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Athens · May 7, 2005, 03:33 AM

very poorly for me

Destonius · May 7, 2005, 03:56 AM

Just follow my great example and go start a fight and make a thread here
so that you can get bashed left and right.

storer · May 7, 2005, 05:45 AM

He didn't sleep with a married woman. We don't hate him.

tavilach · May 7, 2005, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by storer

He didn't sleep with a married woman. We don't hate him.

storer · May 7, 2005, 06:55 AM

Hrmn, that gets to me too. When you're on the receiving end of an adulterous relationship (child, partner) you understand even more, how inappropriate it is.

Destonius · May 7, 2005, 07:16 AM

storer · May 7, 2005, 07:38 AM

^^ You really never learn do you. Like 80% of the word thinks adultery is wrong. The other 20% are adulterers.

Destonius · May 7, 2005, 08:45 AM

You can't read, can you?

I've already acknowledged that it was wrong and I won't commit adultery again, ever.
Whatever the hell all you righteous saints think, sometimes you get caught up in the labyrinth of life and things happen so fast that you don't even have the chance to think. Sh&t happens.
Just forget about my comments here and help the poor guy out. Ok?

OwlBoy · May 7, 2005, 01:02 PM

I just ask, then I can't be rejected...

-Owl

Superchicken · May 8, 2005, 06:10 AM

IN YOUR FACE!

I hung out with her tonight, her parents lead the college and carrier group at our church... and so I was over there today... I thought about not going cause I still felt a bit weird, especially seeing as how her family loves me but I wasn't sure how her mom and dad would have taken me asking her out and I knew her mom knew... well we hung out all night it was great, chatted. Then she and two other girls from the group went out for a walk while I had been talking to her mom about something so I was like, I'll stay here. So I talk to her mom, and later the conversation moves to the whole asking her out thing, and she was like, "Probably not the best timing for you... but it was great for her! Total confidence booster, just what she needs, totally needs to know a guy could be interested other than this guy etc" and I nearly fell over! Most parents are like, boys evil no boys for our little girl, they're like but you should know something if you wanna date her type thing! And that something was that I would have to ask her parents and stuff... and I was like uhh OK...
So I asked em, well what would you want to know, and so we went through all of that while she was out hahaha... and like... both of them love me! And they would totally love for us to go out... which... is weird for me since my parents are soo not the type of people who I would want in my dating life... but she is the type that what her folks say really matters to her soo... yah.
And her mom was like, by the way don't tell her I said this but... dont' give up! And I was like... DUDE!...

Anyway, so they went to bed at around probably 10ish 11ish we all stayed up with another girl from college and carrier who took FOREVER TO LEAVE! And I just... hung around. So the girl who was from the group left at around 1, and... we kinda stayed up talking just me and her till... 5am...
So... I'm home now... she gave me a lift cause I'd walked over and it was raining... and... yah... I'm happy... girls aren't quite as evil as I thought... by the way... she said the way I asked her out was TOTALLY AWESOME! And any other time she would have said yes, and that she laughed about it all day.
SO YOU GUYS SUCK AND I'M AWESOME... or something. Well the guys who said it was a bad approach.

Captain Obvious · May 8, 2005, 06:51 AM

Pff.... the mom's vote doesn't count for much unless the mom is the one you want straddling you.

Anyway, until she says yes and you get some what a girl says to be nice is just words. I know it may feel all warm and fuzzy because you want to take anything nice she says as reinforcement that you have a shot but if she didn't take off her clothes for you it's all just words. If that late night talk was such a turning point she'd have asked you to sleep over.
You are being treated like a friend. Worse yet, and far more realistic, she may be using your company to make herself feel better until she is ready to move on to a new guy she may like. Don't be a patsy. Either she will go out with you or not. "Any other time" isn't really helping you out today.

starman · May 8, 2005, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Destonius

You can't read, can you?

I've already acknowledged that it was wrong and I won't commit adultery again, ever.
Whatever the hell all you righteous saints think, sometimes you get caught up in the labyrinth of life and things happen so fast that you don't even have the chance to think. Sh&t happens.
Just forget about my comments here and help the poor guy out. Ok?

You're so vain...
You probably think this thread is about you...

starman · May 8, 2005, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

IN YOUR FACE!

Pics?

Mike

scaught · May 8, 2005, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

IN YOUR FACE!

