[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by nica:
167MHz system bus Apple's killing me!

I hope the 2.0 GHz 7448 on a 200 MHz bus in the next Powerbook update will resurrect you .

[macdaemon]

Originally posted by nica:
167MHz system bus Apple's killing me! They don't want me to upgrade.

Yes, I've looked their site and wanted to scream, sucks!
I have better system on the moment that they offer!
Upgrade, no way, only if it will be something radical new, with 64 bit CPU inside or dual core G4, but at the moment 1.25Ghz or 1.67Gzh doesn't make any sense. 420Mhz, well not much of performance, specially with my 7200rpm HD. What's the point? I'll wait for G5 revison B, when I'll see the real performance boost, at the moment I don't see it.

[EdipisReks]

nice systems, but no where near enough to get my to upgrade.

[Mafia]

Originally posted by nica:
167MHz system bus Apple's killing me! They don't want me to upgrade.

i'm just thinking if they could make it higher they would. but these are speed bumps and thats it, maybe apple is just saving everything big for the next style.

[Phiber]

Enough to get me to get a Powerbook as opposed to an iBook though.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I hope the 2.0 GHz 7448 on a 200 MHz bus in the next Powerbook update will resurrect you .

More importantly, the 7448 has 1 MB L2. Clock for clock, the 7448 will be significantly faster than the 7447B in the current PowerBooks, even at the same bus speed.

[SEkker]

Originally posted by Phiber:
Enough to get me to get a Powerbook as opposed to an iBook though.

Exactly the point of this update -- give people a real reason to go for the PBs instead of the iBooks.

I think the 5400 rpm HDs (up to 100 GB) and the PB17 ability to drive the 30" ACD are significant updates to the lineup.

Personally, I am still going to wait for the next boost in processors before I upgrade me revA PB17 -- I find this to be a terrific machine, and the 7200 rpm HD I installed gives it a nice speed boost in spite of the 1 GHz CPU.

[maxintosh]

Not enough of an upgrade to jump from my 3-year-old 1 GHz TiBook.

I'm waiting for the 12" to be more powerful. Then just get an external LCD for when I'm at home.

[Eug]

Originally posted by maxintosh:
Not enough of an upgrade to jump from my 3-year-old 1 GHz TiBook

Your TiBook is barely 2 years old.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I still don't see the value in the 12" powerbook next to the 12" iBook.

Is the price difference worth it?

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Eug:
More importantly, the 7448 has 1 MB L2. Clock for clock, the 7448 will be significantly faster than the 7447B in the current PowerBooks, even at the same bus speed.

Yes, I know, and I believe this will be the successor of 7447B in the Powerbooks, not the G5.

[Voch]

Originally posted by maxintosh:
Not enough of an upgrade to jump from my 3-year-old 1 GHz TiBook.

I'm waiting for the 12" to be more powerful. Then just get an external LCD for when I'm at home.

Ditto. I'll buy a 12"-whatever when my AppleCare is up.

Voch

[SuperDad]

Comparing the specs of the prior 15" 1.5gigHz to the new 1.67gig 15"--Did anyone notice that the 15" lost 0.1 pounds of ugly fat? Where did it go?
5.6 lbs now! Oooo, I can carry in my case an extra chocolate bar through LAX without feeling weighed down...

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by StiZeven:
I am very glad Apple finally incorporated Touchpad Scrolling. But, I am not sure I understand - how is Apple's touchpad 'Scroll' feature any different (or better) than the scroll feature used (for ages) on most PC notebooks? I've been using horizontal and vertical scrolling for years.

The difference is that in most PC scrolling, there are designated scrolling zones (a la SideTrack), but the new Macs let you just scroll by using 2 fingers on the TrackPad at once. You can also set things up to do iPod-like scrolling: counter-clockwise to scroll up, clockwise to scroll down.

Unfortunately, old AlBook users won't be able to enjoy the feature with their older touchpads.

