[stevesnj]

Hey everyone...I want to plan a trip to a few European destinations. I am leaving from Philadelphia and want to go to London, Paris, Bremen, Germany (meeting someone) maybe Spain (Barcelona) then back to Philadelphia. I don't mind sleeping on trains and traveling on the cheap any way possible. Any tips on saving money while in those cities? mostly Im concerned with sleeping which I dont care where since I will be out and about most of the time. I can eat like a mouse and want to take my PowerBook to communicate. Dont' know if its a good idea to lug a 17" PowerBook around Europe...lol

Any help is welcome. I can only go end of June, since I am a teacher, and have a few months to work with but I think 10 days is enough for me in Europe.

[Mastrap]

10 days to do Europe? Forgive me for using this, but

London alone needs at least a week, so does Paris, so does Barcelona. Otherwise just don't bother.

I don't know how old you are, but if you're under 25 you could get yourself an Interrail ticket. Unlimited train travel on a budget. If you're clever you can use the trains as rolling hotels,

[stevesnj]

It seems you need to be a European citizen or non-european citizen with a European Passport to do Interrail...huh...lol...thats what their site says.

I guess it looks like 2 weeks may be a better stay...but im 35...and living on a teachers salary, which is enough said....lol

[milhous]

What you need is a Eurail Pass:

http://www.raileurope.com/us/index.htm

Hostels are also good places to stay, private hostels are the best compared to ones offered by HI.

http://www.hostelworld.com

Also, consider the use of low-cost airlines where you can fly point-to-point for ridiculously cheap prices.

http://www.easyjet.com
http://www.ryanair.com
http://www.flybmi.com

Good Luck.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Tips:

* Don't fly with Ryanair
* Keep a watchful eye on your PB
* Use trains
* Pick two or three places at most to visit. 10 days is not enough for any more sightseeing. Haste makes waste.
* Southern Europe is cheaper than Northern Europe (by a wide margine)
* London is one of the most expensive cities in the world.
* Barcelona is worth all your ten days

cheers

W-Y

[Mastrap]

Huh? What's yer beef with Ryaniar? I've got more trips with Ryanair under my belt than I care to remember, with no problems whatsoever.

[Randman]

For 10 days, pick two cities. Normally, I'd say London and Paris.

If you're going in the winter, consider southern climates as well.

The trains are nice but don't try to do much otherwise you'll spend 90% of your time in transit and really won't get to experience Europe.

[stevesnj]

Well I am meeting someone in Northern Germany so i need to do that part of Germany. I am going to fly into Heathrow I figured...take the TVR to Paris, then to Germany by train...dunno..ughhh

[freudling]

You want to do Europe on a budget but you picked the most expensive places to go. 10 days. Forget it. I laugh at people that run through. Take it easy and reduce your routing. Eurorail for 10 days is not the best option. Since your destinations are quite far, the train will cut into your vacation too much. You will fly. You will wing it as well. The major airports like London Stansted and Heathrow can get you anywhere for cheap. Then you should start there, since flying from NA to London is the standard and cheaper. You will look at the interenet and get the hostels on paper before your trip. Travel LIGHT. As for the train stations, they will cause stress. Very, very busy, confusing if you don't speak the language, etc. If you are that strapped, live off of Kebobs (turkish wraps). Germany has many. 4 euros to fill you up. Buy bread and meat and put it in your pack, as well as milk. The milk won't go bad since you don't have to refrigerate most. Be weary of cabs, but London the cabs are excellent and cheap comparatively.

Watch your wallet at all times. When you find cheap bottled water, go for it. Stay away from buying bottled water at any airport and only buy the well-known stuff. If you are really hungry, chocolate bars are always cheap. Don't eat the fast food like McDonalds, way too expensive. Again, hit the grocery stores and stock up, the food is good and cheap there. Look into buying a day pass for transit if you will be in a city cruisin. Study maps of the cities before you go.

