[FTrain]

Why should I buy a new iMac over a pretty loaded Dell. I love Apple. I have a very old Mac on my desk at home right now. I never thought I'd buy a Windows machine. But, I've been talking with some knowledgable people, some who are Mac-philes and some who prefer Windows, and I'm having trouble figuring out why I should buy a new iMac when, for the same or very similar money, I can buy a Dell with a larger, Trinitron monitor, more memory, a larger hard-drive and an operating system that (according to almost everything I read) is now pretty damned stable and easy to use. Even the Mac-addicts I know who have used XP are saying they think it's actually pretty well done. It's not OS X, but it's also not bad. I need a new PC for productivity stuff, email and Web surfing. Either computer will do that. I'm no gamer or graphic designer, so what's the sales pitch for the new iMac--and it's got to be something more than it's a space saver (not an issue) and it's pretty. Please don't hate me, just help me justify the Mac purchase. As I said in my other thread, I want to justify it, so tell me what I want to hear if you can. And please don't let Wiggles hijack the thread. If he has a valid point, hear him out. If not, ignore him.

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: FTrain ]

[kstevens]

I don't see any particular reason to "convince" you since it seems like you have already decided.


Ken

[Jansar]

As a Mac user, of course you're going to hear me tell you how much better a Mac is going to be for you. Although pricewise, Macintosh computers fail miserably, you are rewarded with a significantly faster computer (except for gaming, THAT'S IT) and a much more stable operating system. Mac OS X is even more stable than OS 9, and it doesn't crash as often, and before OS X's release OS 9 was the most stable operating system.

Since you say that yo were not going to use the computer for much, then you can aim for an iMac, either the new ones or the older CRT ones. That way, you never have to complain about speed issues, because with a Mac, there are none.

[rjc3]

4 reasons:
iTunes
iMovie
iDVD
iPhoto (okay, maybe only 3 reasons)

Mac would look much cooler than Dell

it would prevent Gates from aquiring any more power or wealth

much more secure on internet and with viruses (XP has some glaring security issues)

cooler OS - XP is pretty nice, but, at least in my opinion, OS X blows it away in user experience

if, as you claim, the performance and price are roughly the same, look to the details - coolness, wow factor, aestetics, etc. - definately all in favor of apple

[Jansar]

I couldn't have said that myself. It was SO true.

[ckohler]

One big reason to use a Mac in my opinion is because they typically just flat out work. This comes from the fact that Apple makes both the hardware and the software.

There's a lot going on underneath a Microsoft OS that can make the whole system fail. There are an almost infinite number of PC configurations that can cause driver headaches and unexplainable errors. Most 95% of the computing world is willing to put up with that level of disfunction and abiguity. I'm not. I look foward to coming home to my Mac where the OS is stable and reliable, where removing an application simply means deleting it. I like not having to worry about editing a registry or dealing with hidden files. In all, everything just syncs.

[ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: ckohler ]

[higuy83]

FTrain-

I was in the same situation you are now in two (or so) years ago. I had been a Mac user during the early 90s, then switched to PCs because they had cooler games and everyone had one. After a few years of putzing around in the Windows world, I came to realize that I longed for the simplicity, ease of use, design, and aesthetics of a Mac. I got a Performa 6400, and never looked back...

I found that Macs were not only useful computers, but also machines that had a personality all their own. I mean, one cannot look at the old iMacs and not see some character in the curves of the plastic. While PC manufactures have attempted to be copy this personality, they always seem to miss something. In addition, Macintoshes are powerful, STABLE machines, and outlast all other computers (in terms of performance and wearing out.)

FTrain, I whole-heartedly think that you should purchase a Mac instead of a Dell. (Go for the new iMac... I ordered mine and cannot wait!) I know that you won't have any regrets, and will be happier in the long run. Good luck in your decision! Apple, Apple, Apple...

-B

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: higuy83 ]

[goatnet]

"I need a new PC for productivity stuff, email and Web surfing."

Just wondering, why would you need a new PC or Mac for that? Last time I checked MS Office, Outlook Express and a web browser didn't need a half a gig of ram or a 2Ghz processor.

Why would I purchase a new iMac? It takes up the space my current 17" CRT monitor. And I love Unix. 50 different ways to do one task

[Jansar]

Originally posted by goatnet:
<STRONG>"I need a new PC for productivity stuff, email and Web surfing."