And this isn't just a software change, according to Moody -- it's a physical difference in how the TrackPad works.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/01...book/index.php

[Voch]

Originally posted by SuperDad:
Comparing the specs of the prior 15" 1.5gigHz to the new 1.67gig 15"--Did anyone notice that the 15" lost 0.1 pounds of ugly fat? Where did it go?
5.6 lbs now! Oooo, I can carry in my case an extra chocolate bar through LAX without feeling weighed down...

Speculation: maybe they finally integrated Airport Extreme onto the motherboard instead of adding a card. Or did they do that in the last rev? Otherwise it's likely just some motherboard consolidation.

Voch

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I still don't see the value in the 12" powerbook next to the 12" iBook.

Is the price difference worth it?

12" iBook 1.2 GHz
� 512MB DDR266 SDRAM (256MB built-in & 256MB SO-DIMM)
� 60GB Ultra ATA drive
� Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
� AirPort Extreme Card
� Bluetooth Module
� ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 w/ 32MB DDR video memory
$1199

12" PowerBook 1.5 GHz
� 512MB DDR333 (256MB built-in + 256MB SO-DIMM)
� 60GB Ultra ATA drive @5400rpm
� Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
� AirPort Extreme Card
� Bluetooth built-in
� NVIDIA GeForce FX GO 5200 with 64MB DDR Video Memory
$1499

Benefits you get for $300:

300 more CPU MHz
33 more bus MHz
CoreImage capable GPU
32 MB more GPU memory
Scrolling trackpad
Lighter weight
Better keyboard
5400 rpm hard drive
DVI
Extra speaker
Audio line-in
Official monitor spanning support

I think for $300 it's definitely worth it. Plus you can get the SuperDrive in the 12" PowerBook. If I were buying now I'd get the PowerBook for sure. However, I'm going to wait for the next revision.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Better keyboard
Extra speaker

What do you mean by those 2? Also where are you getting these prices from? I see a much larger price difference.

Also, did the old Albooks have the airport antenna's in the lid?

[Eug Wanker]

Better keyboard
Extra speaker

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
What do you mean by those 2?

The keyboard on the PowerBooks seem a bit firmer than the iBook's. Nicer feel.

The 12" PowerBook has a 3rd speaker.

Also, did the old Albooks have the airport antenna's in the lid?

I believe so but I'm not 100% sure.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
I think for $300 it's definitely worth it. Plus you can get the SuperDrive in the 12" PowerBook. If I were buying now I'd get the PowerBook for sure. However, I'm going to wait for the next revision.

Also where are you getting these prices from? I see a much larger price difference.


In Canadian:
12" iBook $1,249.00
12" Powerbook: 1,899.00 <-still without superdrive.

That is a $600 dif.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by Eug:
Your TiBook is barely 2 years old.

Well, they came out in Nov 2002 and I bought one immediately upon release.

So 2 years, 3 months.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Also where are you getting these prices from? I see a much larger price difference.


In Canadian:
12" iBook $1,249.00
12" Powerbook: 1,899.00 <-still without superdrive.

That is a $600 dif.

Canadian iBook with 60 GB drive, Bluetooth, and 512 MB RAM is $1508. That's a $391 difference.

If you don't need all that, then fine, but 30 GB is very limiting these days, especially considering a basic OS X install with iLife and Office takes up so much space, and 256 MB on OS X is slow. Bluetooth is more optional, but as you know, my phone has Bluetooth.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

So does any other device in the universe support bluetooth 2.0?

[Link]

Wow, a 1.67ghz g4 that's barely faster than my 3 year old dual g4. You know, that's like IBM trying to sell a 286 laptop in 1992 or something. I can't say I'm impressed because except for digital audio and the *GASP* capability to drive a display at roughly 3fps with expose and that crappy graphics chip, it's just a lousy speedbump.

