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Busemann · Mar 14, 2005, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Apple makes a considerable amount of money supporting and developing proprietary codecs. While we all feel MP3 is an open format, it's not. Somewhere along the lines, someone is paying... the same with AAC and every other format.

Just because they pay a licensing fee to use mp3/AAC doesn't mean they are proprietary. Almost all ISO standards have a licensing fee associated to them so that new formats can be developed, but they are still open standards (anyone can get access to the code).

Apple Lossless on the other hand is proprietary, which also makes a lot of sense. They didn't want to pay $x.xx per unit shipped for something as simple as a lossless codec, so they just went on and made their own.

Millennium · Mar 14, 2005, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Busemann:
Just because they pay a licensing fee to use mp3/AAC doesn't mean they are proprietary.

Actually, yes it does. That's the definition of proprietary.

Almost all ISO standards have a licensing fee associated to them so that new formats can be developed, but they are still open standards (anyone can get access to the code).

They are standards, but they are not open standards, and this is the problem. To be a truly open standard, anyone would need to be able to get access to the specs without any kind of hindrance. Although ISO has some standards which meet this definition, they do not mandate that all standards be open.

haze · Mar 14, 2005, 11:36 AM

You guys all forgot the obvious and #1 advantage to OGG Vorbis, it is GAPLESS!!! Until AAC is gapless it is and inferior codec. And until iTunes supports gapless playback for Apple Lossless, it is NOT lossless. If there are gaps where they are not supposed to be, it can't be lossless, it is not an exact duplicate!

Busemann · Mar 14, 2005, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by haze:
You guys all forgot the obvious and #1 advantage to OGG Vorbis, it is GAPLESS!!! Until AAC is gapless it is and inferior codec. And until iTunes supports gapless playback for Apple Lossless, it is NOT lossless. If there are gaps where they are not supposed to be, it can't be lossless, it is not an exact duplicate!

It is fully lossless, the problem lies in iTunes. Try to burn a lossless file and it will be *just* like the original (and play back gaplessly on the CD player).

It has been rumored that this will be sorted out in the next major version of iTunes.

lookmark · Mar 14, 2005, 02:15 PM

Which should be coming out rather soon now, don't you think? Anyone have any inside info on this?

Busemann · Mar 14, 2005, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Actually, yes it does. That's the definition of proprietary.

There is a difference to something proprietary (wma), and something which is an ISO standard (AAC), even if there is a licensing fee involved with both. No one can compile their own version of wma, but anyone can get full access to the AAC source code and make their own encoders. No one really owns AAC other than the MPEG organization which administers the patents.

Millennium · Mar 14, 2005, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by haze:
You guys all forgot the obvious and #1 advantage to OGG Vorbis, it is GAPLESS!!! Until AAC is gapless it is and inferior codec. And until iTunes supports gapless playback for Apple Lossless, it is NOT lossless. If there are gaps where they are not supposed to be, it can't be lossless, it is not an exact duplicate!

Codecs aren't "gapless"; they can't be gapless. They start when they start, and end when they end. The problem you're seeing is in iTunes' own playback, not the codec.

CaptainHaddock · Mar 14, 2005, 07:27 PM

If some corporation tries to make you pay a fee for your own implementation of a codec, it is proprietary. If they don't, it is free (as in speech).

tiffer17 · Mar 14, 2005, 10:00 PM

A few things:

1. When sorting my library by artist, it puts the artists in alphabetical order, and the albums of a certain artist in alphabetical order. I would like an option to sort the albums in chronological order.

2. I want album art, but I don't want it attached to my music files. An option to save it in the album folder would be nice.

3. iTunes should fill in any missing ID3 tags, and automatically find and download the album art.

SpaceMonkey · Mar 15, 2005, 12:09 AM

I would definitely be excited about FLAC support, but the chances of that happening haven't been good ever since the release of Apple Lossless.

I wouldn't really be excited by features that have iTunes automatically looking up more stuff from online databases, as most of those databases are littered with errors.

tiffer17 · Mar 15, 2005, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by SpaceMonkey:
I wouldn't really be excited by features that have iTunes automatically looking up more stuff from online databases, as most of those databases are littered with errors.

What about looking stuff up in Apple's own database? (iTunes Music Store)

Sure, they don't have everything, but it's pretty accurate...

yukon · Apr 29, 2005, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by lavar78

Anyway, seeing a pattern "often" may not be such a big deal. After all, humans naturally see (or think they see) patterns. You glossed over the main point -- you don't want it to be truly random or even shuffled the way iTunes does it; you want it to be varied. By definition, that means putting eliminating some of the possible choices for track order.

True, I don't want total randomness (as I've said), but I don't want the same algorythm picking out tracks in the same order. It's repeditive and not varied enough, and that's why I felt it was something I'd like to change in iTunes.

I'm posting this late because now I can reproduce it. When I play "Bylo i proshilo" by "russki razzmer" (iTunes doesn't understand the characters, "�� " by "�� "), it follows it with NYC Bar from the Deus Ex soundtrack, The Mechanism of Starlight by DAC Crowell, long live love by sandie shaw, Oh Well by Snake River Conspiracy, and it does this everytime that first song is played, I could go on with more titles as iTunes does. I've seen the repetition with other songs happen a few times since I posted my suggestion, but this is the first time I knew what song I played first that caused it.

It doesn't use that order when I add more tracks to the playlist, so you're right there, but it's something I notice that bugs me. Perhaps a secondary algorythm that iTunes could choose at times, or excluding random tracks from the calculation. Suggesting this to Apple now.