Just wondering, why would you need a new PC or Mac for that? Last time I checked MS Office, Outlook Express and a web browser didn't need a half a gig of ram or a 2Ghz processor.

Why would I purchase a new iMac? It takes up the space my current 17" CRT monitor. And I love Unix. 50 different ways to do one task </STRONG>

What do you expect him/her to buy? An Xbox?

[BobK]

Do it ! The only thing is I don't want to hear from you back here bitching about XP- or windows.
I gotta say, you get what you pay for, if it is to good to be true it is to good to be true. This has been my experience.
When I see ads for these PC's it reminds me of an infomerical- we they keep throwing in more and more stuff. Why do they need to throw some much stuff if, if it is so good in the first place?

[mbperk]

Originally posted by ckohler:
<STRONG>One big reason to use a Mac in my opinion is because they typically just flat out work. This comes from the fact that Apple makes both the hardware and the software.

There's a lot going on underneath a Microsoft OS that can make the whole system fail. There are an almost infinite number of PC configurations that can cause driver headaches and unexplainable errors. Most 95% of the computing world is willing to put up with that level of disfunction and abiguity. I'm not. I look foward to coming home to my Mac where the OS is stable and reliable, where removing an application simply means deleting it. I like not having to worry about editing a registry or dealing with hidden files. In all, everything just syncs.

</STRONG>

Bravo! After working on a PC all day there is nothing better than coming home and working on my Mac. I mean really it is a pleasure to use it.

[mbperk]

Originally posted by BobK:
<STRONG>When I see ads for these PC's it reminds me of an infomerical- </STRONG>

That Dell kid is a dumba**. I really hate those commericals.

[VanToffler]

If you have already used a Mac extensively and still don't "get it", then there's probably no use in talking you into buying another Mac.

My Mom used a Mac for 4-years then got a PC for Christmas 2000, and now she calls me 3 times a week so I can PCAnywhere to her Intel box to fix Windows. She wishes she had her Mac back and so do I!

My wife had a Mac for a couple years, then decided she had to get compatbile with the world (she's a writer) and use Windows. Then six-months ago I was going to return a new Dual USB iBook for a TiBook when she asked if we could keep both. She is using an iBook now and her PC has long since been discarded.

Well I said I wouldn't try to convince you, but I guess I did anyway. Just my personal experience with folks who left Mac and came back. By the way, I did exactly the same thing. There has never been a better time to be a Mac user. If you jump ship now, I hope you have plenty of money to buy a new Mac 6-12 months later once you "get it".

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: VanToffler ]

[goatnet]

"What do you expect him/her to buy? An Xbox?"

Actually, the post was a pretty loaded Dell

Why? Do you really *NEED* 1+ ghz to run applications? Last time I checked, my old pentium 100mhz ran just fine for my parents doing just that. All they need was a computer for email, web and word processor. It runs fine, but a little slow. Unless you're an all out gamer or dealing with large graphic files, where's the justification?

Do you really need to spend over a 1200 bucks on a computer that can do the same tasks a $200 computer bought off ebay can do?

[hardcat1970]

i always feel this kind of question is so silly!!

why should i convince you to use a mac? why should i tell you what to buy? you are a grown-up right? if you comfortable with pc, go ahead and buy a dell! vice versa!

sorry for being so rude! but you should know what is good for you! you are in a mac forum, of course, everyone will telling you mac is so cool.

[darcybaston]

The XPerience with a PC is very luke warm. Complicated, ugly, features get in the way instead of actually helping. Incessant pop ups for you to use Microsoft this, Microsoft that but not presented in the form of choices, but in the form of "this is your only choice". If you're not careful, you'll end up using their own software only and hurt the economy.

I just got back from fixing (or rather attemping to) fix a PC with a motherboard matched up with the wrong BIOS so that 128 megs of ram wouldn't be recognized past 32 megs. Their desktop pattern was fixed and it wouldn't let me change it. I had to kill the 'display properties' task countless times before it let me change the desktop bg color! Damn Windows registry...most accident/problem prone way of keeping track of software and settings ever made.

Speaking of the registry, with a Windows machine, you have to be careful enough to choose where you install your software the first time. You can't change it easily afterwards without uninstalling and reinstalling into the new path. Not a problem on OS X considering it puts apps into a bundle that you place wherever the hell you feel like.