And a rather attractive price drop. $2200 through ADC, wowza.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Link:
Wow, a 1.67ghz g4 that's barely faster than my 3 year old dual g4.

That's a loud dual 1.42 GHz G4 tower, vs. a cool 1.67 GHz G4 with a sleek 1" thick case, that can run on battery power for hours.

No, the new PowerBook isn't hugely fast, but your comparison makes no sense.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Link:
the *GASP* capability to drive a display at roughly 3fps with expose and that crappy graphics chip

What an unqualified load of crap.

My 1 Ghz rev B 12" with only 32MB VRAM and a crappy POS 5200Go does Expos� perfectly fluid on my 20" ACD. Any one of these new models will do Expos� just fine.

[Link]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
That's a loud dual 1.42 GHz G4 tower, vs. a cool 1.67 GHz G4 with a sleek 1" thick case, that can run on battery power for hours.

No, the new PowerBook isn't hugely fast, but your comparison makes no sense.

You're comparing a DUAL 1.42 to a lousy little 1.6ghz processor?!

[aplmd]

I am kind of disappointed in today's announcement, but I guess it was what was expected. It has been 287 days (over 9 months) since last upgrade, and only 11% increase in CPU MHz, which in computing power is even less. This upgrade really should have came out about 3 months ago. I think anyone who has purchased a powerbook in the past 2.5 years will probably forgo this upgrade, unless they really need one. So out of 287 days, we see the following:

1.67 MHz vs 1.5 MHz
$200 price drop
512 vs 256 MB ram
Same graphic card with same amount of memory
8x vs 4x superdrive
Better Backlighting keyboard
Blue tooth 2.0 vs 1.?
iLife 5

Just my opinion....

[Homer S.]

hi.. can someone tell me when the next update will be for the powerbooks?? 6 months or somethinG?... well.. im not decided between the 12" ibook or the new 12" powerbook.. but .. i can wait 6 months..

Oh.. and can someone tell me where can i get the "200 dlls" discount.. cause in the internet apple page it says it only has a discount of $100 ($1400 12")

[DeathMan]

Originally posted by Homer S.:
hi.. can someone tell me when the next update will be for the powerbooks?? 6 months or somethinG?... well.. im not decided between the 12" ibook or the new 12" powerbook.. but .. i can wait 6 months..

Oh.. and can someone tell me where can i get the "200 dlls" discount.. cause in the internet apple page it says it only has a discount of $100 ($1400 12")

yeah, apple sent me a memo, and the g5 powerbooks are going to be ready to hit shelves on the 4th of july. so just hang in there.

$200 discount is for students. click education under "Stores" at the apple store.

[cpac]

Originally posted by Homer S.:
hi.. can someone tell me when the next update will be for the powerbooks?? 6 months or somethinG

something.
not 6 months.

I'd bet on a year - when they get a new chip of one sort or another - maybe MWSF 2006 at the earliest.

[sreo]

After taking a look at the new specs on this revision, I have to say that I wouldn't mind spending the extra dollars for the 12" PowerBook now instead of an iBook. Granted, I won't really be in the market for a laptop for several months, unless I win the lottery.

Right now I have a Compaq laptop that is good but showing its 2.5 years old age. After having to wipe the hard drive about 4 times over that time, not to mention countless crashes, BSODs, and other problems, I'm ready for something more reliable. That's why I am gonna go with an Apple.

I have been trying to decide between an iBook and a PowerBook for a while. My uses won't be that heavy, in theory. Mainly surfing the web, e-mail, word processing, spreadsheets, and some tinkering with UNIX. (I miss having access to a real command line.) I might throw in the occassional game like Chessmaster or a casino game or Warcraft III.

So both machines will be able to fit the bill. The PowerBook more so than the iBook.

Besides the new features and price, I have to say what is tipping the scale for the PowerBook is the added processor power and VRAM. I hoping to get a good 3 years out of my next machine. (Which should be long enough to get me through law school.)