SO YOU GUYS SUCK AND I'M AWESOME... or something. Well the guys who said it was a bad approach.

ya. let us know when you nail her. k?

Stradlater · May 8, 2005, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

See the problem is I'm a really good FRIEND, and I've had girls become friends with me and then they don't want to risk the friendship by going out... so I figured I'd try and skip that junks... in general...

If you want to be friends with girls, you need a better angle. If you're going to be the rag she can cry on when she's pining over some dude that's ignoring her, you need a better angle. If you're going to take her side in love's follies, follies in which you're not involved, then you need a better angle. If you're going to agree with the sentiment that "MEN SUCK," you need a better angle.

Most men don't know how to be friends with women. If you're the right kind of friend, they'll consider you a potential partner and want to date you. If you're the wrong kind of friend (and you consistently fit the overly-nice-guy stereotype), you'll eagerly await impossible situations while they use you as an emotional air-shaft, while they forget you even have a penis.

If you have been avoiding the whole nice-guy thing, then carry on; otherwise, you need a better angle.

Stradlater · May 8, 2005, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

SO YOU GUYS SUCK AND I'M AWESOME... or something. Well the guys who said it was a bad approach.

Well the approach WAS bad, maybe she's just not picky...you know, with the whole "self-esteem" thing and all.

Oh, and her approval is first and foremost important, not her parents'.

You probably have a shot if you're persistent, so don't do the whole "I'm gona be safe and leave the ball in her cort cos i dont wanna loose her ass aa friennd" thing.

Cpt Obv is completely right about the friend thing, though, and your situation could be far less gleeful than you're making it out to be.

Superchicken · May 8, 2005, 02:23 PM

Uhh the whole naked thing... I'm going into the pastorate, and she wants to go into youth ministry... it would be kinda of a kick to both our integrity to have done anything like that. And besides she's getting over a guy there's no chance I could take advantage of her even if she had offered. A relationship is a lot more than just an opportunity for sex. I wouldn't be interested in her if she was anywhere near that easy.
I saw her mom at church today and she was like, "You know... I'm not mad but... 5am... not exactly the best..." I was like yah... sorry... and then we laughed a bit... and as for the mom's vote not counting much. She really cares about what her parents think, not that I want to try and use that or anything like that (sleezy is not my way of doing things) it does mean a lot to her and I would have no shot if her parents didn't like me.

ender2002 · May 8, 2005, 02:30 PM

what is up with this whole "permission from her parents" bs? arent you adults?

E's Lil Theorem · May 8, 2005, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

....

Anyway, until she says yes and you get some what a girl says to be nice is just words. I know it may feel all warm and fuzzy because you want to take anything nice she says as reinforcement that you have a shot but if she didn't take off her clothes for you it's all just words. If that late night talk was such a turning point she'd have asked you to sleep over.
You are being treated like a friend. Worse yet, and far more realistic, she may be using your company to make herself feel better until she is ready to move on to a new guy she may like. Don't be a patsy. Either she will go out with you or not. "Any other time" isn't really helping you out today.

Ah, yes, he's becoming an intellectual whore.

Originally Posted by Stradlater

...

Most men don't know how to be friends with women.

...

He needs to read about the ladder theory.

TailsToo · May 8, 2005, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

Uhh the whole naked thing... I'm going into the pastorate, and she wants to go into youth ministry... it would be kinda of a kick to both our integrity to have done anything like that. And besides she's getting over a guy there's no chance I could take advantage of her even if she had offered. A relationship is a lot more than just an opportunity for sex. I wouldn't be interested in her if she was anywhere near that easy.
I saw her mom at church today and she was like, "You know... I'm not mad but... 5am... not exactly the best..." I was like yah... sorry... and then we laughed a bit... and as for the mom's vote not counting much. She really cares about what her parents think, not that I want to try and use that or anything like that (sleezy is not my way of doing things) it does mean a lot to her and I would have no shot if her parents didn't like me.

Some of the other posters are right. If you're too nice to women, they decide that you're not dating material. It's kinda sad, but it's true. You don't have to be an A**hole, but if she's too comfortable with you, you'll become her security blanket but she'll be looking for some other guy to become her boyfriend.

http://www.outpostnine.com/editorials/attraction.html

Captain Obvious · May 8, 2005, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

Uhh the whole naked thing... I'm going into the pastorate, and she wants to go into youth ministry... it would be kinda of a kick to both our integrity to have done anything like that. And besides she's getting over a guy there's no chance I could take advantage of her even if she had offered. A relationship is a lot more than just an opportunity for sex. I wouldn't be interested in her if she was anywhere near that easy.
I saw her mom at church today and she was like, "You know... I'm not mad but... 5am... not exactly the best..." I was like yah... sorry... and then we laughed a bit... and as for the mom's vote not counting much. She really cares about what her parents think, not that I want to try and use that or anything like that (sleezy is not my way of doing things) it does mean a lot to her and I would have no shot if her parents didn't like me.

