[Zimphire]

Not sure about long term...

Usually when you quit it takes about a week or so to get back to normal brain functioning.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by UNTiMac

Does anyone know of any long term neurological effects? I actually have a friend right now who is literally abusing it (high 24/7) and I wonder if he'll end up so fried that he won't be any use to himself. That would be my only concern is with the potential for abuse similar to alcohol. We haven't really tackled that problem either as we have the highest incidence of DWI fatalities.

Any studies on marijuana's long term effects?

There isn't much evidence that THC is really capable of "frying" you the way some drugs are. Although if he's smoking anything that much, I predict some long-term effects down the road anyway.

[undotwa]

Originally Posted by Athens

Answer this why is it ok for Booze and Cigs to be legal and not Pot, answer that one

A glass of wine a day won't harm you. A chronic joint-a-day can seriously damage your mental health.

We should try and minimize the amount of drugs we are dependant upon in our society. I'm no fan of tobacco BTW, but I recognize that it would be impossible to ban because so many of us in society are addicted.

All in good time perhaps tobacco would be smoked no more, but you can't do these things on the spur of the moment.

[undotwa]

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

...

You obviously don't understand what happened in the 19th century in Great Britain, Germany and Russia in the late 19th century under Witte.

Just because a law says I'm free to do whatever I want, given the circumstances, we are not always free because we often have obligations to keep ourselves and our families alive. It is only because of government intervention in the form of social securities that we now have a greater freedom to reject a job because we have the confidence of a guarantee to an income to feed our family. In a time when this was not so, people wouldn't dare reject a job because everyone was desperate for a job and the next person was willing to work for lower so he can a slice of bread for dinner.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by undotwa

You obviously don't understand what happened in the 19th century in Great Britain, Germany and Russia in the late 19th century under Witte.

Just because a law says I'm free to do whatever I want, given the circumstances, we are not always free because we often have obligations to keep ourselves and our families alive. It is only because of government intervention in the form of social securities that we now have a greater freedom to reject a job because we have the confidence of a guarantee to an income to feed our family. In a time when this was not so, people wouldn't dare reject a job because everyone was desperate for a job and the next person was willing to work for lower so he can a slice of bread for dinner.

Why would you ever cite Russian monarchy as an example of real capitalism, which is what we're talking about here? What obligations are you talking about?

Maybe you don't understand how life works. You do not deserve anything from anyone, anything, or the government. All you deserve is the freedom to do as you please, provided it does not harm anyone else's rights. And no, there is no right no schooling, a house, a job, or anything else of that nature.

Maybe if you actually met real life—competition, self-reliance, etc.—you would get it. Your paternalism is harmful to the self-reliance of the people and expensive waste for anyone who pays taxes.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by undotwa

A glass of wine a day won't harm you. A chronic joint-a-day can seriously damage your mental health.

Oh, for crying out loud. Nobody has established that THC causes any long-term mental damage. Stating it as fact doesn't make it have any more basis in reality.

[sek929]

**** must've missed this thread starting but I still have some things to say.

I'm not for legalizing medicinal pot just so I can get weed and smoke maaaaaan. I am very convinced of just how helpful a drug THC can be...want some evidence?

I had the flu last year and I could barely move, let alone eat, for days. On the 4th day I'd had enough of water and Ibuprofen so I rolled the worlds smallest joint and smoked it. My pain went away, I gained my appetite back, and I was able to fall asleep without sweating off 10 pounds first. Next day after one kick ass night of rest I was better again..

Second example: I broke my hand earlier this year after being drunk and punching the wall in anger (booze IS bad for you). Now if you so much as bent my pinky 1/8 of an inch I would have cried from pain. Once again rolled small joint, smoked it, played frisbee WITH broken (fractured probably) hand and actually enjoyed it.

I could go on an on about nasuea, headaches, sleeplessness but I'll skip right to the chase and my main point about legalizing medicinal pot. Instead of having Pfizer tell you what is best for your body don't alot of us already know this? Self medication is my point and some of us choose to do it because we are good at it. Now if your dying in the hospital of cancer, undergoing chemo and the only thing that makes you feel better isn't the chemical creations of the drug companies but a nice joint of some premo weed then would it even matter to you if it was illegal? Not me, I'd smoke a joint and get my half-dead ass thrown in prison, at least I'd die with a nice head change.

