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Hack3006 · Jul 8, 2005, 10:37 AM

The culprit is a dual 1Ghz G4 Quicksilver Running 10.4.1--
Friday at work my computer works fine, Monday on boot up, I get a kernel panic. Restart, kernel panic, restart, computer runs for 3 minutes kernel panic. Restart kernel panic. I strip all externals and ram from computer, nothing changes. Try to reinstall Tiger, kernel panic, try to install Panther, kernel panic. Try to run Norton disk utilities from CD, Kernel panic. Try to run disk utility from Panther, Hard drive has no problems. Finally reinstall Panther, I notice the fan behind the heatsink is not spinning, I replace that. Start the computer, runs for 5 minutes, Kernel panic. The only way I am able to get my computer to run without a kernal panic is to open the case and point a fan inside. My hunch is that it's getting too hot inside the case, either the hard drives of processor is causing that kernel panic. With the case open and fan on the hard drives are running at 89ºF and 87ºF (30ºC, 31ºC) Closing the case the drives work their way up to 107ºF and 105ºF. Could this be a sign of the drives beginning to fail, all scans say hardware and physical drives are fine. A logic board issue? I am fairly sure it's not a software issue, because there was no software on the computer when trying to reinstall TIger. I've removed the ram and still been given the kernel panic. The computer runs fine with the case open and the fan pointed towards the computer. Closing the case will result in a kernel panic. What's overheating, and why all of the sudden? Any help would be appreciateed.

Hack3006 · Jul 12, 2005, 10:48 AM

Now, even having the case open doesn't help. The question is, which got burnt up, the logic board or the processors? I've heard of logic board dying... is there a way to find out if it's actually the processors or the logic board? I don't want to spend $400 replacing the logic board if I really should have replaced the processors? And the other way around I guess. Any thougths?

seanc · Jul 12, 2005, 12:13 PM

Are you sure your fans are all running ok?
It may be wise to install temperarure monitor to keep an eye on the temperatures.
http://www.bresink.de/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html

Would it be possible to swap parts with another system?

Try completely disconnecting the hard drives and the booting up from the CD and see what happens.
If this works ok, then see if you could try another hard drive(s).

It sound's like a logic board or processor issue and seems to be related to heat. My bet is on the processor.
Try giving the heatsink a dust off so that air can flow through the fins.

Try directing a fan into the case to see what happens.

Another possability is that the psu might not be being able to provide enough power for the fans and drives, but i doubt it.

Good Luck and post back the results.

Sean

Hack3006 · Jul 12, 2005, 01:09 PM

Yeah, I've checked all the fans. All are operating normaly. Currently the case is open with a box fan blowing on the drives, heatsink, and processors. I've already tried disconnecting the drives, video cards, ram, I've installed Tiger on a brand new drive, I've experienced kernel panics while trying to run a hardware test from cd, run a disk utility from a disk, and with no operating system installed on the drive, kernel panics occur while trying to install. I don't have a spare computer to swap processors and logic boards. Is the a way to determine which one is the culprit? Logic board or processors? Should I just put it out in the parking lot and drive over it, then smash the remaining parts with a hammer?

seanc · Jul 12, 2005, 05:21 PM

What ever you do, don't destroy it!
If you really don't want it then put it on e-bay.
BUT before you do that try a new logic board if the auction doesn't go to high.
I've seen logic boards do funny things before, so this wouldn't be the first.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...218658860&rd=1
Thats a quicksilver board currently at $9.00

There are some which are very expensive but it is cheaper then spending a load of money on a new computer.

There are a lot of other boards up there, just go to Ebay then computers and networking then apple computers and input quicksilver.

You can have a look at the pricing and see what you want to do.

Unfotunately, I don't know a way to diagnose it other then swapping out parts.
If you've got apple care then just take it to them.

If you've really had enough of it then put it on e-bay for spares and get yourself an MDD or cheap G5.

Once again, good luck and keep us posted.

Sean

Waragainstsleep · Jul 12, 2005, 06:38 PM

The age old conundrum....logic or CPU? Simple enough if you have a spare, otherwise potentially pricey. If a fan failed and caused an overheat, then permanent damge could have ensued. Odd that it went from running fine one day to not booting the next, but I guess that means the damage occurred while it was still running, or due to physical contraction as it was cooling back down perhaps.

If you really think heat is the root cause, then the CPUs have to be the prime suspect. They get hotter than anything else. But there are no guarantees. If you're set on purchasing a replacement to test with, get a single 733MHz CPU. This would allow you to test your board, probably for the minimum amount of cash. $50 I believe from OWC. (Will a Sawtooth chip run on a QS board? Those are dirt cheap). Or you could pay a tech to diagnose it for you. Some will do no fix no fee.
There is a small chance that the PSU could be faulty. Its a very small chance though.

Did the QS ship with a hardware test CD? That might tell you something......

seanc · 02:56 AM

double posted.

seanc · Jul 13, 2005, 02:54 AM

Just went to check out the specs of the quicksilver and as far as I can see they never made them in 1.0ghz.
I'm guessing by this that you either have an Mirrored Drive Door or a Processor upgrade.
Go to this page www.secondchancepc.co.uk go to the mac desktops and tell me which one yours is.
If it is an MDD then there was a posting on this a while ago with exactly the same problem although I don't know whether it was fixed or not.

If you could take a look at that site and just clarify what you have, and then i'll go and find that old post.

Thanks and Good luck

Sean

Hack3006 · Jul 13, 2005, 09:03 AM

Actually I have a stock dual 1 Ghz Quicksilver, not a MDD. (I wouldn't limit what a store sells to what Apple did or did not make) Apple-History.com has a more detailed list of computers manufactured by Apple. Even so I would like to read that thread.
I found this thread yesterday which is pointing me more towards the processors being bad (at least one of them). Since a new computer is not in the budget I am going to try a new processor upgrade. Wish me luck.

OogaBooga · Jul 13, 2005, 10:19 AM

Don't completely rule out the RAM. It could be that your RAM has gone bad, which sometimes happens. Even the stock Apple RAM goes bad from time to time. If you can, try to find a couple other sticks to test it with.

God would smite you down if you threw away that computer when it just needed new RAM.

Hack3006 · Jul 13, 2005, 11:38 AM

I've tried removing all sticks of ram, and replacing them one at a time and in different sockets... no luck. I am sure in the end it will just turn out to be something as stupid as I forgot to turn of my automatic kernel panic button.

Hack3006 · Jul 15, 2005, 03:30 PM

And here's the fix! Buy a new processor. Today I installed a new dual 1.2 Ghz Processor from OWC.com, and it seems that solves the problem. Who knows how but apparently one of the processors died and that tends to cause some kernel panics. But so far 3 uninterrupted hours of processing later we are still going strong.

seanc · Jul 15, 2005, 03:57 PM

Great!

Glad it's all working properly again and you've also got a speed upgrade!

Thanks for sharing the fix with us as it will be easier to help other people with similar problems.

Hope it all stays working ok.

Just keep an eye on temperatures inside the case and make sure they don't get too high, otherwise you might have these problems all over again.

Sean