[SimeyTheLimey]

Kerry says that if Bush is reelected, the draft will return. Link This is despite the fact that the military itself is opposed to the draft, the Administration has said repeatedly it is opposed to the draft, the only draft restoration bills have been introduced by Democrats, and the Republicans in Congress haven't acted on them.

This looks to me like shameless scaremongering. It's pure opinion because it is just a prediction. It can't be directly refuted because it isn't based on anything except his opinion (based on nothing) of what will happen. He just wants to scare voters with phantoms. Either that, or it is another feeble attempt to turn the election into 1968. Hey hey, ho ho, we don't want to go and all that.

[dcolton]

This surprises you? The same party who used the sae tactic against seasoned citizens?

[BlackGriffen]

Cheney said if Kerry is elected, we'll be attacked again.

Which is worse? There's at least evidence that Selective Service is gearing up. Cheney had no solid evidence for his claims.

BG

[PacHead]

Desperate people resort to desperate measures.

[itai195]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
This looks to me like shameless scaremongering.

So does this, but it would appear that almost nothing is off limits this election.

[Logic]

Is this the level of political discussion in the US? All of a sudden it has become clear why Bush and Kerry are your only options..........

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
Is this the level of political discussion in the US? All of a sudden it has become clear why Bush and Kerry are your only options..........

Yeah, too bad we don't live in Europe, where we can vote for the Nazis. Man, you guys are much more civilized and better than us, lol.

[MATTRESS]

[PacHead]

Here's a link, incase somebody comes with a Care to back that up� ? nonsense.

9 % of Germans today are degenerate fools.

The NPD's 9% in Saxony means that the party has gained seats in a German state assembly for the first time since 1968.

"It's a great day for Germans who still want to be Germans," said Holger Apfel, the NPD's leading candidate in Saxony.

Germany's government has described the NPD as a latter-day version of Hitler's Nazi Party and tried to ban it last year - a move rejected by the constitutional court.

http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory9...wsID-2712.html

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by itai195:
So does this, but it would appear that almost nothing is off limits this election.

Yeah, I remember that. I personally didn't read it the way Cheney has been spun as saying it. I listened to what he said (as opposed to reading a transcript) and I think he basically misspoke. It sounded to me like he was saying that if Kerry is elected and then we are hit again the danger is we will slip back into the law enforcement mindset and that would be an inadequate response.

I say this because in the spoken version there is a definite pause where he goes into the diversion of talking about being "hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States" and that confused things. It made what I think he was trying to say about a non-causal sequence of events into a causal sequence of events.

I don't think he really meant to say that terrorists would attack the US solely because Kerry was president not only because that would be a stupid thing to say, but because there is no way Bush is able to promise that we won't be struck again on his watch. In fact, ever since 9/11 Bush has been saying that more attacks in the US are possible. What he has been promising is that we wouldn't respond as if it is just a law enforcement operation. I think that was the distinction Cheney was trying (rather clumsily) to say. I put it down to be a too-economically spoken westerner who should have fleshed out his thoughts more.

However, as much as I think Cheney misspoke innocently, what he said was clumsy. I don't think the Kerry people did anything wrong by pouncing -- that's just regular politics. But this business about a draft can't be explained away as Kerry misspeaking. He knows what he is saying. He is deliberately trying to scare people.

[Nicko]

IMO the US election should be decided by a duel to the death. Since there are only 2 candidates anyway, it would be very easy to determine the winner. Also, just think of the reality TV potential!

[BRussell]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Kerry says that if Bush is reelected, the draft will return.

Answering a question about the draft that had been posed at a forum with voters, Kerry said: "If George Bush (news - web sites) were to be re-elected, given the way he has gone about this war and given his avoidance of responsibility in North Korea (news - web sites) and Iran and other places, is it possible? I can't tell you."

Meanwhile the Bush campaign says that Kerry is going to raise 18 trillion dollars in taxes (or whatever lie they're using now).

