[Randman]

Gee, Apple is the first company to ever use such tactics in trying to sell a product. And most of your arguments are silly.
Get real.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
heh. In bold print, too.

#2 It doesn't crash

Well, "It hardly ever crashes" doesn't sound as good, does it?

Let's face it, there is NO SUCH THING as a computer that doesn't crash. I don't care WHAT computer or WHAT operating system it's running, but it will crash eventually.

What's more important is the perceived frequency of said crashes. Subjectively, OS X tends to crash a lot less than Windows XP, which tends to crash a lot less than Windows 9x. Statistically, there may be no difference between OS X and Windows XP.

One would have to put two machines running side by side with a typical set-up with typical applications and watch people using the machines and physically recording the number of times each machine crashes in a given time period... say, three months. Then you could say with a bit more certainty that "one machine crashed less"

[Person Man]

Originally posted by macintologist:

[Yet again, what Apple fails to mention is that Microsoft Access does not come on the Mac, thus distorting the truth when claiming that Office is on the Mac. That is a half truth, and Apple propaganda at its finest.

Do they have to explicitly say that? The question was "Does Microsoft Office run on the Macintosh?" Most people aren't even aware that Microsoft Office even EXISTS on the Mac. THAT'S what this question is addressing.

Also, go look at Microsoft's PC office lineup. You'll see that Microsoft Office 2003 STANDARD edition DOESN'T EVEN COME WITH ACCESS. You have to buy the Professional Edition for that. The AVERAGE home user will buy either the Student & Teacher Edition or the Standard Edition, NOT the professional version. Guess what, no Access in either one for the PC, JUST LIKE THE MAC VERSION. No half truth there.

Remember, the site is geared towards your average HOME user.

Apple's propaganda causes many Mac users to believe that Macs are immune to security breaches, which is blatantly false

Apple doesn't say that "Macs are immune." They say they "are more secure out of the box," which is completely true. A machine with all internet services open right out of the box is going to be less secure than one with all internet services closed right out of the box. It is Mac users themselves that think Macs are immune. Apple has nothing to do with it, because they are stating a fact, by saying "more secure."

Only an idiot would say "more secure equals immune."

What would you have Apple say? "Macs are more secure out of the box but that doesn't mean they're immune?" C'mon!

[macintologist]

I never said Apple said Macs are immune, I said Apple propaganda causes Mac fanboys to believe they are, which is true.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Person Man:
[B]Remember, the site is geared towards your average HOME user.

Absolutely false

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Person Man:
Well, "It hardly ever crashes" doesn't sound as good, does it?

Let's face it, there is NO SUCH THING as a computer that doesn't crash. I don't care WHAT computer or WHAT operating system it's running, but it will crash eventually.

What's more important is the perceived frequency of said crashes. Subjectively, OS X tends to crash a lot less than Windows XP, which tends to crash a lot less than Windows 9x. Statistically, there may be no difference between OS X and Windows XP.

One would have to put two machines running side by side with a typical set-up with typical applications and watch people using the machines and physically recording the number of times each machine crashes in a given time period... say, three months. Then you could say with a bit more certainty that "one machine crashed less"

How dare you draw equivalents between the Mac and a PC! (piece of crap)

Apple holds the higher ground. I expect more from them than cheap PC-trash talk and outright lies and distortions of the truth.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Randman:
Gee, Apple is the first company to ever use such tactics in trying to sell a product. And most of your arguments are silly.
Get real.

Everything I said in my post is true, whether you like it or not. I don't appreciate fanboys

[Person Man]

Originally posted by macintologist:
I never said Apple said Macs are immune, I said Apple propaganda causes Mac fanboys to believe they are, which is true.

No, it doesn't. In this specific case, there is no propaganda other than that manufactured by the "fanboys." In this instance, the propaganda is manufactured by them, NOT APPLE.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Absolutely false

Ok. That guy is a SMALL BUSINESS user. Microsoft Office 2003 Small Business Edition doesn't include Access either.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Everything I said in my post is true, whether you like it or not. I don't appreciate fanboys

Ok, so he's a "fanboy," for pointing out that Apple is no better than any other PC company when it comes to sales and marketing??? Oh my God, the sky is falling!!!!!!!1111oneoneone

[theolein]

Macintologist: If you really want high quality hardware, the one company in the business that does make high quality is IBM. The Thinkpads are incredibly robust machines.... with a price to match. They cost as much as or more than Powerbooks. And even IBM has had recall actions on some models of Thinkpad.