When you take a Mac with a CDRW drive out of its box, you can start burning a cd as soon as it boots for the first time. On a windows machine, you have to hope they included cd burning software. Even in XP, the built in burning features are a joke and tend to make coasters. Also in XP, you get a choice of logging out or switching users. Do a switch instead of a logout and your software may behave strangely.

Multiple user accounting on an XP box is horrible. The desktop is global, you can't isolate things like Real Player or ICQ away from 'less privileged' users like children. So if mom or dad go to www.adultsomething.com and view a movie, the kids will see the history buffer. Also, many kids games can only be installed in an administrator's account, and the children's account often can't use the games because the files are protected. OS X has the best local/global application system because Unix privileges just rock.

Drivers. A Mac out of the box works with all of its internal software, because Apple takes the care to make sure it does for you. With a Windows machine, especially XP, drivers is still very annoying. MS has some software engine in XP that runs in the background making sure that 'this driver was not approved by Microsoft, blah blah blah, we've halted the installation of your hardware for you, you're welcome". Granted Dell fixes this up for you before the computer gets to you, but it's still unfriendly and discouraging.

XP is a wonderful improvement in terms of stability and finess, but as far as intrusive this and that go...it's a corporate OS that doesn't inspire creative freedom. It inspires a learning curve you may not enjoy. It also inspires $40 per hour at your local service shop the moment the registry loses 3 bytes of information. Unix separates its system config files into separate entities so if some corruption occurs in one file, the system has a greater probability of continuing.

I've only used a Mac for 1.5 years. The other years since 1985 were all PC. If a 1.5 year time frame can be so much fun, problem free and returns greater value for the buck, I consider the other dozen+ years a waste of time. (Well not quite, they taught me how to do what works vs. what seems 'right'.)

Decide what your intentions are, how you wish to create your computer experience. Be mindful of the trickle of control and money trails Microsoft puts all over their products, and ask yourself if you'd like to participate in something like that. Apple creates new futures while Wintel getups try to control it. Apple tells you what 'their' vision of the future is, others tell you what IS the future and you'd be best to follow or get judged as inadequate. Wintels serve the machine, Apple serves you. Pick what you feel is closer to your truth and who you are.

Yup, I'm weird. But damn I'm happy! Nothing is more relaxing than a restful Mac experience at home after a drudgery of square and corporate Windows at work. (Of course that's just my experience, yours may be different but I hope its similar regardless of your choice.)

best wishes,
Darcy B.

[lee vieira]

Originally posted by goatnet:
<STRONG>"I need a new PC for productivity stuff, email and Web surfing."

Just wondering, why would you need a new PC or Mac for that? Last time I checked MS Office, Outlook Express and a web browser didn't need a half a gig of ram or a 2Ghz processor.
</STRONG>

Yup. Also consider that MS Office v.X for OS X is fully compatible with the Winblows version, and considered by most reviewers to be superior to it.

Much as I dislike Microsoft, they make some damn fine Mac productivity apps.


--lee

[vmarks]

Originally posted by mbperk:
<STRONG>

Bravo! After working on a PC all day there is nothing better than coming home and working on my Mac. I mean really it is a pleasure to use it.</STRONG>

I thought your work let you use your Mac there: didn't they start out by buying you the powerbook g4 and office 2001 way back when?

Did something happen and you had to go back to using PCs there?

--Victor Marks

[MacGorilla]

Simply put: M$ just keeps piling it on. Apple knows when to stop.

[donncha]

Originally posted by darcybaston:
<STRONG>MS has some software engine in XP that runs in the background making sure that 'this driver was not approved by Microsoft, blah blah blah, we've halted the installation of your hardware for you, you're welcome".
</STRONG>

Also, Microsoft is heading down the "Nanny State" route, bending over backwards for the entertainment industry and planning all sorts of restrictions upon your rights to burn CDs, rip CDs, rip DVDs etc.

Sure, some of that is illegal if you then sell it on to people, but it's perfectly fine if you're just making a backup, or aren't sharing the MP3s over the web.

Either way, I'd prefer to make the choice myself, rather than being restricted...

donncha
PS: Yes, it is a relief to come home after a Windows 2000 day and log on to OS X!

[osiris]

If that's the way you feel go buy the pc system.

Microsoft will be your partner and friend. They have a reputation for good, honest business practices with a penchant for doing good for consumers!
And we all know how detail oriented they are - I even heard they have the most secure operating system on the planet.

HA!

