[AB^2=BCxAC]

Aww crap! I can't see anything for the mightymouse online that says you can turn off the fake sounds!

Here I was thinking it would be a great silent mouse!

(Yeah, silent can be good.)

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by MacMan4000

I guess they're not too worried about "Mighty Mouse" already being used for other Mac software?

Why should they be? Mighty Mouse is a registered trademark (remember the cartoon mouse?)- you can't legally use the name without paying royalties to Viacom International. Apple paid for the rights to the name first- look at the fine print: http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/index.html

[AB^2=BCxAC]

Double post...
(page turn tricked me)

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

No, I hate using a one button mouse, but I do think they should continue to ship one button mice with macs for no other reason than to force developers to design apps with one button in mind.

Most regular users don't know how or when to right click. I'm sorry, it's just something I feel really strongly about, since I work in an enviornment that supports hundreds of Windows users. Most of them really have no clue what right clicking can do. The only time they right click is by accident, and it often results in them making a mistake.

Making a right button a standard feature means that designers can just dump random options into a contextual menu, much like you see in just about every Windows app. But this is a dead horse that gets beaten all the time, so I won't dwell on it.

How hard is it to teach people that the right click brings up a contextual menu, and left-click is input.?

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

How hard is it to teach people that the right click brings up a contextual menu, and left-click is input.?

Apparently incredibly difficult. So difficult, in fact, that no one should be required to learn it and those that already have should be heavily taxed.

[stevesnj]

Seems this is exactly what Apple's stratigy is proven in this forum. They are being loyal to the one button mouse fans yet have provided a mouse that can be used by those who want (myself included) the features a 2 button mouse. Can this mouse be configured as a one button mouse to please the older Mac one button fanatics?

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Can this mouse be configured as a one button mouse to please the older Mac one button fanatics?

Yes, it can.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

How hard is it to teach people that the right click brings up a contextual menu, and left-click is input.?

Have you ever tried it? I don't just mean tried teaching your mom or neighbor, I'm asking if you've dealt with thousands of people to get an idea of their understanding of right clicking.

Yeah, it sounds so simple on the surface, and to those of us who are so accustomed to working on comptuers it comes as second nature.

But I can tell you from having worked 6 years of tech support at an ISP, talking to thousands of customers, and now as an admin of a Windows network with a few hundred users, that most users do not understand what right clicking can do. You could blame it on poor training, user stupidity, or bad programming, but the result is that for most users it just makes things harder.

[nredman]

i'd get one if i had a desktop, my old microsoft optical mouse is fine for my ibook. i think its a good move by apple though.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Miniryu

Why should they be? Mighty Mouse is a registered trademark (remember the cartoon mouse?)- you can't legally use the name without paying royalties to Viacom International.

Actually you could use it if you use it for a different product group than for what it is registered. Television shows and computer mice are different product groups I would assume, so I'm somewhat surprised that Apple licensed the name.

[driven]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Have you ever tried it? I don't just mean tried teaching your mom or neighbor, I'm asking if you've dealt with thousands of people to get an idea of their understanding of right clicking.

Yeah, it sounds so simple on the surface, and to those of us who are so accustomed to working on comptuers it comes as second nature.

But I can tell you from having worked 6 years of tech support at an ISP, talking to thousands of customers, and now as an admin of a Windows network with a few hundred users, that most users do not understand what right clicking can do. You could blame it on poor training, user stupidity, or bad programming, but the result is that for most users it just makes things harder.

That was my point exactly.

I teach at a university and MANY (majority) students have problems with concepts that most of us would deem "second nature". Microsoft has designed Windows as a tool for the technically adept. The computer novice will have a difficult time as will the poor sap who wants to use the computer as a tool only without the required technical knowledge.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Have you ever tried it? I don't just mean tried teaching your mom or neighbor, I'm asking if you've dealt with thousands of people to get an idea of their understanding of right clicking.

Yeah, it sounds so simple on the surface, and to those of us who are so accustomed to working on comptuers it comes as second nature.

But I can tell you from having worked 6 years of tech support at an ISP, talking to thousands of customers, and now as an admin of a Windows network with a few hundred users, that most users do not understand what right clicking can do. You could blame it on poor training, user stupidity, or bad programming, but the result is that for most users it just makes things harder.

Meh. I worked AOL tech support for a long time. I've been a network admin. The only people who couldn't figure out right-clicking were the same people who couldn't figure out double-clicking. I actually worked for a software company that had a product that would get error messages if certain buttons were double-clicked rather than single-clicked. Sheer joy.