And although I personally use and much prefer Macs and OSX, I have used and would use WinXP on a PC if I had to. It works very well actually and is neither as as bad a some mac freaks make it out to be or as unstable as Apple claims. It's just marketing that Apple does to get people to switch, and if it works, all the more power to them, but Dell, HP, Sony and others all do this.

In reality Apple's quality is a bit, and I emphasize, a bit, better than most PC's as Apple invests more into Design than most PC manufacturers do in order to gain profile, something which most PC manufacturers can't afford to do becuase of the low margins. But Apple's engineers and designers are as human as anyone else and they also make mistakes.

It's your choice. Use your brains and go and spend some time with a PC. If it works for you, then switch to the PC and let Apple know why you did.

I'll stick with my Mac until someone buys me a Thinkpad, thank you, although, even then I'd probably still stay with my Mac or at least use it as a second machine.

[PJW]

Originally posted by macintologist:
To those who question my loyalty.... I am a TRUE Mac fanatic, because I give criticism where criticism is due and not blindly follow the Apple manifesto like a lot of you.

Apple is higher than the rest of the industry. When you subscribe to the Mac, you are subscribing to an ideology.

Apple should not be misleading potential converts into an ideology on false premises. Lying to people to get them to subscribe to ideology is unethical and WRONG!

This isn't an ideology, it's a COMPUTER. If you don't like the way Apple works, then you can give your business to a different company. It's that simple.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by theolein:
Macintologist: If you really want high quality hardware, the one company in the business that does make high quality is IBM. The Thinkpads are incredibly robust machines.... with a price to match. They cost as much as or more than Powerbooks. And even IBM has had recall actions on some models of Thinkpad.

And although I personally use and much prefer Macs and OSX, I have used and would use WinXP on a PC if I had to. It works very well actually and is neither as as bad a some mac freaks make it out to be or as unstable as Apple claims. It's just marketing that Apple does to get people to switch, and if it works, all the more power to them, but Dell, HP, Sony and others all do this.

In reality Apple's quality is a bit, and I emphasize, a bit, better than most PC's as Apple invests more into Design than most PC manufacturers do in order to gain profile, something which most PC manufacturers can't afford to do becuase of the low margins. But Apple's engineers and designers are as human as anyone else and they also make mistakes.

It's your choice. Use your brains and go and spend some time with a PC. If it works for you, then switch to the PC and let Apple know why you did.

I'll stick with my Mac until someone buys me a Thinkpad, thank you, although, even then I'd probably still stay with my Mac or at least use it as a second machine.

How dare you even suggest
I buy a PC!

Once a Mac user, always a Mac user. I'm just not a fanboy like a lot of the fools here who apologize for Apple's lies and distortions and draw moral equivalents between Apple and Microsoft.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by PJW:
This isn't an ideology, it's a COMPUTER. If you don't like the way Apple works, then you can give your business to a different company. It's that simple.

You obviously have a very miniscule understanding of Apple history. I suggest you order this book

[turtle777]

Originally posted by macintologist:
How dare you even suggest
I buy a PC!

Once a Mac user, always a Mac user. I'm just not a fanboy like a lot of the fools here who apologize for Apple's lies and distortions and draw moral equivalents between Apple and Microsoft.

WTF is wrong with you, macintologist ?
Your bickering is annoying !

Calm down, take a cookie:



-t

[macintologist]

Originally posted by turtle777:
WTF is wrong with you, macintologist ?
Your bickering is annoying !

Calm down, take a cookie:



-t

You're playing right into my hands

[bradoesch]

Carefully read the text for #2 (italics are mine)


Are you just a tad too well acquainted with the notorious �blue screen of death?� Bid it a fond farewell.
Referring to Windows 95-XP
With Mac OS X, you�ll become accustomed instead to industry-leading stability.
Nothing outrageous
In this elegant new operating system, memory is fully protected and applications can�t conflict with the OS or one another.
The opposite of OS 9, which they obviously won't come right out and say
And, oh yes, Mac OS X is built on the industrial strength of UNIX. Most Fortune 500 companies, governments and universities rely on UNIX for their mission-critical applications. And now, so can you.
Again, nothing outrageous

The big problem must be with the title. This is mostly a comparison to OS 9, which crashed frequently and didn't have protected memory.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by bradoesch:
The big problem must be with the title. This is mostly a comparison to OS 9, which crashed frequently and didn't have protected memory.

Bah! Logic and common sense has no place here!

[hagheid]

I initially had a crash due to a Canon driver; he stopped suddenly at a junction.