Yeah I know it's tempting, but really - get an iMac and run VPC for whatever crap you need. You'll be sorry if you don't because Steve will come to your house when you're sleeping and hit you on the head with a keyboard to wake you up from whatever illness you've succumbed to.

The Macs are well-built and reliable machines with a great OS that's easy to use. What the heck else do you need?

[Bubba]

Think about this (originally from an iMac designer):

The BACK of the iMacs (expecially the CRT ones) look better than the front of a PC!!

I thought that was just bang on!! The design efforts by apple are just completely out of this world compared to the PC world!

HTH

Jason

[CreepDogg]

Originally posted by FTrain:
<STRONG>O(About XP) It's not OS X, but it's also not bad.</STRONG>

In my mind, you just answered the question yourself right there. I go to the store and see 2 products on the shelf. Why would I buy the inferior one, unless overall it is vastly cheaper and all I really need?

PCs many times have a cheaper upfront cost - but all the headaches and the cost of updating this, and upgrading that adds up over time way more than it does with a Mac. Look at the 'average' lifespan (I've seen stats in other forums) - for PCs it's generally a shade under 2 years, for Macs a shade under 4) - would you pay 10% more for a product that will last twice as long?

I see a lot of people get hung up on specs - 'this one has a 19" monitor while this other one has a 15" LCD', etc. Specs are nice, but at the end of the day they don't do your work for you - I think it's more important to look at the whole machine -hardware, software, etc. and pick the one that best lets you do what you want to do. I want a computer that works for me, rather than forcing me to work for it, and I find that a Mac is much better suited to do that than a PC.

Example - everyone says PCs have way more software than Macs. That's true - partially because it takes 4 apps to rip a CD, encode it, mix songs, and burn a new CD (OK - maybe I'm exaggerating, but that's the best I could find for free PC software to do this...). With a Mac, there's one - iTunes. The apps are much more elegant and work for you in more ways than PC apps do - PC apps are great if you like to fiddle with settings all the time instead of actually doing work.

Personally, I think the new iMac is one of the best overall computing packages I've seen put together - it's astounding what it can do for you out of the box - in a few minutes. It may not always have the fastest this or the biggest that, but is that really important? If it is, you're probably better off with a PC - but that's certainly not me.

By the way - the only reason I haven't ordered a new iMac is because I still have a lot of life left in my old one (2 yrs old)!

Peace.

[benschilke]

FTrain, I think it�s a fine idea to come on here and ask mac users to argue that their preferred platform is the better one.

For me, the most unsettling consequence of buying a Windows PC is the support it gives Big Brother. MicroSoft is a ruthless enterprise and the fact that XP is loaded with the previously mentioned pop-up windows steering you to their proprietary software, email, media concerns, etc. is scary. But it�s all about your perception of a computer...I see Macs as beautifully- and well-designed tools that will last longer than most PCs, and will provide a higher-quality service than most PCs. If you see a computer as just something to get a job done and you want to save a couple bucks, than you want a PC.

[smacintush]

Longer life.

Macs have approx. 45 known viruses, PC's have over 50,000.

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: smacintush ]

[jamex]

holy sH!+! pay attention boys and girls.....darcybaston is more on the money then you're likely to hear anywhere else. Most zealots read shit and already know enough of the differences between mac and pc's to let those that walk astray, falll flat on their faces (as they should). But as someone who makes their living off of pc support, let me tell you this guy holds the key to what keeps apple alive today.

I work for a company (a very LARGE one at that), that is forced to choose from a different vendor of PC's every year, with different components/options....simply because the options exist, and a savings can be had in this price war (if you don't already know, this DRIVES corporate sales). This leads to a nightmare most could never understand....just to insure these "bargains" will actually work 6 months later.

you may bitch about a company that only updates their pro machines every 6 months.....i assure you this is more to your advantage than most of you will every appreciate. there are only a handful of mac configurations right now...........PRAISE JESUS!!!!!!!!! Pick up a newspaper sometime and see how many people are offering you a different pc variety these days. Wonder why they're so cheap? Cuz the out of box experience is not an experience.......its a game of chance....maybe you'll be happy, maybe not....but who cares, right?! it was cheaper than a mac.

you get what you pay for. if you're willing to pay a little more, you can have you're own car......wanna save a few bucks? it's the city bus for your ass. Ever ride an hour and a half with the smell of fresh puke in your nostrils? yeah? you must own a pc!