Regardless of the aggressive drug regiment that was necessary to survive those experiences, those people hardly constituted a "majority" of computer users. Not even close. They weren't even a "majority" of people calling tech support. Even if 100% of support calls were those people, it still wouldn't be a majority of computer users. Not even close.

1-button mouse as standard means a tax on everyone who isn't right-button challenged. I'd rather the tax be levied on the laggards, fetishists and aesthetes instead.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Have you ever tried it? I don't just mean tried teaching your mom or neighbor, I'm asking if you've dealt with thousands of people to get an idea of their understanding of right clicking.

Yeah, it sounds so simple on the surface, and to those of us who are so accustomed to working on comptuers it comes as second nature.

But I can tell you from having worked 6 years of tech support at an ISP, talking to thousands of customers, and now as an admin of a Windows network with a few hundred users, that most users do not understand what right clicking can do. You could blame it on poor training, user stupidity, or bad programming, but the result is that for most users it just makes things harder.

Hear, hear! [Nods to Oisin!)

Joe Average seems to get confused by multiple buttons.

Of all computers, the Mac is the last one that needs to start catering only to power users. THAT would make the Mac tank.

tooki

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by tooki

Hear, hear! [Nods to Oisin!)

Joe Average seems to get confused by multiple buttons.

Of all computers, the Mac is the last one that needs to start catering only to power users. THAT would make the Mac tank.

tooki

You have vastly different notions of what constitutes "average" and "power user" than I do.

Hell, I spent half a year training lunch ladies to use computers (many of them never using a mouse before in their lives) and I still don't think 2 buttons is more confusing than double-clicking. Its the same very small minority of people who can't master these skills in very short order.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Have you ever tried it? I don't just mean tried teaching your mom or neighbor, I'm asking if you've dealt with thousands of people to get an idea of their understanding of right clicking.

Yeah, it sounds so simple on the surface, and to those of us who are so accustomed to working on comptuers it comes as second nature.

But I can tell you from having worked 6 years of tech support at an ISP, talking to thousands of customers, and now as an admin of a Windows network with a few hundred users, that most users do not understand what right clicking can do. You could blame it on poor training, user stupidity, or bad programming, but the result is that for most users it just makes things harder.

How exactly is it any harder than telling them they have to press control-click? Using two devices for one end result. THAT seems odd to me.

[tooki]

No, the point is that they'd never use a contextual menu, period. They're not gonna control-click.

tooki

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by tooki

No, the point is that they'd never use a contextual menu, period. They're not gonna control-click.

tooki

Even in OS X contextual menus are very important.

I just dont understand why people cant see a two button mouse as a good thing. Using one device is better than two.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Even in OS X contextual menus are very important.

Which they shouldn't be (a design goal that the one button mouse enforced).

The only time when you really need the contextual menu in OS X is for initiating a slide-show from a bunch of pictures on the desktop. And I consider that a bug. For everything else you can use the main menu or the action menu.

ps:
I forgot, the Spotlight window also requires the contextual menu. Sad.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

How exactly is it any harder than telling them they have to press control-click? Using two devices for one end result. THAT seems odd to me.

You're right, it's not any harder. But the real point is keeping developers from obscuring features and options behind a right click, without keeping those same options accessible from a more visible and logical location.

I've used AdAware as an example in my last post on page one, but let me elaborate. AdAware is a great program, it scans your (Windows) computer for spyware, and usually can remove what it finds. When it gives you the list of spyware it found, which sometimes numbers in the hundreds, you must check a selection box next to each one you want to remove. There is no select all button visible. In order to select all, you must right click the upper left column header, get a contextual menu, and select all. There is absolutely no visual indicator that you must do that, and I discovered it by accident. I've seen people checking off those boxes one by one.

That's what shipping a one button mouse by default prevents, and that's the real advantage of it.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Even in OS X contextual menus are very important.

I just dont understand why people cant see a two button mouse as a good thing. Using one device is better than two.

Apple's own user interface guidelines state that no command should exist only in a contextual menu. Apple has, alas, broken this rule a few times.

tooki

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Which they shouldn't be (a design goal that the one button mouse enforced).

The only time when you really need the contextual menu in OS X is for initiating a slide-show from a bunch of pictures on the desktop. And I consider that a bug. For everything else you can use the main menu or the action menu.

ps:
I forgot, the Spotlight window also requires the contextual menu. Sad.

Why is that a bad thing? Do people really prefer moving their mouse all over the freaking screen to perform basic tasks? Contextual menus are a god-send, as far as I'm concerned.

What's easier for a newbie? Right clicking and checcking what options are in the contextual menu or scrubbing the main menu for it?

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker

What's easier for a newbie? Right clicking and checcking what options are in the contextual menu or scrubbing the main menu for it?