[SimeyTheLimey]

I'd like to think Kerry just misspoke, but:

Will draft fears sway voters?
Cleland and Dean tell students that Bush would conscript them and ship them to Iraq

By Tom Curry
National affairs writer
MSNBC
Updated: 6:39 p.m. ET Sept. 17, 2004


WASHINGTON - Elect John Kerry, Vice President Dick Cheney warned voters in Iowa two weeks ago, and America will get hit again by terrorists.

Elect George Bush, some Kerry surrogates said last week, and you or your children will be drafted to fight in Iraq.

Inspiring fear in voters seems to be in political vogue this fall. (Cheney has since amended his comments to say he meant to argue that Bush has a more serious approach to deterring terrorists than does Kerry.)

Some voters seem inclined to believe that Bush would attempt to revive conscription, which ended 31 years ago. During a question-and-answer session on Wednesday, the mother of a recent West Virginia University graduate asked Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards whether the draft would be reinstated.

"There will be no draft when John Kerry is president," the North Carolina senator vowed, raising the question of whether there would be a draft if Bush remains in the White House.

Edwards� comment came on the heels of remarks last week by Kerry�s friend and fellow Vietnam War veteran, former Georgia Sen. Max Cleland.

Warning college students
In a speech at Colorado College in Colorado Springs, Cleland told students they might find themselves pressed into military service if Bush wins a second term.

�America will reinstate the military draft� if Bush is re-elected and continues the Iraq War, Cleland predicted, according to an account of his speech by the Colorado Springs Gazette.

"Pay attention ... to what you've got going on in Iraq. That, ladies and gentlemen, is Vietnam. I've seen this movie before. I know how it ends. It does not end pleasantly," he added. Cleland has been in a wheelchair since 1968 when he lost both legs and one arm in a grenade accident in Vietnam.

Former Kerry rival Howard Dean, now traveling the country to drum up support for Kerry and raise money for Democratic candidates, said last week at Brown University in Providence, R.I., "I think that George Bush is certainly going to have a draft if he goes into a second term, and any young person that doesn't want to go to Iraq might think twice about voting for him."

The Dean-Cleland strategy seems to be an attempt to drive up support for Kerry among college students and perhaps among some parents as well.

According to Kerry campaign spokesman Mark Kitchens, Kerry�s position is that he does not see the need for a draft.

MSNBC

Campaigns don't suddenly have spokespersons all say the same thing by accident.

[CreepingDeth]

Like taxes? Huh?

Oh, nice sig. I guess being fiscal responsible is more taxes and more spending.

[djohnson]

Do they have a magic time machine or something? Just wait until the debates and I bet something like this will come up.

[zen jihad]

It is opinion, but probably based on decent observation. If things carry on as they are, and the US decides to illegally invade more nations, then we'll see more US casualties and this the need to re-plenish them.

At some point, members of the coalition of the gullible will not stand by the US' unilateral actions, and you'll find that troop shortages will hit the US hard as they try to maintain their presence as invaders, occupoers, rebuilders, and so on.

Already the UN has warned the US to not consider anymore unilateral actions; the UK is known to be opposed to any military action on Iran. So let's say Uncle Sammy decides to go bully some more people, they need an awful lot of troops to bolster up thise fronts.

Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan. The world was told they would be their as rebuilders, but that is proving far harder than expected. So what wil the US do next when they decide to 'pacify' a country THEY deem to be a threat to their national security? Just bomb them with no post-war plan, as in Iraq? Will the world stand by and allow the US to just do that?

So taking all of this into consideration. I reckon if the US carries on its current intentions, then the draft wil be necessary in the not too distant future.

If they did, be nice to know that a few of the right-winger haters in here will be pre-occupied with fighting in a foreign land, for a cause they hardly understand.


Look forward to the next installment of goobers and hicks in Iraq

[dcolton]

Originally posted by zen jihad:
It is opinion, but probably based on decent observation. If things carry on as they are, and the US decides to illegally invade more nations, then we'll see more US casualties and this the need to re-plenish them.