Sure to some of you that already have those wonder filled packages of Apple goodness, these revisions don't seem all that extordinary. To someone like me standing on the outside of the Apple Store fogging up the window with drool and bated breathe, they look amazing.

[Homer S.]

$200 discount is for students. click education under "Stores" at the apple store - ?

i went www.apple.com/store.. then i clicked on the discount.. i went to my school.. and it was $1400.. ($100 discount).. do i have to click on another link?... well.. can someone post me the link for the $200 discount pls

oh, another thing.. can i have the discount on the apple store or do i have to buy it on the web page?

[Drakino]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
So does any other device in the universe support bluetooth 2.0?

Not that I have seen. Though having it now is a good thing, since Apple usually has been more of an egg company in the normal chicken-egg problems in the tech industry.

Firewire 800 is another example. Apple was one of the first PC companies to ship it in their computers, even though there wasn't a ton of devices out for it. I still haven't used my FW800 port. But I am glad it is there for the day I do, instead of not having it and having to upgrade later.

[cschmelz]

I think we are all missing the point of these lame updates...

Yes they are lame, basically just a few patches on a relatively old architecture...

HOWEVER, what does this mean in the big picture? I think that this means that the Apple engineers (that did such a great job shoehorning everything in the titanium laptops two years ago) are hard at work at something ELSE (like the mother of all thermal challenges!)

I think we will see something big with the next update, this is just a speedbump in the road, the big stuff is still in the pipeline (and my money is staying in my pocket until then!)

[far200]

This will be good for first time PB buyers but not great for anyone that wants to upgrade. Looks like we'll have to wait for the true Powerbook to come out.
But the price is nice for the people that waited to get there first powerbook.

Hope the next bump is a big bump.......G5........

[Scooterboy]

Nice updates, especially considering the price drops. I paid extra for the 5400 RPM HD and I paid extra for the 128 MB mobility Radeon 9700. Now those are standard, with the addition of dual link DVI, optical audio I/O, faster SuperDrive and faster Bluetooth.

These PowerBooks are good value for money.

[T. Diddy]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
And the BIGGEST MOVE FORWARD FOR APPLE: 512MB ACROSS THE LINE! This is a HUGE step in the right direction as Apple giving 256MB RAM to an OS X machine is a disgrace.

weak. PB12 buyers stuck with a useless, throwaway 256 stick; still no gigabit ethernet or FW800. weak video card. and, oh, is that keyboard backlit yet?

[UnixMac]

Well, lets just say that I'm not going to run out and sell my PB on ebay to get one of these...

I'll wait till 06 for the rev 2 of the G5 PB.

[fisherKing]

it seems unlikely that there would be no new powerbooks until 2006, so whatever apple has up it's sleeve will be worth waiting for...

june? anyway, we'll see...

[SEkker]

I think the problem is a matter of unrealistic expectations.

This was an UPDATE, not a release with a totally new computer architecture that would be required for a g5 cpu. Steve J. was not going to release the g5 PB alongside the mac mini and iPod shuffle -- he would not want to dilute the attention from these super cool products.

These powerbooks are 15-30% faster than their stock predecessors, and cheaper. What's wrong with that?

This was definitely a VALUE upgrade, not a pure performance update. I don't hear anyone complaining that these machines are now cheaper?

The bluetooth 2, trackpad, and brighter backlit keyboard changes are nice touches -- and this level of attention suggests these current form factors are going to survive the next gen cpu (G4 dual core and/or g5). Apple tends to go in cycles -- change the form factor using the same motherboard (i.e. amazingly enough, the TiPB essentially used the Pismo's motherboard while completely changing the form factor; the Pismo used the Lombard form factor while completely changing the motherboard, etc). They might update the LCDs or other portions that can be selected at the last minute, once a shipping timeline has been established with the new cpu/motherboard.