Scrubbing the menu for it. Because it's a central location that provides (or SHOULD provide) them all the options they're looking for. If they don't know what they're looking for, at least they know where to go to look for it.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Scrubbing the menu for it. Because it's a central location that provides (or SHOULD provide) them all the options they're looking for. If they don't know what they're looking for, at least they know where to go to look for it.

Spoken as if contextual menus were somehow counter-intuitive.

The contextual menu is just that contextual, you get a small set of options related specifically to the object you're clicking on. What could be more intuitive than that? In fact, once you know about them, its intuitive to treat it as the first option to find what you're looking fore rather than scrubbing menus because you'd expect to find only the items that pertain to what you're doing.

Contextual menus might be foreign to some Mac users but they've been a ubiquitous part of the windows world for a very long time. Any switcher is going to think contextual menu first before scrubbing the main menus.

The argument against them (and 2-button mice as somehow above the "average" user) seems entirely predicated on aesthetics rather than on substance.

I'm glad even Jobs now realized this and has allowed the rabble to persuade him that times are a'changin'. I just wish it wasn't still something you had to pay extra for, but I'll live with it.

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Even in OS X contextual menus are very important.

I just dont understand why people cant see a two button mouse as a good thing. Using one device is better than two.

No they're not. At least not in Panther. Apple has that Actions menu default on the windows, plus pull down menus on the top of the screen. Contexual menus are convenient, but not necessary.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker

Spoken as if contextual menus were somehow new, strange or counter-intuitive.

You think I'm arguing against contextual menus, but I'm not.

Contextual menus might be foreign to some Mac users but they've been a ubiquitous part of the windows world for a very long time.

I wouldn't say that's a good thing. I think contextual menus in Windows are, far too often, poorly or improperly implemented. See my AdAware reference above.

The argument against them (and 2-button mice as somehow above the "average" user) seems entirely predicated on aesthetics than on substance.

That's really not it. It's not an argument against contextual menus or against two button mice. I always have used a two button mouse, and I ordred a Mighty Mouse today. I like two button mice and I like contextual menus. I don't like poorly designed applications that use the right menu as a catch all for options that the designers couldn't think of a more appropriate location for.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

That's really not it. It's not an argument against contextual menus or against two button mice. I always have used a two button mouse, and I ordred a Mighty Mouse today. I like two button mice and I like contextual menus. I don't like poorly designed applications that use the right menu as a catch all for options that the designers couldn't think of a more appropriate location for.

I hear ya.

Personally, I get on my wife's iBook and I'm lost without a 2nd-button, I have to search for menu options that I'm accustomed to right-clicking for. Drives me nuts. I don't know how she gets anything done without a 2nd button.

Obviously its a matter of preference and I'm glad the system works both ways to accomodate both kinds of users.

I do think a lot of this talk about "average" users being unable to figure out is really far-fetched though.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by driven

That's the approach Microsoft takes with just about every aspect of Windows.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Is it that Microsoft listens to feedback from people who live at their computers and don't do anything about feedback they don't get from other people? I'm just not picking up on this "approach" thing.

As for what you get when you right click on something, that is definitely "static" in Windows in one sense: you get a "context menu." That means you get a menu that is contextually related to whatever it is you clicked on. THEN it gets interesting...

Having used a multi-button mouse with OS X, I can tell you that a lot of things that would take multiple steps through multiple menus are a lot easier and quicker with a right click. Further, the third button, if supported, would be even nicer; you could do all sorts of things with it. On my Windows machine I have a Logitech scroll mouse, and the scroll wheel button is assigned the "back" function-I can step back through web pages with a click wherever my cursor is on the page, which makes searching and validating searches a lot faster and easier. This new mouse has what, FIVE programmable buttons? That could actually be TOO MUCH!

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Actually you could use it if you use it for a different product group than for what it is registered. Television shows and computer mice are different product groups I would assume, so I'm somewhat surprised that Apple licensed the name.

Maybe it is to avoid a fiasco 15 years in the future when Apple starts making their own animated cartoon shorts, similar to the one they encounteded when Apple the computer company became Apple the music company and upset Apple Records.

[ManOfSteal]

Can we get a Mighty Mouse specific forum/topic please?

[Salty]

Dang... I might need to buy this... it'd be nice though this would seriously relegate my Tablet to pen only...

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker

Obviously its a matter of preference and I'm glad the system works both ways to accomodate both kinds of users.

Me too, I think it's a very accommodating system for both novice and power users. I just don't want it to start catering to the power user at the expense of the novice

I do think a lot of this talk about "average" users being unable to figure out is really far-fetched though.