You need to stop with the parents thing. Unless this girl happens to be from India her parents don�t get to be the ones that choose who she dates and marries. She may want their approval but you have the sequence wrong. First she likes a guy then she hopes that her parents like him. Not the other way around.

And yes, it is the naked thing you are going for. You are already friends and have her occasional companionship. If that side of a relationship is only what is important to you then there you go it is already there and there is no need to hope she will be your girlfriend. But clearly that isn�t what you want. You want to be the guy who sees her with her pants down.

This chick is not going to be your girlfriend if the current direction continues much longer. If you were smart you would go date some other girl for entertainment in the mean time. Your odds of this current girl liking you would double, which given the current level of affection for you she has may still not be enough, if she has to compete for your attention and time.

Just stop being so optimistic like things are going well for you, they really are not. You just want to think they are because you need to cling to some hope. Her parents being nice to you does not change the fact that this girl still wants to be with a guy that is not you.

TailsToo · May 8, 2005, 07:29 PM

Right, the parents thing can backfire. If her parents are pushing for you, she might jump in the sack with someone else just to spite them!

Most women that I know what to make their own decisions and not have their parents pick their mate for them.

Oh, and the Captain is right about dating someone else as well. I've given up on women and started seeing someone else, and that's when the first woman would become interested again. If you're in demand, then she'll want you more.

strictlyplaid · May 8, 2005, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

And yes, it is the naked thing you are going for.

One bit of qualification for all the advice that Captain O and the others are providing: if you follow this advice about not being her friend and focusing primarily on getting into her pants (or, if she's unwilling, into someone else's ASAP), you may be successful -- but you're going to be successful with a particular kind of woman, and the relationship that results may not be what you want. If you see women as irrational beings driven by arbitrary dating rules who refuse to get close to their friends and respond to frat-guy dating wisdom, don't be surprised if that's exactly the kind of woman you attract by following those rules. If you want that, great. If not, maybe overlook Captain O's advice.

FWIW, my wife and I were friends for 3 years before we started dating. There was some physical attraction right off the bat, but we didn't get together before we really knew each other (for various reasons.) Many of our married friends got together in the same way. Others got together following the Captain O techniques. Both can be happy marriages, but I conjecture that the kind of marriage you get is a bit different in these cases.

zigzag · May 8, 2005, 08:01 PM

Whether your immediate goal is to get in her pants or not, you obviously want to be her special someone, the guy she thinks about and wants to be with and tells her secrets to and invites to Dairy Queen etc. The problem is that, despite all the pointers people like to give, there's no such thing as a proven strategy. If there were, it would already be standardized and everyone would be able to use it successfully, all the time. Being mean or indifferent only works if the girl's already interested in you, and being super-nice only works if she's already interested in you. The sad fact is that a girl either has feelings for you or she doesn't, and it's usually based on things that are indefinable or subject to chance (the exception is if the girl is so lonely that she'll go out with anyone who asks). The other sad fact is that those feelings can change on a dime and for no apparent reason. So, the best you can do is be yourself, be friendly but don't be obsequious or needy, and keep living your life.

In other words, it usually comes down to chemistry, which you can't really manufacture or plan, unless you're Jack Nicholson, which you're not.

nredman · May 8, 2005, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Should have stopped right there. Did you expect to get anything serious out of that conversation that day with that first response ?

-t

gotta agree there.

Chuckit · May 8, 2005, 08:08 PM

Captain Obvious explicitly said that his advice assumes that what Chicken wants out of this is sex (since Chicken already has her friendship and seems to be dissatisfied with that).

strictlyplaid · May 8, 2005, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Captain Obvious explicitly said that his advice assumes that what Chicken wants out of this is sex (since Chicken already has her friendship and seems to be dissatisfied with that).