Understand what you're paying for. everyone has that restaurant you refuse to eat at again......please don't eat at DELL again.

my rash still hasn't gone away.

[talisker]

A key reason I prefer Macs is that I've always used (and probably always will use) PCs at work. It'd be too much like being in the office using Windows at home.

[michaelb]

Whatever you buy, if you do much reading on a computer, get an LCD over a CRT.

Your eyes will love you for it.

[Heman]

FTrain

I own a B&W G3 tower with OSX. And a home-built AMD box with XP Pro. I use both platforms all the time. I use the Mac for web, email and web site testing. As for the windows box, I load all my games on it and play it over the internet with my buddy, I also do linux/Unix/MS servers and network thingy, Web site development etc.. Both platform crash as much under win9x/OS8x. Both solid as rock under win2K/XP/OSX.

So here is my suggestion.

1. Look around your friends, if they all got Macs, then there is no reason to get a Wintel PC and be an island in the ocean, and vice versa. coz you got help from your friends just in case you got problems.

2. I would suggest you to play around both platform for a week or so.(Of course on OSX and XP) and see which one you like most. Don't compare the hardware if they're pretty much the same configuration. It is the OS and software that matters and make the whole difference.

3. Choosing a platform is really depends on your personal taste. again, play around on both platform and make you own decision.

4. Both platform can be as stable or crash like hell, it really depends on how well you maintain them.

My .5 cent

[FTrain]

Thanks for all the great replies. A few comments:
The replies are appreciated because the decision really hasn't been made.

Sorry if this kind of post pisses some of you off. But everybody under the sun writes about Windows, so where else would I go to get feedback on Macs from people who actually know about them and may have experience with both platforms? Was I going to go to a Windows forum? Many/most of the people on a Windows forum wouldn't even have experience with a Mac (or that experience was many years ago), but because Windows dominates the market, everybody here will have experience with both so can provide real feedback on the comparison. Yes, I know there's going to be a natural bias here and I can read every post with the necessary grain of salt. But some of you have made some great points and provided (for me, the uneducated) some very valuable information.

Goatnet, my old Mac is OLD--not a Classic, but it might as well be for the limited power it has. I really do need a new PC for Web/email.

I didn't know Office for OS X was compatible with the Windows version--that's very useful to know.

Darcybaston, great post. I don't know what some of the things are that you mentioned, but I understand enough and you make some great points.

higuy83, that really is the boat I'm in and you present my great worry and why I think I'll end up with the Mac--I know I won't have any serious regrets getting the Mac (unless that little chrome arm has problems), but regrets are very possible with Windows.

Heman, that's the approach I'm taking. I'm not ordering anything until I can actually see and try out the new iMac and play around with XP. I have no experience with either OS.

Again, thanks for the info and perspective.

[TNproud2b]

Wow, darcy, been a while since you've used Windows?

Was that Win95? a seven year old operating system?

It's not nearly as bad as all that...anymore.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Heman:
<STRONG>Don't compare the hardware if they're pretty much the same configuration. It is the OS and software that matters and make the whole difference. </STRONG>

I respectfully disagree with this. On Apple computers, the functionality and OS design extends to every detail of the hardware as well.

If you've ever used an iBook or a tiBook, you'll know what I mean - there is an insane attention to detail that makes using these machines immensely more pleasurable than standard beige boxen or comparable Wintel laptops.

I agree that if you're talking about certain needs the equipment needs to fill, then software and OS are most important. But the hardware aspect (NOT the specs!) is *not* that easily discounted.

-chris.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by FTrain:
<STRONG>I know I won't have any serious regrets getting the Mac (unless that little chrome arm has problems)</STRONG>

Last weekend's Viewer Mail segment on www.appleturns.com includes a wonderful little letter by "roach" who walked up to one of the showfloor models at the Macworld, grabbed it by the neck, and gave it a royal throttling and a hefty swing. No adverse effects.

The neck is built to be a handle. Jonathan Ive (the designer himself) says so too.

-chris.

[PrinceMac]

Many mac users on the most part have quite a bit of experience with PC and Windows, yet we still prefer Macs. Why is that? I don't know many PC users who've used Mac extensively and strongly prefer PCs. Honestly. They marginally prefer PCs cuz there are more options (software etc.). And I won't argue with that point. There are more.