At some point, members of the coalition of the gullible will not stand by the US' unilateral actions, and you'll find that troop shortages will hit the US hard as they try to maintain their presence as invaders, occupoers, rebuilders, and so on.

Already the UN has warned the US to not consider anymore unilateral actions; the UK is known to be opposed to any military action on Iran. So let's say Uncle Sammy decides to go bully some more people, they need an awful lot of troops to bolster up thise fronts.

Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan. The world was told they would be their as rebuilders, but that is proving far harder than expected. So what wil the US do next when they decide to 'pacify' a country THEY deem to be a threat to their national security? Just bomb them with no post-war plan, as in Iraq? Will the world stand by and allow the US to just do that?

So taking all of this into consideration. I reckon if the US carries on its current intentions, then the draft wil be necessary in the not too distant future.

If they did, be nice to know that a few of the right-winger haters in here will be pre-occupied with fighting in a foreign land, for a cause they hardly understand.


Look forward to the next installment of goobers and hicks in Iraq

WTF is the UN gonna do? Sanction the US? Invade us with its massive army?

[PacHead]

Oh No ! The UN has WARNED us ! LOL - Funny of the day !

The UN doesn't even have the balls to handle a two bit thug like Saddam. Yep, we need to be afraid, very afraid, and take their warnings seriously.

[smacintush]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Oh No ! The UN has WARNED us ! LOL - Funny of the day !

The UN doesn't even have the balls to handle a two bit thug like Saddam. Yep, we need to be afraid, very afraid, and take their warnings seriously.

I think were supposed to automatically respect the UN�er�sumthin'�

[PacHead]

Originally posted by smacintush:
I think were supposed to automatically respect the UN�er�sumthin'�

Kofi annan and a few of his goons should be put in jail, and I laugh at the UN. They have as much credibility as osama bin laden. Criminal, impotent thugs and terror appeasers is what they are.

[Solomon Grundy]

I am 100% for the draft, perhaps it would shut the yaps of all the yahoos in here if they were actually faced with service.

[Solomon Grundy]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Kofi annan and a few of his goons should be put in jail, and I laugh at the UN. They have as much credibility as osama bin laden. Criminal, impotent thugs and terror appeasers is what they are.

Criminal how so?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Solomon Grundy:
Criminal how so?

Genocide, Oil for food scandal, war crimes, supporting terrorists etc.

[MATTRESS]

The UN needs to be thrown off American soil.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I'd like to think Kerry just misspoke, but:

Based on your original quote, it appeared to be a standard answer to a question, and your characterization utterly false. But if it is a planned strategy, good for them. They need to fight just like the Republicans: dirty.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by MATTRESS:
The UN needs to be thrown off American soil.

Think of all the bums and Starbucks we could put in that spot!
The UN can go to Brussels.

[Solomon Grundy]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Genocide, Oil for food scandal, war crimes, supporting terrorists etc.

The UN is guilty of committing genocide? That is news to me. The US supports terrorism and has committed war crimes.

[placebo1969]

Originally posted by Solomon Grundy:
I am 100% for the draft, perhaps it would shut the yaps of all the yahoos in here if they were actually faced with service.

I wrote this in another thread about the draft:
In 1991 when I thought I was about to graduate from college, I considering joining the Army through OCS (Officer Candidate School) and work in the CID (or is it the CIC now?). Less than a year later (I was a Senior), I was diagnosed with Hodgkin�s Lymphoma (cancer) and had to drop out of school obviously. When I went back to school and graduated in 1993, I spoke briefly with a recruiter, but was told I have a life long ban from military service (no spleen, other issues). Also, I can�t give blood like I did during the Gulf War, which is unfortunately since I�m O-neg, universal donor. Oh, I will have been in remission for 12 years this October.

So, yes, I would probably join, but obviously can't.