There's a difference between (1) superficial sex/dating, (2) friendship with a woman, and (3) a marriage-level relationship (sex + best friendship, I suppose). I see Captain O's advice as targeting (1), but Chicken wanting (3).

scaught · May 8, 2005, 10:08 PM

call it unfortunate, call it what you will, but chicks like SOME amount of asshole/challenge in "the game", period.

TailsToo · May 8, 2005, 10:09 PM

I'm thinking that Chicken is wanting a girlfriend, but he's stuck at that friend position. If he doesn't do something to get her to think of him as boyfriend material, she'll move on to someone else and Chicken will just remain the friend.

Captain Obvious · 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

There's a difference between (1) superficial sex/dating, (2) friendship with a woman, and (3) a marriage-level relationship (sex + best friendship, I suppose). I see Captain O's advice as targeting (1), but Chicken wanting (3).

Chicken wanting #3 is nice and all but the only option open to him is #2 by the girl in question. It is damn rare for a girl to do #1 for more than a couple months without getting attached and asking to move to #3. Since this girl seems to be one of those girls who needs commitment in conjunction with any level of sexual activity if he can even cross first base he stands a better chance than just waiting around for her to be ready to date.

Plus I must add, with all the girls I have ever known who were rebounding from being dumped and weren't ready to date the event that triggered a desire to date again was meeting a new guy. I have never heard of a chick waking up one day and wanting to be with someone who is already present in their life. If the guy was an option to date they knew all along they did not need to be talked into it by their parents or the guy.
You see it in 80s movies but it doesn't happen in real life very often and especially not with 20 year old girls.

The boy is screwed and needs to go do something else and forget about this girl for the time being. Maybe in a few years he'll get a chance but waiting around for her now is pointless. The story about you and your wife being friends is nice but it is misleading and gives the boy false hope. How old were you when you became friends and then it still took 3 years for it to click. I am guessing 25ish. And I am sure it was a decade of being dicked over by jerks and having her heart broken that finally made her decide she wants to date a "nice guy"
If Chicken wants to wait around for 6 years before she gives him a romantic opportunity that's his prerogative. But I call someone who does that a sucker.

zigzag · May 8, 2005, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by scaught

call it unfortunate, call it what you will, but chicks like SOME amount of asshole/challenge in "the game", period.

Yeah, people in general seem to have the urge to overcome indifference, but they usually have to be infatuated with the other person in the first place. Playing hard to get might enhance the urge, but if the interest isn't there in the first place, it's a lost cause. So, he could go off and test the theory, but there's no guarantee whatsoever that it'll work. She could just as easily say "Man, I'm glad I don't have to deal with _____ any more."

I'm afraid that, other than being rich and famous, there is no formula.

Superchicken · May 8, 2005, 11:19 PM

Again we are both Christians! There is ZERO chance we'd have sex before marriage. And again, right now she's going through a lot with sorting things out, I hardly want to confuse her more, even if it means that I have less of a shot with her. The point is that if you truly care about someone you don't want to bring more pain and frustration into their life. You want to be the type of person that causes LESS of that to be present not more. And if she didn't appreciate that I honestly wouldn't want to waste my time with her.
You guys are talking about an entirely different kind of girl than this one is. And no her parents don't choose who she dates, but the chance of her staying with anyone her parents did not approve of is pretty slim to none. It sounded weird to me at first but they have an amazingly great relationship, and to be honest all three of them are super fun to be around and they don't strike me as the normal type of parents at all.
But either way you guys don't get it, the reason we'd go out is because we would want to see if a relationship would be able to be a life long thing resulting in marriage not simply a no penis in vagina meaningless thing.

strictlyplaid · May 9, 2005, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

How old were you when you became friends and then it still took 3 years for it to click. I am guessing 25ish. And I am sure it was a decade of being dicked over by jerks and having her heart broken that finally made her decide she wants to date a "nice guy"
If Chicken wants to wait around for 6 years before she gives him a romantic opportunity that's his prerogative. But I call someone who does that a sucker.

I was 20, she was 21, when we got seriously involved. We met in college when I was 17 and she was 18. It was my first serious relationship; she'd had maybe 3 or 4 relationships of varying significance before me. I don't want to generalize too far beyond my own experience, but I personally know several similar stories.

Of course, there are a lot of girls who play "the game" initially and who want to become closer over time. It can lead to happy marriages. But like I said, playing "the game" gets you girls who buy into "the game" and have values that make "the game" look like a good idea. If you're not interested in those girls for a serious relationship, skip the game unless you're just in it for the sex (which Chicken indicated he is not.)

strictlyplaid · May 9, 2005, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by zigzag

Yeah, people in general seem to have the urge to overcome indifference, but they usually have to be infatuated with the other person in the first place.