I made the switch to PCs three years ago, and use them at work. I have a laptop, and Dual Processor Compaq decked out with a 17 inch LCD at work. No slouches. I got a PIII for home three years ago. You know what I did with that PC? I gave it away. I used to love computing, and using my mac for all the things I loved. I dabbled with graphic design, 3D work, writing, surfing the web, playing games, and just hacking around. I grduated from college, and decided to be compatible with work. The biggest mistake in computing I ever made. I realize now, I could care less about being compatible with work. I don't take work home, and why I want to? Even if I did a Mac would be fine for that as well. I surfed the web with my PC at home and played a few games, but in the end that thing killed all the love I once had for using computers. The thing deadened creativty. I don't know how. It just did. I had the same Apps, PhotoShope, Freehand, etc, etc., but it just wasn't the same. I don't know how to explain it, but Mac are just more creative. It's weird.

Ever since Apple introduce the new iBook last year, I've been forlornly perusing the mac sites, and using my friend's machines. I am the prodigal son, and I think the new iMac will be my savior.

If you're at all interested in living the "digital lifestyle" with the camera's etc, be prepared for a world of pain in the PC world. You can do everything, but the technology gets in the way of creativity. I would trade my Compaq Dual Processor for even an old Snow/Graphite iMac anyday. Yes, Windows XP is the best thing MS has done, but underneath it's still a complicated mess. Part of the beauty of Mac is the relative simplicity - the lack of too many options.

PrinceMac

[The Ginger Rat]

XP has its supporters and detractors, as does OS X. Some of the diatribes against XP's deficiencies, and not just from Mac folk, have been rather bitter. Sounds as if what XP does well, it does very well, but where it falls flat it is pretty serious.

I agree with those who said you have to go try them both out. As far as the UI goes, that will be personal preference. For browsing, email- no real difference b/w the two platforms. For word processing, etc., there are low end options that will allow exporting to Office doc formats if you need to go between platforms (except Access, of course)

As for support- in my personal experience, if you go the PC route you need a good source of technical know-how, either yourself or other. Some of the problems are just too bloody difficult to figure out. When I get a BSOD on the PC at home which isn't fixed by a restart, I wait for the family expert to get home; I just am not comfortable fooling with drivers etc (this is in Win Me, BTW; I am not going NEAR XP any time soon)My Mac (G3 266, OS 9.2) I take care of quite nicely myself.

Ok, that's enough objectivity I stick with my Mac, even contriving some semi-silly solutions, because I think it is the best *personal* computer experience around, for me. I ENJOY playing my Mac, looking at my Mac, even working with my Mac. But those are my priorities. YMMV. Whatever you choose, all the best of luck with it!

[driven]

Originally posted by FTrain:
<STRONG>Why should I buy a new iMac over a pretty loaded Dell. I love Apple. I have a very old Mac on my desk at home right now. I never thought I'd buy a Windows machine. But, I've been talking with some knowledgable people, some who are Mac-philes and some who prefer Windows, and I'm having trouble figuring out why I should buy a new iMac when, for the same or very similar money, I can buy a Dell with a larger, Trinitron monitor, more memory, a larger hard-drive and an operating system that (according to almost everything I read) is now pretty damned stable and easy to use. Even the Mac-addicts I know who have used XP are saying they think it's actually pretty well done. It's not OS X, but it's also not bad. I need a new PC for productivity stuff, email and Web surfing. Either computer will do that. I'm no gamer or graphic designer, so what's the sales pitch for the new iMac--and it's got to be something more than it's a space saver (not an issue) and it's pretty. Please don't hate me, just help me justify the Mac purchase. As I said in my other thread, I want to justify it, so tell me what I want to hear if you can. And please don't let Wiggles hijack the thread. If he has a valid point, hear him out. If not, ignore him.

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: FTrain ]</STRONG>

Try comparing against the Dell with a flat screen. (Not the Trinitron's which are becoming cheap commodity items now.) That will bring the two closer together.

That said .... buy what you want. It's your money and ultimately your decision that you'll have to live with.

[malvolio]

I have two PC-using friends who both recently switched to WinXP (I know I shouldn't consort with the Enemy, but in all other respects they are fine people).
In many ways they find XP to be a significant improvement. However, the issue of compatibility gives them both screaming fits! A basic task like reading a CD burned in Win98 presents all kinds of problems.
I showed one of my friends how I use iTunes to burn a music CD. He was convinced that I had spent hours setting things up ahead of time, in order to have the process run so smoothly and simply!