Enjoy paying less for more -- in the meantime, if you REALLY need g5 performance, get a powermac. We'll just have to live with our disappointment that Apple has yet to identify the necessary magic to fit a toaster element into a small metal box that does not burn our laps when it's on!

[BrettOZ]

Originally posted by SEkker:
I think the problem is a matter of unrealistic expectations.

This was an UPDATE, not a release with a totally new computer architecture that would be required for a g5 cpu. Steve J. was not going to release the g5 PB alongside the mac mini and iPod shuffle -- he would not want to dilute the attention from these super cool products.

These powerbooks are 15-30% faster than their stock predecessors, and cheaper. What's wrong with that?

This was definitely a VALUE upgrade, not a pure performance update. I don't hear anyone complaining that these machines are now cheaper?

The bluetooth 2, trackpad, and brighter backlit keyboard changes are nice touches -- and this level of attention suggests these current form factors are going to survive the next gen cpu (G4 dual core and/or g5). Apple tends to go in cycles -- change the form factor using the same motherboard (i.e. amazingly enough, the TiPB essentially used the Pismo's motherboard while completely changing the form factor; the Pismo used the Lombard form factor while completely changing the motherboard, etc). They might update the LCDs or other portions that can be selected at the last minute, once a shipping timeline has been established with the new cpu/motherboard.

Enjoy paying less for more -- in the meantime, if you REALLY need g5 performance, get a powermac. We'll just have to live with our disappointment that Apple has yet to identify the necessary magic to fit a toaster element into a small metal box that does not burn our laps when it's on!

Totally agree - I am ready to buy now and I am happy with this update with the cheaper price tag. I would rather buy now than get a 1st revision G5 (when they get here), look at upgrading this revision with a 2nd Gen G5

[TailsToo]

I'm pretty happy with the update - Apple probably has a lot of people working on the PowerBook G5, so this is just something to extend the life of the current ALBooks.

That said, this Rev should be really solid, much like the last TI book. Apple has had time to get all of the problems out of the product.

[MrForgetable]

boo. the only thing i miss here that isn't in my powerbook is the 80gb 5400rpm drive. i could use that extra space and speed right now. my first "outdation" of an apple product, woot! feels horrible.

[John123]

Originally posted by aplmd:
I am kind of disappointed in today's announcement, but I guess it was what was expected. It has been 287 days (over 9 months) since last upgrade, and only 11% increase in CPU MHz, which in computing power is even less. This upgrade really should have came out about 3 months ago. I think anyone who has purchased a powerbook in the past 2.5 years will probably forgo this upgrade, unless they really need one. So out of 287 days, we see the following:

1.67 MHz vs 1.5 MHz
$200 price drop
512 vs 256 MB ram
Same graphic card with same amount of memory
8x vs 4x superdrive
Better Backlighting keyboard
Blue tooth 2.0 vs 1.?
iLife 5

Just my opinion....

Dude, not cool to just steal my comments on the days since update and the processor increase. I know you're new, but a little attribution (via quotes) is nice, you know?

[Gamoe]

Originally posted by tooki:
I didn't say they were never right. My point is that the signal-to-noise ratio is so low as to not merit tons of my time or thought.

Oh, but it's not that-- It's the fun of it all! If Apple comes out with something, completely unexpected... you might say..."Oh, this is cool"... But if there is anticipation, a build up to the product announcement, it makes it all that much more fun, in my opinion. I think rumor sites help more than hurt Apple. While Apple keeps to their quiet and secretive ways, the rumor sites give us something to look forward to, so we don't lose interest.

For example, Apple's more or less continuing previews of Tiger give us something to look forward to... I am pretty interested in Automator, and curious about Dashboard and other new software features. I find it exciting to know that something is coming.

On the other hand, what I do not like is when too much of the product is revealed before it is released. For example, when the iMac Special Edition came out (I believe) Think Secret posted a picture of it. I was disappointed by that. Though I did want to speculate and get some possible specs and designs, etc... I didn't want the surprise ruined, which for me, the picture did. I think that's going too far.