Originally Posted by zigzag

I'm afraid that, other than being rich and famous, there is no formula.

Haven't you heard of Love Potion #9?

ender2002 · May 9, 2005, 02:44 AM

Ok ok. I have a solution. Get really really drunk with her (i mean freakin' trashed)... and then see what happens...

okay?

Superchicken · May 9, 2005, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by ender2002

Ok ok. I have a solution. Get really really drunk with her (i mean freakin' trashed)... and then see what happens...

okay?

She's allergic, goes into anaphylactic shock, and I get an uncontrollable gut wrench at the faintest smell of alcohol

Stradlater · May 9, 2005, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

She's allergic, goes into anaphylactic shock, and I get an uncontrollable gut wrench at the faintest smell of alcohol

You smile, smile, all the while
You may think you musn't drink.

Teetotaling talk is that of a nazi.
You're missing out. And so is she.

Webscreamer · May 9, 2005, 01:15 PM

Well, I think this thread is bad news bears. I was just gonna ask a girl out today... this thread worries me.

Stradlater · May 9, 2005, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Webscreamer

Well, I think this thread is bad news bears. I was just gonna ask a girl out today... this thread worries me.

Do it.

Chuckit · May 9, 2005, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

Again we are both Christians! There is ZERO chance we'd have sex before marriage.

I'm sorry, but Christianity has never been an effective way of preventing sex.

Stradlater · May 9, 2005, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I'm sorry, but Christianity has never been an effective way of preventing sex.

That depends on your definition of "sex."

Incl. "the non-uteran entrance"? Plenty of Catholic girls save their virginity that way.

Superchicken · May 9, 2005, 05:11 PM

I'll put it to you this way, sex would come at a much later stage for us than it would for you guys... think after you've spent a very large amount on a ring, wedding ceremony... and honey moon... and then you are rewarded for your wait with a lovely awkward first time in a romantic setting

ender2002 · May 9, 2005, 05:17 PM

so this goes... right here... aha... and then this goes like this... and then that goes like that! Hey honey, its just like in the diagram from that book!

"lovely awkward first time in a romantic setting" =

kentuckyfried · May 9, 2005, 05:18 PM

"My problem is I always pick the ones with boyfriends. They always seem semi-interested to, dammit."

hahah...I guess I'm not the only one who knows how to pick 'em

*sigh*

kentuckyfried · May 9, 2005, 05:28 PM

Anyhow...

it's time to move on. Find somebody else. This girl sounds like she's not interested and it's a waste of your time to go any further.

Originally Posted by Superchicken

She's allergic, goes into anaphylactic shock, and I get an uncontrollable gut wrench at the faintest smell of alcohol

TailsToo · May 9, 2005, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by kentuckyfried

"My problem is I always pick the ones with boyfriends. They always seem semi-interested to, dammit."

hahah...I guess I'm not the only one who knows how to pick 'em

*sigh*

LOL! I think there's a reason that the ones we want have boyfriends... most of those that don't do not for a reason!

Superchicken · May 9, 2005, 08:11 PM

Uhh just cause she's not into drinking you want me to find someone else? Uhh... this works out great for me I can't stand the smell of wine or beer or any other drink of that sort.

Kilbey · May 9, 2005, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

I'll put it to you this way, sex would come at a much later stage for us than it would for you guys... think after you've spent a very large amount on a ring, wedding ceremony... and honey moon... and then you are rewarded for your wait with a lovely awkward first time in a romantic setting

Get out your day planner and write this down: I agree with teh Chicken!

Stick to your morals on this. It will be a rewarding experience.

As per the rejection: my only advice is to ask out any girl you think you might be interested in or might be interested in you. Sure, you'll get rejected a lot, but a few will take you up on your offer and you'll have some great experiences.

kentuckyfried · May 9, 2005, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by TailsToo

LOL! I think there's a reason that the ones we want have boyfriends... most of those that don't do not for a reason!

hahaha...yes. I am going to end up in Hell eventually for being such a superficial bastard.

TailsToo · May 10, 2005, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by kentuckyfried

hahaha...yes. I am going to end up in Hell eventually for being such a superficial bastard.

Well, I was talking more about the crazy ones, but yes there is that too.