the moment is modest," admits Brett Cottle, chief executive of APRA. Neither Telstra nor Ninemsn will reveal up-to-date sales figures.

"I suspect that even if people knew they were breaking the law then they probably wouldn't change their behaviour - and I don't know whether iTunes is going to change that," says Cottle.
( Last edited by soul searching; Aug 2, 2004 at 07:27 PM. )

"I think of lotteries as a tax on the mathematically challenged." -- Roger Jones
     
Macfreak7
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Macfreak7
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 2, 2004, 07:28 PM
 
More unnecessary negative publicity for Apple. Why the heck has the author focused on the iPod rather than saying ALL portable digital music players are relatively "useless" or something to that effect?
The problem is the enforcement of the law, there's no need to put a picture of the iPod on there.
     
demograph68
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 2, 2004, 07:36 PM
 
Thank god I'm not living there. What bull****! Thanks soul searching for the text.
APRA says Canada - which allows copying - raised $30 million last year from a levy on blank CDs, DVDs and music players.
That REALLY sucks! Is this supposed to help the music industry?!? I THINK NOT!
     
thePurpleGiant
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 2, 2004, 07:46 PM
 
Originally posted by demograph68:
Thank god I'm not living there. What bull****!
I agree its ********. But like the article says, nothing is being done, no one even knows that it is illegal over here. I sure didn't. Doesn't seem to be any problem if no one cares Although it would be good to have the laws changed to reflect at least where the rest of the world is at.
     
demograph68
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 2, 2004, 07:59 PM
 
Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
I agree its ********. But like the article says, nothing is being done, no one even knows that it is illegal over here. I sure didn't. Doesn't seem to be any problem if no one cares Although it would be good to have the laws changed to reflect at least where the rest of the world is at.
I give you props for rebelling against the system.
     
undotwa  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 06:10 AM
 
Originally posted by Macfreak7:
More unnecessary negative publicity for Apple. Why the heck has the author focused on the iPod rather than saying ALL portable digital music players are relatively "useless" or something to that effect?
The problem is the enforcement of the law, there's no need to put a picture of the iPod on there.
They talk of iPod because iPod is the most recognizable MP3 player in Australia. Its the only one people have heard, so much that my School Chaplain (getting on in years, and foreign [Spanish]), when giving a talk on detaching one self from the material world, the only electronic device he could think of is the iPod (he said something on the line of 'one has to nag their mum to buy an iPod, and when they nag and nag eventually your mum will give in, and buy you an iPod, but then you'll find that your 40GB drive only holds 15,000 songs and you need to get a 60GB one). It was quite funny actually.
In vino veritas.
     
Randman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MacNN database error. Please refresh your browser.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 06:16 AM
 
No wonder that piracy is so bloody big in Oz. Silly law.

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.
     
OSX Abuser
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Silicon Valley
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 06:21 AM
 
Have you heard of the 'INDUCE' act in congress??
Read the bill here

The Senate heard strong opposition from the technology industry on Thursday about a bill that would hold tech companies responsible for creating devices that could be used to pirate digital content. But Sens. Orrin Hatch and Patrick Leahy, the sponsors of the bill, are determined to move forward with the legislation.


The Senate Judiciary Committee heard testimony about the Inducing Infringement of Copyrights Act -- otherwise known as the Induce Act (S. 2560). In its current form, the bill proposes to slap technology companies for making any device that could "induce" or encourage buyers to make illegal copies of songs, movies or computer programs. The bill, introduced by Hatch (R-Utah) and Leahy (D-Vermont), has garnered strong support from Hollywood and the music industry. But technology companies say the bill would kill innovation and potentially outlaw some of the most popular devices, including Apple's iPod.
Reality is the playground of the unimaginative
     
Randman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MacNN database error. Please refresh your browser.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 06:31 AM
 
Originally posted by OSX Abuser:
Have you heard of the 'INDUCE' act in congress??
Read the bill here
The act is silly but it's still an act, not law.

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.
     
Developer
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: europe
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 06:33 AM
 
Find the web site of the responsible ministry/departement and e-mail the minister/secretary an e-mail why the current law is no longer in touch with reality. Maybe point out why new uses of music (computer, mp3 player etc.) benefit both entertainment and music industry (by increased demand) as well as - of course - the customers.

If you're really serious write a real letter (snail mail).
Nasrudin sat on a river bank when someone shouted to him from the opposite side: "Hey! how do I get across?" "You are across!" Nasrudin shouted back.
     
xenu
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 07:22 AM
 
A law I , and all other Australians should ignore.

Just as I ignored it when I burned some music cd's for the car, earlier this evening.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
Cipher13
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 10:59 AM
 
In a word... meh.

I don't pay attention to stupid laws.

We'll see what they try to do to me.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 12:38 PM
 


-t
     
Eriamjh
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: BFE
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 09:45 PM
 
Originally posted by OSX Abuser:
Have you heard of the 'INDUCE' act in congress??
Read the bill here
Even if INDUCE passes, it is probably unconstitutional. Innocent until proven guilty applies to corporations too.

You can't arrest me for what haven't done yet (unless I conspire with someone).

I'm a bird. I am the 1% (of pets).
     
Ghoser777
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 10:21 PM
 
Isn't there are an assault weapons ban? I bet you would get arrested for selling those. If it's illegal, you can be arrested for selling it.
     
tavilach
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 3, 2004, 10:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Macfreak7:
More unnecessary negative publicity for Apple. Why the heck has the author focused on the iPod rather than saying ALL portable digital music players are relatively "useless" or something to that effect?
The problem is the enforcement of the law, there's no need to put a picture of the iPod on there.
If other online music stores are available in Australia, the iPod is singled out as the one that requires the unavailable iTunes software. Are they?
"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." -Archimedes
     
   
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:23 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,