[icruise]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Kerry says that if Bush is reelected, the draft will return. Link

What does that link have to do with what you are talking about?

[Solomon Grundy]

Originally posted by Icruise:
What does that link have to do with what you are talking about?

Nothing but that is the MO

[Logic]

Originally posted by placebo1969:
Oh, I will have been in remission for 12 years this October.

Good to hear

[placebo1969]

Originally posted by Logic:
Good to hear

Thanks.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Kerry says that if Bush is reelected, the draft will return. Link This is despite the fact that the military itself is opposed to the draft, the Administration has said repeatedly it is opposed to the draft, the only draft restoration bills have been introduced by Democrats, and the Republicans in Congress haven't acted on them.

This looks to me like shameless scaremongering. It's pure opinion because it is just a prediction. It can't be directly refuted because it isn't based on anything except his opinion (based on nothing) of what will happen. He just wants to scare voters with phantoms. Either that, or it is another feeble attempt to turn the election into 1968. Hey hey, ho ho, we don't want to go and all that.

This is totally innovative.

Let's scare people with baseless warnings of Doom if voters don't do the Right Thing�.

I thought you guys were in a state of sarcemongering since Bush was elected! Didn't it start with warnings about energy already in 2001?

[CreepingDeth]

Angaq0k, I know you don't like capitalism but hush for a momment.
Explain to me why Bush would bring back the draft and for what reasons. In your own words. Let's hear it.

Look at this pic I found via Drudge:

What a salute!

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Icruise:
What does that link have to do with what you are talking about?

Nothing now. Yahoo has changed the story that links to. The story was an AP one so maybe someone knows how to track down a current link.

Edit: here it is.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Angaq0k, I know you don't like capitalism but hush for a momment.
Explain to me why Bush would bring back the draft and for what reasons. In your own words. Let's hear it.

Look at this pic I found via Drudge:

What a salute!

Wtf?

I am just as capitalistic as you are! Your own fantasies about your surroundings have nothing to with reality: wake up!!!

About the draft, I have no idea if Bush will do it or not. And I could not care less: you want to go fight, then stop complaining and act upon it instead of lecturing others about their "duties".

My post is refering to Simey's venture in the space of "scaremongering" as if it is a new tactic coming from the democrats...

Simey knows very well, as politically versed he is, that "scaremongering" is the basic tool used in the course of controlling populations.

He is actually playing the card of "democrats are bad because see what I found? they are scaremongerers!!!"

And everyone swallows those words like their survival depends on it...

There is not one political party in the world that has never used at least once that tactic...

Bush used that tactic right at the beginning of his mandate when he presented his so call policy on energy. The message was clear then: we need energy at all cost and we won't do a thing to save it.

Then that stupid Bin Laden came around by blasting WTC. Revenge is fine then: justice has to be made. But everythhing afterwards was pure manipulations of the masses and fed Bush self-importance. NMothing new under the sun. All of them politicians, whatever their nations, background, country and blablabla have used the same damn tactic of scaring people who are ignorant of reality to gain control, or at least, influence them.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Lileks has hopped into his time machine and given us the transcript of Bush and Kerry's exchange on the subject from the upcoming debates:

Senator Kerry, you�ve said that President Bush intends to reinstate the draft. On what evidence do you base this assertion?

�This president has consistently underestimated the nature of the threat, and the nature of the forces we need to deal with, and confront, in this new century, and in doing so has placed us in a position where we find ourselves overextended. And alone. And we�re the target. I have a plan to bring our allies to the table, to forge new alliances as well as strengthen old ones, in such a way that fills out our options and gives us the flexibility to meet the changing needs of today with a military that will not be asked to shoulder the burdens of the world, when the world itself has a stake in these obligations. That�s what I meant when I suggested that there might be a draft in a second term of this president. He has boxed us in to a situation where our only solution to our go-it-alone policy might well be forced conscription of our young people, and I�m against it.�

Thank you. President Bush?

"There won�t be a draft."