Severely ill people can benefit immensely from medicinal pot and since its withdrawl...uhh its side effects...uhhh yeah its not bad for you, thats what I'm trying to say. But making "legal" drugs is a giant business here in the US so you better bet your ass that Pfizer and the like would love to see the Medical Marijuana innitiative fall flat on its back.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by undotwa

A glass of wine a day won't harm you. A chronic joint-a-day can seriously damage your mental health.

mental health? undotwa, you are spreading FUD.

You know one joint is about as strong as a nice glass of wine.

However, unlike alcohol, there is a point with pot that you just can't get any higher.

And you just fall asleep.

Alcohol is different. You can very well kill yourself or become incapacitated from using it.

If you want to talk about which is worse for you, alcohol is far worse.

Now, the way people use pot (smoking) is worse than drinking.

But there are people that use vaporizers now that take most of the bad effects out.

And if it was legalized, the gov could make it so there was enough THC in one pill, smoking was not a have to thing.

[Zimphire]

I had the flu last year and I could barely move, let alone eat, for days. On the 4th day I'd had enough of water and Ibuprofen so I rolled the worlds smallest joint and smoked it. My pain went away, I gained my appetite back, and I was able to fall asleep without sweating off 10 pounds first. Next day after one kick ass night of rest I was better again..

Was you smoking pot regularly before you got sick?

[Moderator]

Originally Posted by undotwa

We should try and minimize the amount of drugs we are dependant upon in our society. I'm no fan of tobacco BTW, but I recognize that it would be impossible to ban because so many of us in society are addicted.

Give me a break, Pot doesn't have anything NEAR the potential for addiction that cigs do.
Did your Principal tell you that bunk?

And wtf ever happened to Personal Responsibility...I thought the Repubs were all about that.

[BoomStick]

Yeah, pot doesn't impair your abilities

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by Moderator

Give me a break, Pot doesn't have anything NEAR the potential for addiction that cigs do.
Did your Principal tell you that bunk?

And wtf ever happened to Personal Responsibility...I thought the Repubs were all about that.

About every conservative person here is actually arguing against paternalistic undotwa, who wants us all to be government serfs. I don't think anyone here is arguing for it because smokn' reefer is waaay cool.

[bubblewrap]

THE AIRCRAFT HIT THE PLANT'S CONCRETE SMOKE STACK

He propably thought it was a giant bong...

[maxintosh]

Budster, Wellbutrin and ProzaC aren't even in the same *class* of drugs. Prozac is related to other SSRIs (seratonin reuptake inhibitors) like Lexapro, Celexa, Paxil, etc.; but Wellbutrin is pretty much in a class of its own as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. The side effects are hence much different. Men are often prescribed Wellbutrin, it is not just a post-pardum drug.

A very close friend of my mother's died a few years ago from breast cancer. Her friends would buy her marijuana because it helped greatly to relieve the pain and nausea and help her eat.

What I don't understand is how conservatives can say they are so pro-states' rights but keep on pushing federal laws to regulate and overrule state laws. Or how you can be a "compassionate conservative" but damn a cancer patient to an painful and uncomfortable death.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by maxintosh

Or how you can be a "compassionate conservative" but damn a cancer patient to an painful and uncomfortable death.

Hate to break it to you, but Democrats aren't exactly pushing pot to be legal either.

[maxintosh]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Hate to break it to you, but Democrats aren't exactly pushing pot to be legal either.

Granted, but they weren't behind the decision to overrule the states' laws on this issue either.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by maxintosh

Granted, but they weren't behind the decision to overrule the states' laws on this issue either.

Paternalists and Federalists won that one. Pot grown by and for an individual that does not pass state lines is not subject to Federal regulation. Maybe if those 6 justices would go reread that part of the Constitution on interstate commerce, they could make a decision faithful to the document they were sworn to uphold.
Thomas and a few other people voted against Fed regulation for it (overruling state laws). Blame the others. Scalia voted wrong on this one.

[budster101]

Maybe they should try some weed and then make their decision? Any one else think this would be a good idea?

I've never tried it, so it is something I cannot comment on as being a "should be illegal" sort of thing. I do know that there are a few variables to consider when thinking of such a thing.