[PJW]

Originally posted by macintologist:
You obviously have a very miniscule understanding of Apple history. I suggest you order this book

This is ridiculous. You're pathetic and childish, and I'm done with you.

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by macintologist:
You obviously have a very miniscule understanding of Apple history. I suggest you order this book

the book isn't written by apple

[macintologist]

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
the book isn't written by apple

Not but it tells the truth about Apple, and isn't propaganda.

[d.fine]

Every company lies to make their products seem more attractive, and according to you Apple is the only one that can't get away with it ? How many other products have you bought after being influenced by malicious propaganda ? Are you pissed at those companies too ? I hope you are ...

[MilkmanDan]

I was like writing my paper on the PC, and it was like "beep beep beep beep." And then, like, half of my paper was gone, and I was like "eh." It devourer my paper. It was a really good paper. And then I had to write it again, and I had to do it fast so it wasn't as good. It was like... a bummer.

No wait. That wasn't me. That was Ellen. And she was probably high. Still the best switch ad ever.

[Jan Van Boghout]

I really hope this thread is an elaborate joke, you are calling others fanboys while you keep ranting about how suggesting to use a PC is blashemy? Jeeeez... This malicious propaganda is called advertising, should I complain to the dishwasher company next because the glasses don't spark like on TV?

[ebuddy]

I bought the tangerine iMac 266mhz, no problems whatsoever, lasted 6 years and eventually ran Jaguar 'til I finally burnt out the heat synch or some such thing I'm not willing to risk my life on CRT fixing. Oh well, got my use out of it to be honest with you. That little bugger chugged away on song files, etc...and made a nice first computer for the kids when I got my next purchase...

I then bought first version Tibook, 500mhz-screen went black within first month. Returned it to apple who replaced a ribbon immediately, sent it back within same week, and voila! No problems since. Eventually, had a couple of kernal panics-went online here and elsewhere and found out it had something to do with OSX acknowledgement of RAM or RAM in general. Ran Hardware Test, grabbed the ailing module, replaced it w/ Crucial RAM-good to go ever since!

I now have a dual 2gig G5 and w/ 20" Cinema Display. No dead pixels, no problems at all with monitor. Couldn't be happier. BUT, had several kernal panics on G5. I was livid at the time. I've never heard of computers being so damned finicky w/ RAM!!! Went online here and elsewhere and found out it was probably going to be...you guessed it...RAM. Replaced with Crucial RAM for G5 and voila! No troubles ever since. Every now and then I get a freeze from Digital Performer 4.1.2, but that's the only program that gives me guff and only if I hard/close the app. (i.e. don't close the song file first, then the app). If I close the song file first, then the app...never a problem.

To sum up, this is the 3rd Mac purchase including one "Version A" and have not had any real trouble with the products. In those instances where I did have trouble, I immediately found help and found Apple customer service to be second to none. Talk to Dell owners, this is just not the case for them. This speaks volumes to me.

That said; I've never met more capitalist pigs. I mean they average 50% higher in cost than the competition and ya think when new products come out, they'll drop the price on the old ones??? NOPE. Okay, maybe $20.00. Apple is stingy to be sure and I've never quite understood their pricing scheme especially w/ iPod, but the product is second to none and I must defer to "you get what you pay for." I'm just warning you, don't let the "liberal" tag on Jobs fool you into believing he's not a capitalist pig. His company's as bad as they get, but I like him and them, what're ya gonna do? Keep buying Apple products that's what I'm going to do. I'm no victim in this, I believe I'm getting my money's worth-it just takes me several years after each purchase to realize it! I use Windows @ work and I'm so tired of seeing multiple windows pop up for apps I didn't select, DR. WATSON IS SATAN!!! If I see one more Dr. Watson error window I'm going to lose it. [okay] [close] [okay] [close] [okay] [close] AHHHHHH!!! While having come a long way, Windows is still a clunkety son of a gun.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
I really hope this thread is an elaborate joke, you are calling others fanboys while you keep ranting about how suggesting to use a PC is blashemy? Jeeeez... This malicious propaganda is called advertising, should I complain to the dishwasher company next because the glasses don't spark like on TV?

No you shouldn't, because we hold Apple to a higher standard. Again, why do you and so many others put Apple at the same level as all these other companies that make mediocre products and don't innovate, like Microshit?

[Person Man]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
I've never heard of computers being so damned finicky w/ RAM!!!

The reason is that OS X uses RAM much more intensely than other computers. The RAM therefore absolutely needs to be perfectly within specifications. This means it must adhere to the tolerances set by the standard.