(Pause) (Pause.) (Pause) (Bush grin) (Scattered laughter)

"I don�t know what else there is to say. There won�t be a draft. We�re going to move some forces around, uh, change our strategies. My opponent wants more German participation, and that�s fine with me. You know, they have a draft. Nine months, have to serve. I�d rather American men and women choose to join, choose to serve. Peace Corps, National Guard, our Armed Forces, however. But it�s up to them. Choices. We have the greatest armed services on the planet, and see, it�s because they want to serve. Love of country. And that�s a tradition I want to maintain. If my opponent has some inside information about plans to bring back the draft, I�d be happy to take a look, as long as he didn�t get it from some fellow in Texas who says he found the plans in a wastebasket."

[icruise]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Lileks has hopped into his time machine and given us the transcript of Bush and Kerry's exchange on the subject from the upcoming debates:

"Read my lips: No draft."

[OreoCookie]

Well, it was said that electing Kerry would increase the chance of another terrorist attack, so I'm not sure it would be smart to single one side out. Spin doctors give me a headache.

It seems anyway that most things currently going on are intended to scare the people and the so-called counter measures have little (or no) effect, but making problems for a senator and the man formerly known as Cat Stevens.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Here's a link, incase somebody comes with a Care to back that up� ? nonsense.

9 % of Germans today are degenerate fools.

The NPD's 9% in Saxony means that the party has gained seats in a German state assembly for the first time since 1968.

"It's a great day for Germans who still want to be Germans," said Holger Apfel, the NPD's leading candidate in Saxony.

Germany's government has described the NPD as a latter-day version of Hitler's Nazi Party and tried to ban it last year - a move rejected by the constitutional court.

http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory9...wsID-2712.html

Now, 9 % of Saxons = 9 % of Germans?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Now, 9 % of Saxons = 9 % of Germans?

You are correct. Swtich out the word Germans with Saxons in my post.

I don't know the total figure of Germans which voted for the Nazis in the last elections. Either way, anything more than 0% is outrageous.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by PacHead:
I don't know the total figure of Germans which voted for the Nazis in the last elections. Either way, anything more than 0% is outrageous.

1 %

[Cody Dawg]

If you ask me, Teresa is the scary one.

[Cody Dawg]

(Can you imagine those two rolling around in the hay together? FREAKY.)

[PacHead]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
1 %

Who are you mad at ? Me, or the Nazi German scum ?

The neo-Nazis of the National Democratic party of Germany [NPD], a party the Schroder government tried and failed to have banned last year because of its extremist views, took a projected 9% in Saxony and 12 seats in the state parliament in Dresden, only one short of Mr Schroder's party.

1 seat less than Schroder ? Heil !

And if Germans aren't busy loving the Nazis, they apparently also love the commies.

The overall winner in the two polls, however, is the hard left. The Party of Democratic Socialism [PDS], successor to the old East German Communist party, scored its best result, with about 28% of the vote in Brandenburg, the rural state surrounding Berlin.

In Saxony the PDS took a projected 23%. It is running second in both polls.

Way to go Germany !

At this rate, they'll probably be gassing some jews again in a decade or two. Don't you just love those Europeans ?

[icruise]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
(Can you imagine those two rolling around in the hay together? FREAKY.)

Thanks for confirming my opinion of you, iWrite.

[Cody Dawg]

At this rate, they'll probably be gassing some jews again in a decade or two. Don't you just love those Europeans ?

You don't really think that do you?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
You don't really think that do you?

No, I don't really believe it, though I also do not rule anything out.

They were dumb enough to do it before, why not again ?

Todays Europeans aren't any smarter than their grandparents.

[Cody Dawg]

Yeah, you're right about that, probably. I agree with most of everything you say anyway.

[finboy]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Well, it was said that electing Kerry would increase the chance of another terrorist attack, so I'm not sure it would be smart to single one side out.

No, check your transcripts. Spin doctors indeed.