- Origination of the product
- Manufacturer
- Quality Control
- Additives
- etc. of which I'm not certain. (Anyone)

What would make a legalization of Marijuana viable? If at all?

Of course this line of reasoning can be taken to the extreme and look quite flimsy, but it is an anecdotal argument at the least.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by budster101

Maybe they should try some weed and then make their decision? Any one else think this would be a good idea?

No, cuz then they all woulda voted against states' rights. In that case, the hidden evil demon found in all pot would accentuate the paternalism of the old cranks instead of trigger the "Yay reefer!" portion of their brains. Often times, pot has unexpected effects on people over 156, or Supreme Court justices.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by undotwa

No one benefits from smoking a joint. It's usually better if they didn't (unless for medicinal purposes, which is for the doctor not the user to decide). So what force of good makes you think it should be legalised?

The person smoking the joint benefits from it, duh.

And doctors are not god (i've met a few moronic doctors, they're not all geniuses, and they often disagree on such vital issues such as treatment), and I have the final say over what I choose to do regarding my own body, and not some "doctor". I'm sure quite a few doctors are also for legalizing weed, which is far less harmful than most things which are legal today (alcohol, cigarettes, pharmaceutical drugs).

If we're going to make illegal everything that is "non beneficial", then where can I submit my list ? I can think of a thousand things, at the very least.

Take the weed out of the equation, and you all can probably throw away at least 50% of your CD collections (MP3 collections, whatever).

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by maxintosh

Granted, but they weren't behind the decision to overrule the states' laws on this issue either.

They weren't really fighting it either.

[popstand]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Why not just extract the THC, manufacture it in pill form and write prescriptions for it?

Instant end to all the "marijuana societies" and questions raised about illegalities.

Even cocaine has a legitimate medical use, and it can be prescribed.

Hasn't anybody here ever heard of Marinol...http://www.marinol.com/patient_care.html

If you drink any alcohol ever, arguing against the legalization of Marijuana on moral grounds is utterly hypocritical and baseless.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by popstand

Hasn't anybody here ever heard of Marinol...http://www.marinol.com/patient_care.html

If you drink any alcohol ever, arguing against the legalization of Marijuana on moral grounds is utterly hypocritical and baseless.

Hear hear, unfortunately by you saying that there are a group of people who have just written you off as an "addict" its quite unfortunate how booze hounds get more respect than potheads. Pot is a great social drug and facilitates fun and easy going times, booze usually starts off fun but ends in fights between boyfriend and girlfirend and just about everyone else.

I took a Marinol pill once, much like taking a vaporizer hit (no bad stuff only water vapor and THC).

Zimph, yes I was smoking before getting sick but I didn't do so for about two days before getting really sick and I was also very poor so I had reeaaally bad schwag and only a small amount of it. I see what your getting at though, but I assure you all those symptoms I felt were very much so an effect of the Flu. I've had small weed withdrawls before but its usually just a little bit of an upset stomach, and that goes away within about 20 minutes and doesn't return for the duration of my time without pot. Hell I get shaky and angry if I don't have my coffee everyday.

[CreepingDeth]

Just as a recap:
Almost everyone on the right (or wherever I'm placed at) doesn't like the government telling them they can't smoke pot.
Alot of people on the left are arguing for it, too.

Then there are the nanny paternalists like undotwa who want to decide what you can't do in your own house.

Damn, I was expecting more of a divide on this social issue. Most of the people on the right have their heads out of their asses on this social issue. Good for them.

Shame on undotwa, who I expect to throw away all his liquor, any other drugs, porn, violent video games, guns, "toys," pointy knives, bubblegum cigarettes, non-diet food, and meat products. After all, he should practice what he puritanically preaches.

[undotwa]

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

About every conservative person here is actually arguing against paternalistic undotwa, who wants us all to be government serfs. I don't think anyone here is arguing for it because smokn' reefer is waaay cool.

I find it quite strange that I am alone on this one. Not one conservative to back me up?

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by undotwa

I find it quite strange that I am alone on this one. Not one conservative to back me up?

Oh yeah, budster. Aww, does that help?