Most cheap RAM is either marginally in spec, or is actually memory that is of lower quality that is not in spec but that "works in most PCs" because most PCs are much more forgiving of out of spec memory.

In the case of Macs, "you get what you pay for," when it comes to memory, too. But, you can still get quality RAM at cheaper prices than what Apple charges for it, as you've found out.

[Randman]

My opinion: The creator of this thread is very young and naive. He doesn't really get the meaning of fanboy and uses it quite liberally, though usually in the wrong context.
Just as a stray cat, if people quit posting and feeding his moments in the sun, he'll go away quietly.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Randman:
My opinion: The creator of this thread is very young and naive. He doesn't really get the meaning of fanboy and uses it quite liberally, though usually in the wrong context.
Just as a stray cat, if people quit posting and feeding his moments in the sun, he'll go away quietly.

Or you could try to get the thread locked.
Last time I did this it cost me 1000 pc, but it was worth it.

-t

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Randman:
My opinion: The creator of this thread is very young and naive. He doesn't really get the meaning of fanboy and uses it quite liberally, though usually in the wrong context.
Just as a stray cat, if people quit posting and feeding his moments in the sun, he'll go away quietly.

I am young, but not naive.

I know what fanboy I've seen it used many times on macnn. That's how humans acquire knowledge, is through listening and then imitating. That's how we are similar to primates.

You have to admit the premise of the thread is original though. Has anyone ever liken Apple's advertising to propaganda?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Apple holds the higher ground. I expect more from them than cheap PC-trash talk and outright lies and distortions of the truth.

Holy ****, dude.

Apple's a stock-holders' business, not a ****ing church. They're here because they make money, not because your conscience needs to stylize them to moral superiority.

[Spliffdaddy]

The same could be said for Microsoft, Dell, HP, etc

What was it, again, that sets Apple apart from these other companies?

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:

What was it, again, that sets Apple apart from these other companies?

They make an uncrashable OS on the fastest hardware that ever existed, combined with aesthetics unmatched in any industry.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Apple's a stock-holders' business, not a ****ing church.

You just scattered many people's world !

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
The same could be said for Microsoft, Dell, HP, etc

What was it, again, that sets Apple apart from these other companies?

1.) A completely different, user-first approach to product development.

2.) taste.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
The same could be said for Microsoft, Dell, HP, etc

What was it, again, that sets Apple apart from these other companies?

Owning and using a Mac is an ideology.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ideology
A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.

[hagheid]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Owning and using a Mac is a tautology.

Ficxd

[Link]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
The same could be said for Microsoft, Dell, HP, etc

What was it, again, that sets Apple apart from these other companies?

Microsoft doesn't make their own computers, Dell, HP and etc don't make their own OS.

Apple uses their great OS skills to sell their *cough* *cough* hardware. Admittedly, they don't do a half bad job as having expensive Apple hardware (like an ipod or a powermac/cinema display, or even a g4 imac), is kinda like a status symbol. (powerbook/ibook and ipod owners are the biggest flaunters of this).

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Not but it tells the truth about Apple, and isn't propaganda.

its one person's opinion of apple.

[MacGorilla]

OSX can't run my l33t appz d00d!

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Or you could try to get the thread locked.
Last time I did this it cost me 1000 pc, but it was worth it.

-t

I wonder if you can get a negative post count?

[bradoesch]

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
I wonder if you can get a negative post count?

You can. I think Ca$h was into the negatives once.

[jbartone]

You make me laugh. It sounds like you're running a presidential campaign.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by bradoesch:
You can. I think Ca$h was into the negatives once.

Yeah he did. Demon used to lower my post count.

I guess he was doing it for a few months before I ever even noticed.

[Link]

No, that was my count that got sent into negatives! I think it said something like recovering from macnn, lol.

Everyone was jealous of my "stars"

[Mister Elf]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Do you appreciate Apple systematically lying to you? For example, what if you were one of the first 15" AlBook owners, and Apple systematically pumped you with hype about the Powerbook, only for you to find out that you have a whitespot. Doesn't that make Apple propaganda wrong?

Enjoy the rest of that heroin...

[macintologist]

Originally posted by Mister Elf:
Enjoy the rest of that heroin...

This coming from a Dell owner... Is it just me or do Dell owners always resort to ad hominem?

I'm thinking of adding an iPod section.

[hardcat1970]

this comparison is not fair because not every 15" powerbook has white spots to begin with.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by hardcat1970:
this comparison is not fair because not every 15" powerbook has white spots to begin with.

So Apple should say, The Powerbook is the best laptop in the world.....However there are some reports of whitespots, FYI!