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JohnCoffee · 10:03 PM

The first post was empty...so I had to post again...

Today I had another experience about this. I drives me mad. Really. All pictures in iphoto are blurred due to this antialiasing stuff. Also preview does it - also with PDf files. Here a example. I compared this with Adobe Acrobat Reader 7.0:

Acrobat 7 Reader:
http://homepage.mac.com/dual533/.Public/Picture%203.png
[ALL inline images must be no wider than 480 pixels. --tooki]
Preview:
http://homepage.mac.com/dual533/.Public/Picture%202.png

Now someone tells we, whether Apple should solve this problem or leave the Mac OS X user blurred....

John

bseely · Apr 25, 2005, 05:54 PM

so... this is probably a stupid question, but have you tried changing the antialiasing style in system preferences?

JohnCoffee · 10:04 PM

Sure I tried that. This turned out. Bummer again for Preview:

http://homepage.mac.com/dual533/.Public/Picture%201.png

Any other suggestion?

John

Millennium · Apr 25, 2005, 06:41 PM

Are you sure that you're viewing it at 100% size in Preview? That last image doesn't look right for a full-size version.

funkboy · Apr 25, 2005, 07:07 PM

Yes, double-check the percentage. Adobe may be looking at it at 100%, and Preview at 100% should have a similar look. Should be nice and sharp.

What anti-aliasing mode do you have it set on in Sys Prefs?

d0ubled0wn · Apr 25, 2005, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by JohnCoffee

Any other suggestion?

Sure, you could use Adobe Reader 7, which appears to work fine.

Seriously, just leave Reader open all the time. OS X pages it out to disk when it's not being used saving memory for other apps. OTOH if it really bugs you, be sure to let Apple know.

tkmd · Apr 25, 2005, 07:57 PM

You may want to try what I use its a command line command that disables the anti-aliasing system wide. I agree- apple's implementation of AA is merely "fuzzy-fonts". I'll search through my HD to try to find the command that was given to me.

A search in these forums will probably yield you the command line.

Cadaver · Apr 25, 2005, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by JohnCoffee

The first post was empty...so I had to post again...

Today I had another experience about this. I drives me mad. Really. All pictures in iphoto are blurred due to this antialiasing stuff. Also preview does it - also with PDf files. Here a example. I compared this with Adobe Acrobat Reader 7.0:

(snip)

Now someone tells we, whether Apple should solve this problem or leave the Mac OS X user blurred....

John

Its not the system font anti-aliasing that's doing it. Its the way Preview is designed to antialias graphics that are re-sized from the original. Its definitely softer-appearing than many other applications (say, Photoshop). Not bad for photos, but it does mess with line art I'll agree.

Best advice is to simply use a different application if you don't like the way Preview handles such images. Again, its not a system-wide OS X issue... its simply the way Preview does its down/upsizing (nearest neighbor vs. bicubic, or something like that).

Edit: and I would not use iPhoto to store technical graphics like that. Lossy compression will wreak havoc with such images.

JohnCoffee · Apr 26, 2005, 12:42 AM

The picture is at 100% size displayed for both program. Leaving antialiasing unchecked in the preferences yields to this:
http://homepage.mac.com/dual533/.Public/Picture%201.png
I didn't use iPhoto to store the image - that was just a general comment on iPhoto.

You may want to try what I use its a command line command that disables the anti-aliasing system wide. I agree- apple's implementation of AA is merely "fuzzy-fonts". I'll search through my HD to try to find the command that was given to me.

There is a command to turn of AA ?

Never heard - I would love to turn it off in iPhoto. Anybody knows about this?

John

Apfhex · Apr 26, 2005, 01:01 AM

I'll agree that I don't like the way Preview and iPhoto handle raster images, and I wish I could turn off AA just for those (I still want AAing for my PDF's and other vector art).

FYI, when I view PDF's with Preview they look every bit as sharp than in Acrobat Reader, but I also don't have any with thin/curved lines like that example.

Superchicken · Apr 26, 2005, 01:46 AM

Uhh...

Why don't you try opening Preview/prefs/PDF and then click the nice lil button that says "Anti-alias lines and text"

There, everyone is happy

JohnCoffee · Apr 26, 2005, 01:55 AM

Superchicken....no one is happy. Doing as you suggested, as mentioned above already:

Leaving antialiasing unchecked in the preferences yields to this:
http://homepage.mac.com/dual533/.Public/Picture%201.png

Superchicken · Apr 26, 2005, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by JohnCoffee

Superchicken....no one is happy. Doing as you suggested, as mentioned above already:

Leaving antialiasing unchecked in the preferences yields to this:
http://homepage.mac.com/dual533/.Public/Picture%201.png

mind e-mailing me the file?
[email protected]

This does not make any sense to me.

PurpleGiant · Apr 26, 2005, 02:12 AM

Wait, this image is vector right? Raster images should all appear the same at 100%. However vector images will need to be rendered each time, which can result in varying looks depending on the program. If vector, I doubt there is much you can do, other than use a program that you like the antaliasing of better.