But, in general, I think rumor sites are harmless, and even helpful. I held off buying an eMac for a few days because of a warning from one of the sites. Because of that I got a better and faster Mac. I was able to get a faster Mac for a few days wait, on a rumor tip. Otherwise, I would've been stuck with the older model, which would not have made me very happy.


That having been said, I think these were kind of anemic updates, and rumor sites or not, everyone is looking for more substantial updates to the PowerBook. It's not hard to see why most users are not impressed. But, this seems to be due to current technical limitations. I don't think it's Apple's fault, and those issues will eventually be figured out.

[T. Diddy]

Originally posted by tooki:
I didn't say they were never right. My point is that the signal-to-noise ratio is so low as to not merit tons of my time or thought.

i totally disagree. further, i pretty much agree with Gabriel Morales. to me it is a lot of fun tracking the rumors and having something to look forward to even if i'm not in buying mode. i do set aside part of my [work] day to surf the net just to see what's going on in the world (i also track sports and world events, not just geek stuff), then i go on with my day. i try to be realistic and take the rumors at face value. it's all in the chase, the hunt. and if apple has a problem with that, then they need to deal with it, this is the information age after all.

[Phossil]

I am dissapointed. I am a student, and I'm using an iBook right now. I've been waiting for this powerbook upgrade for about 6 months, and I was hoping for the following:

-XBRITE style screen w/ better resolution (many other laptop manufacturers have this, very crisp and bright, much more viewable in daylight)
-Better video card (9800 mobility would be very nice, regardless of what others have said, this has been used in many smaller x86 laptops, lets get it in on a PPC! The 9800 has already been outdated by the x800, lets at least get the second fastest!)
-Better specs on 12" (I'll have to get the 15" because the 12" just doesn't have enough "power". I hate to lug around the extra weight but I see very little difference between this 12" and the 12" that was updated 9 months ago.)
-Dual Core G4 or at least more than 11% CPU voltage increase (11% sucks)
-XBRITE style screen (yes I already said this, but apple is usually among the top dogs for screens, IMHO these screens just don't cut it.)

I have to buy one of these, because my other option is to wait until rev A G5s (or dual G4s whatever the next PB rev is) come out in 6+ (9?) more months. I really don't need a PB until August, but who knows what the status of PBs will be then, plus I don't want to be stuck with this iBook until rev B Dual G4s (or G5s) come out.

Anyway, I'm unhappy. I'll be waiting for Tiger to get a new PB anyway. Apple has dissapointed me today.

[aplmd]

Originally posted by John123:
Dude, not cool to just steal my comments on the days since update and the processor increase. I know you're new, but a little attribution (via quotes) is nice, you know?

Sorry John, Didn't see your post... was buried in the first page. I actually didn't steal them intentionally, just got the numbers from MacRumors web site, and did my own calculations.

TO ALL READERS -- MY POST HAS THE SAME NUMBERS AS JOHN 123... HE WAS FIRST TO PUT IT IN, SO GIVE HIM THE CREDIT.

Happy John123??

[John123]

Originally posted by aplmd:
Sorry John, Didn't see your post... was buried in the first page. I actually didn't steal them intentionally, just got the numbers from MacRumors web site, and did my own calculations.

TO ALL READERS -- MY POST HAS THE SAME NUMBERS AS JOHN 123... HE WAS FIRST TO PUT IT IN, SO GIVE HIM THE CREDIT.

Happy John123??

Okay, okay, no problem.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Drakino:

Firewire 800 is another example. Apple was one of the first PC companies to ship it in their computers, even though there wasn't a ton of devices out for it. I still haven't used my FW800 port. But I am glad it is there for the day I do, instead of not having it and having to upgrade later.

Ya, Firewire 800 hasn't caught on at all. Mostly because no devices can do that fast as it is overkill.