I hope I didn't make it sound like I thought people who didn't know how to use right clicks were stupid. My dad is a doctor, far from stupid, and I see him fumble with the mouse all too often. I don't think any of the users I deal with at work are stupid. Computers just aren't their thing, and I don't expect them to want to know any more than they have to know to get their job done.

I certainly don't think a lack of knowledge or interest in computers makes someone stupid. It might make them a little less willing to learn and adapt, however.

[tooki]

jasonsrx7, you've been hitting the nail on the head over and over. Kudos!

tooki

[stevesnj]

No Education discount on this...hmmm

[moonmonkey]

what the hell has this crap to do with the new mouse.

[Demonhood]

they're $44 in the education store, from what i can tell.
might pick up a dozen or so for my users.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by tooki

jasonsrx7, you've been hitting the nail on the head over and over. Kudos!

Originally Posted by Demonhood

might pick up a dozen or so for my users

You mean.... us?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker

Then their preferences shouldn't count for much.

Seriously. Every time this issue comes up, we get a swarm of anecdotes about people who just can't figure out right-clicking. I guess I don't see any reason to halt the march of progress for people without the mental capacity or motor skills to master a 2-button mouse. It should be a 1-button mouse that is the novelty option, IMO, not the other way round.

So because some people don't use their computers all the time, Apple shouldn't make the OS easy for them?

How is not having two buttons "halting the march progress?" If you are a novice user... just keep the 1 button mouse. If you are a pro, go get a multi-button mouse. They cost around $5.

[jasonsRX7]

I just got shipping confirmation on my Mighty Mouse! Let the package tracking begin.

[TailsToo]

If it was wireless & bluetooth, I'd buy it for use with my powerbook.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

My dad is a doctor, far from stupid, and I see him fumble with the mouse all too often. I don't think any of the users I deal with at work are stupid. Computers just aren't their thing, and I don't expect them to want to know any more than they have to know to get their job done.

I certainly don't think a lack of knowledge or interest in computers makes someone stupid. It might make them a little less willing to learn and adapt, however.

Kudos! Exactly the right point! If you are a power user (or want to be one) then having the flexibility to do things differently-and maybe quicker-is not a bad thing, but having those options foisted onto you, or maybe being bludgeoned by them is a better term, is just plain wrong. Most Windows users who get in trouble do so because there are too damn many ways to do something, and they almost all work differently from one another. In the Mac world, a fifty-leven button, fully levitated, super-telepathic mouse would be useless or worse to a majority of users, NOT because they're not bright enough to use the features, but because they DON'T NEED those features.

I hope a LOT that these new mice do not become the standard mouse shipped with every Mac. At most a two button mouse, whose second button you can ignore, would be acceptable. As my wife and I started out with Windows, we're used to getting something "interesting" from a right click, but we're not completely dependent on it. And building completely new motor skills for a mouse with a bunch of functions is not what most users want; they want to do what they've been doing easier and maybe faster.

[RAILhead]

Sweet! Mine's shipped already, too, and it will be here Saturday via FedEx Home Delivery!

Cripes -- and I finally got an iPod Shuffle, so this is a good week for me!

Maury

[FulcrumPilot]

Originally Posted by Demonhood

might pick up a dozen or so for my users.

what do you use your users for?

[budster101]

I'd like to see a bluetooth version, then I'd jump at that. Right now I'm sticking with my Logictech scroll wheel two button that I've had for quite a few years.

[jasonsRX7]

I've only used a couple of Apple BT mice, but in my limited experience with them, I could detect just a bit of lag. One was on a PM G5, the other was on an iMac G5. They both had about the same amount of delay when moving. Not much, but enough for me to notice, and I think I'd be annoyed by it if it was mine. Is that typical of them, or was I just using a couple of lemons?

[ender2002]

if anyone wants a video review...

http://theory.isthereason.com/?p=300

[Kerrigan]

^^^
That was fast

[Salty]

I might buy one when I get my G5... this'd be a great addition. That said a I'd probably get a bluetooth one for my PowerBook if available.

[ManOfSteal]

Just got back from the Woodfield Mall Apple Store (Schaumburg, IL) and they were sold-out of them already....but I did play with one. Not bad in person, not bad at all. Will I buy one? No, but I don't need one either. I was very impressed with how smooth the scroll-wheel was and the different options for the buttons.

[Hawkeye_a]

This mouse looks great.

im all for wireless mice, but i hate the idea of having to buy batteries. If this mouse has a rechargable built in battery that can recharge over FW/USB2 while being used as a wired mouse , that would be awesome.

[budster101]

That would be perfect.