DeathMan · Apr 26, 2005, 04:46 AM

There is nothing you can do. Preview's anti-aliasing is way too soft. Its not a system problem, its preview sucking. The best you can do is complain to apple, and just use Adobe Reader for now.

Jernberg · Apr 26, 2005, 05:20 AM

Hey JC! Long time man - still waiting for your letter!

I have some good news (let's celebrate!! haha). Preview in Tiger does not "blur" photographs like it did in Jaguar or Panther. I guess iPhoto in Tiger doesn't do it either, but I can't check it right now as I'm still running Panther at work.

Cheers and talk to you soon!

/Dino

JohnCoffee · Apr 26, 2005, 04:56 PM

Yo /Dino

Well - I still have some concerns that the mentioned pdf will be really displayed fine in Preview with Tiger.
I will post the Link of the pdf's tomorrow for everyone to test.

Cheers
JC

P.S. The letter has to wait - special reason this week.

JohnCoffee · Apr 28, 2005, 12:56 AM

for Superchicken and everyone else to try by themselve:

http://www.iuvsta.org/Sput%20Yield%201.pdf

compare this with Preview and Acrobat Reader 7. Especially deselect Antialias for line art. This makes things even worse.

anybody can test this in Tiger to see whether the problem is solved?

Thanks
John

Jim Paradise · Apr 28, 2005, 01:20 AM

I posted a thread in the Applications forum a week back ago or so about Preview's terrible anti-aliasing, and this is exactly what I'm talking about. If I open a picture in QuickTime not at 100%, it looks a lot better than opening it up in iPhoto or Preview. The anti-aliasing is too much in those programs.

Cadaver · Apr 28, 2005, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by JohnCoffee

for Superchicken and everyone else to try by themselve:

http://www.iuvsta.org/Sput%20Yield%201.pdf

compare this with Preview and Acrobat Reader 7. Especially deselect Antialias for line art. This makes things even worse.

anybody can test this in Tiger to see whether the problem is solved?

Thanks
John

I'm trying this document at work (Windows XP, Adobe Reader 6), and it looks like crap no matter what the settings.

So, I don't think its anything specific with OS X...

mitchell_pgh · Apr 28, 2005, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

I'm trying this document at work (Windows XP, Adobe Reader 6), and it looks like crap no matter what the settings.

So, I don't think its anything specific with OS X...

Same here... I almost puked... hard ugly type everywhere.

JohnCoffee · Apr 28, 2005, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

I'm trying this document at work (Windows XP, Adobe Reader 6), and it looks like crap no matter what the settings.

So, I don't think its anything specific with OS X...

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Same here... I almost puked... hard ugly type everywhere.

Actually I'm a Mac OS X user. Therefore I don't care too much what Windows XP does in this situation. Because this doesn't help me at all.

I just wanted to point out that Previews antialiasing could be done better. It's way too soft. The same thing happens in iPhoto. I constantly move the slider for zoom a little to the right side to check whether a picture is really sharp. iPhoto somehow seems to turn off AA when doing this. Why it can't be set to "OFF" (I guess 10.1 had that feature) all the time is strange to me.

John

Cadaver · Apr 28, 2005, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by JohnCoffee

Actually I'm a Mac OS X user. Therefore I don't care too much what Windows XP does in this situation. Because this doesn't help me at all.

I just wanted to point out that Previews antialiasing could be done better. It's way too soft. The same thing happens in iPhoto. I constantly move the slider for zoom a little to the right side to check whether a picture is really sharp. iPhoto somehow seems to turn off AA when doing this. Why it can't be set to "OFF" (I guess 10.1 had that feature) all the time is strange to me.

John

OK, I gave it a try at home with Acrobat 7.0 Professional (I don't have 7.0 Reader installed) and Preview (10.3.9).

First thing I notice is that 100% in Acrobat 7 Pro is equal in size to about 140% in Preview. Not sure why (or, conversely, 100% in preview is about 75% in Acrobat 7 Pro).

So, with Preview at 140% and Acrobat 7 Pro at 100%, they both look pretty good. Preview isn't quite as blurred as your screenshot shows - probably because I'm looking at it at 140%, but it is softer.

And, another thing... man, does Acrobat 6 make it look like crap!

** Warning - large images in links below **

Here's a screenshot showing 100% size in Preview being ~= to 74% in Acrobat.

Here's a pic showing what Preview looks like at 140%, which is roughly equal in size to this picture showing what 100% in Acrobat looks like.

While Preview is slightly softer IMHO, Acrobat ain't all that great, either.

Turns out, the image in the document you linked isn't really a vector image with PDF-based text. The text and graph are both bitmapped graphics. Turn off font smoothing in Acrobat, and the image will NOT change. Turn off image smoothing in Acrobat, and everything turns to crap - including the text. Perhaps this also contributes to the inconsistent way the image is displayed across applications.

Oh, here's what the image looks like in Photoshop Elements 3, imported with the anti-alias checkbox ticked on... Different yet again.

workerbee · Apr 29, 2005, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

Turns out, the image in the document you linked isn't really a vector image with PDF-based text. The text and graph are both bitmapped graphics.

Just checked that in Photoshop -- you're right, it's not vector. Preview smoothing is still very soft...