[undotwa]

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

Just as a recap:
Almost everyone on the right (or wherever I'm placed at) doesn't like the government telling them they can't smoke pot.
Alot of people on the left are arguing for it, too.

Then there are the nanny paternalists like undotwa who want to decide what you can't do in your own house.

Damn, I was expecting more of a divide on this social issue. Most of the people on the right have their heads out of their asses on this social issue. Good for them.

Shame on undotwa, who I expect to throw away all his liquor, any other drugs, porn, violent video games, guns, "toys," pointy knives, bubblegum cigarettes, non-diet food, and meat products. After all, he should practice what he puritanically preaches.

lol. I think you may be exaggerating a little here.

I think what we should be asking ourselves, other than for medicinal purposes, why should we legalise pot?

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by undotwa

lol. I think you may be exaggerating a little here.

I think what we should be asking ourselves, other than for medicinal purposes, why should we legalise pot?

You need to ask yourself how you can tell me with a straight face that we should keep booze legal, but not pot.

[macamac]

Alcoholics are far more dangerous than pot smokers. How many people who smoke pot start fights for no good reason? How many try to get into a cars and try to drive? I would guess not too many.

Alcohol is more dangerous but more profitable to established corporations so it's legal.

Pot < Underground and has gotten a bad name... Legalize the crap, then regulate the heck out of it.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by macamac

Alcoholics are far more dangerous than pot smokers. How many people who smoke pot start fights for no good reason? How many try to get into a cars and try to drive? I would guess not too many.

Alcohol is more dangerous but more profitable to established corporations so it's legal.

Pot < Underground and has gotten a bad name... Legalize the crap, then regulate the heck out of it.

Woah, woah, woah. Regulation in the amounts you're calling for is unnecessary. If people sell bad pot or pot that doesn't get you high, then it's the consumers' fault. If it harms anyone, people can sue the company. I'm still not sure of age restrictions, or if any are needed, but you don't need to make stupid laws to restrict sales of it. Why legalize it if you add paternalism in the form of useless laws?

[macamac]

No regulate it like you do anything of that nature.

Alcohol.
Cigarettes.

- - - - - - -

Age.
Quality < Maybe, but more importantly ingredients. (Standardized, unlike cigarettes...)
No driving under the influence. (Minimum amount)
What is the problem?

It's a parallel between Alcohol and Marijuana.

- - - - - - - - -

You can make an industry much like the Gin Factories or the Cigarette Companies.
Think of the benefits.

What did prohibition do for Alcohol? or to it?

Make an argument I can follow.

[undotwa]

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

You need to ask yourself how you can tell me with a straight face that we should keep booze legal, but not pot.

It wouldn't do any good to make booze illegal. Those who are alcoholics (who are the main problem anyway) will still get their supply but through underground networks, thus funding organised crime rings.

At least by keeping marijunana illegal we restrict the general population from becoming hooked on yet another drug.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by undotwa

It wouldn't do any good to make booze illegal. Those who are alcoholics (who are the main problem anyway) will still get their supply but through underground networks, thus funding organised crime rings.

At least by keeping marijunana illegal we restrict the general population from becoming hooked on yet another drug.

Hhahahahaha!!! Too funny, so if it were legal more kids would smoke pot right? More than uhhh 95% of all High School seniors try it and just about everyone has done it in college. So much for your statement. You are living in a bubble where your logic actually works, news flash IT DOESN'T!

The hardest drug to get for High Schoolers...... BOOZE! yeah thats right booze. In HS I could get meth, heroin, coke, pot, etc... But try finding a way to get a bottle of Tequila and your screwed. Its quite largelyly known that for HS students legal highs are the hardest to get.

Oh yeah and do you know how I could get coke? Because the pot dealers knew coke dealers, so by the transitive theory pot dealers are coke dealers, take away the illegality and you will see this veil of FUD surrounding the pot culture lifted. Being around countless potheads at some of the biggest party schools around here is the best info anyone can have about potheads. If you were to actually observe the culture instead of just demonizing it you'd realize us potheads are the LEAST og this countries problems, but the Gov. would like you to believe otherwise.. Psst! its their way of keeping control of the masses, we all need enemies to hate right?

Sorry if this reply is a little disjointed, I was laughing to hard when I read that last statement by undotwa.