[Arkham_c]

I have a lot of computers at home. Too many of them really. My wife and I use 4 of them on a regular basis. They are:

1) A Celeron 366 running Windows 98
2) A P3 750 running Windows XP
3) A G4/450/Radeon running MacOS X 10.1.2
4) An iBook/600/DVD running MacOS X 10.1.2

The Win98 machine is my wife's PC. I haven't upgraded her to anything newer because I don't want to screw up her system. It's not fast enough to run WinXP, so I'd be upgrading it to ME, and the advantages are not worth it.

The WinXP machine is my PC. I use it to get into the VPN at work using their VPN software (Windows only). XP is a pretty nice OS. I've never crashed it. It's very annoying though in places, essentially forcing you to get a Passport account just to make it shut up. It also tends to pop up all these annoying little "help bubbles" in the tray. Overall, a decent OS, though not worth paying $200 for it (I have the XP Pro version with the Plus pack).

The G4 is my server. It runs half a dozen virtual hosted web sites with its built-in apache server. It's rock solid and fast as hell. The OS is nice and easy to use. I also play games on it.

The iBook is my every-day machine. It runs OSX like a champ with the upgraded RAM. I control the other three machines from it remotely using Timbuktu Pro. I have VPC5 with Win98 on it on the rare occasions I need to do something in Windows away from home (like running the VPN software). I run 99% OSX-native software, occasionally firing up Classic for Photoshop or some odd utility.

Macs are just more elegant than PCs. PCs work fine and will let you get your job done. It's up to you whether a more elegant experience is wortht he price premium it commands.

[Wardy]

Originally posted by ckohler:
<STRONG>One big reason to use a Mac in my opinion is because they typically just flat out work.</STRONG>

I have to agree here. My Dell laptop I have to use at work is just plain cruddy. It looks like crap after only 6 months of use. The plastic is all faded and creaky.

I'm constantly wrestling with dial-in and all manner of "surprises" windoze decides to spring on me each morning. It often takes me 30 mins to get connected back to work each morning.

The s/w seems to follow suit here too.

Put simply, Mac's just let you get things done. windoze seems to try it's hardest to stop you.

Obsolecense is another issue too. My 3 1/2 yr old iMac is working fine. I am only thinking of upgrading it to get CD/RW and firewire. Yes, I know I can get them on this but it seems like more trouble than just getting a nice, shiny LCD iMac

If it wasn't for my purchase of a digital camcorder, this machine would do me for another year or two easily. I'm on only my 2nd Mac in almost 9 years. In any case, it will find something to do around the house - probably for the wife and kids

Hope you make a choice you're happy with, a week after the cheque clears

[Mastrap]

What's the point in posting this? Buy whatever you like. If you really think that the Dell offers more value for money you obviously haven't done your homework anyway.

[vanguard]

I used both everyday. My work machine, an IBM thinkpad, is fine. It mostly works but I have a zillion small complaints.

A plastic piece fell off and now some sort of electronic contact patch is exposed.

It crashes about once a week. (Seems to be related to switching wireless networks)

It's slow to wake from sleep. (I don't know how apple does this instantly)

If it stays up for a few days in a row the sound turns into pure static. I have to mute it because it's just noise.

If it stays up for a few days the "turn of z: drive" little app won't respond. That means I can't undock without getting warnings of unsafe undocking.

Beyond all that, the windows machine just isn't fun. When I'm at home surfing the web, checking my mail, etc. (doing the things you asked about) I reach for my iBook every time.

You may be thinking, an OS is fun? But actually, yeah. OS X has fung shei. (I can't spell it)

Vangaurd

[Eug]

My Win 2000 PC runs smoothly. It's ugly but it does what it needs to do, and it does it well with some niggling issues. There are some things my PC does that my Mac just can't do easily.

My OS X.1.2 iBook runs smooth. It's beautiful and it does it needs to do, and it does it well with some niggling issues. There are some things my Mac does that my PC just can't do easily.

You've asked a very tough question. But consider this, IF you know how to set up a PC, you MAY get a killer deal by going PC. OTOH, a new iMac is quite capable on its own and reasonable for the price for what you get, with the added benefit of looking nice (lamp-nice) and saving space.

Take an "inventory" of what exactly you need to do. Then compare GOOD QUALITY machines in the same price range and see which does it better, including OS X vs. Win XP/2000. Then decide yourself.[/LIST]
[ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: Eug ]