A rant: people want to go to Europe on a budget, but pick the priciest cities in the world. Although you might be able to squeak by, will you really enjoy what the city has to offer if you are broke eating bread and a crappy hostel? You can do it, but there are other areas in Europe, like central and eastern that are cool too.

[GSixZero]

There's good stuff in this thread. Here are the highlights, IMO:

-10 days isn't very long, pick two places to go, and buy a plane ticket to get between them. Trying to see too much is the easiest mistake to make. Better to really experience two cities than spending one day in 5. You'll save a lot of time checking in and out of hotels, waiting and sitting on trains.
- Eat from grocery stores. A baguette, some cheese and some meat can make a fantastic meal. Feel free to pick up a bottle of wine or beer at the store. It's legal to drink on the street most places.
- Stay at hostels. Most cities have decent dormitory beds available for less than €20 per night. London maybe more expensive.
- For the cheapest experience possible (hostels, eating from the store, one entrance fee per day, etc) expect to spend ~€50-€60 per day. This doesn't include big transportation like intercity trains or flights. For a slightly nicer trip (Private rooms, and eating a meal or two a day at restraunts, expect to about double that, €100-€150 per day.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by freudling

If you are really hungary

No no no, he said he wants to go to England, France, Germany, and Spain.

[brapper]

10 days? I say only do 3 cities.
London, Paris, Barcelona.
Don't stretch it.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by freudling

... The milk won't go bad since you don't have to refrigerate most. ...

Dude, that must be for one of the following reasons:

1. You were stoned most of the time while traveling through Europe and didn't notice that your milk was, in reality, about to grow green hair and a pair of legs, or ...
2. Europeans pasteurize their cows so they don't have to do the same thing with the milk, or ...
3. You bought nothing but what in Germany for example, is called H-milk ("H" for "haltbar", literal translation = "durable", as in: pasteurized, homogenized). And no, that is definitely not the most commonly purchased type of milk in Europe.

FYI, I do know for sure that the corect answer is not option b) ...

[freudling]

effgee:

You are ridiculous. No, you are the milk man. FYI I do know for sure the answer is the former.

GSixZero:

Why repeat most of what has already been said?

[freudling]

There is a hostel by London Bridge. Off season is 16 pounds per night and it is very nice and clean. Can't remember the name. I stayed there and it was the best location from my research. Grocery store across the street and liquor store. Has a roof top jacuzzi.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by freudling

effgee: a) You are ridiculous. b) No, you are the milk man. c) FYI I do know for sure the answer is the former. ...

a) Tell me something I don't know.
b) You do know what the average gf/wife thinks of the milk man, no? Btw, MilkmanDan is the resident milk man, not me. I'm the cable guy around here.
c) I assumed as much ... you did see the smilie at the bottom of my post, did you?

[TubaMuffins]

i saved a lot of money bu taking the bus instead of the trian most of the time. It was horrible sitting for 18 hours, but we ended up saving some money. It's going to be difficult for you to do Europe on a budget if you are planning on going in June.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by effgee

Dude, that must be for one of the following reasons:

1. You bought nothing but what in Germany for example, is called H-milk ("H" for "haltbar", literal translation = "durable", as in: pasteurized, homogenized). And no, that is definitely not the most commonly purchased type of milk in Europe.

Note that H-milk apparently actually goes bad a lot faster than regular milk - you just don't *notice* it.

It's ultra-pasteurized and completely devoid of any of the milk's native whatsits that make it turn sour, so it will go off without "telling" you about it.

[segovius]

I have a friend (fellow Mac freak) in my apartment block who rents out a room in Barcelona pretty cheap, coolest bit of town (imo). PM me if you are interested.

Could give you some tips about cheapest places if you come here.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Huh? What's yer beef with Ryaniar? I've got more trips with Ryanair under my belt than I care to remember, with no problems whatsoever.

Numerous. Suffice to say using them when on a budget trip through Europe with limited time is really stupid as they eat up both budget and time.

If he wants to go to Barcelona for instance he would land in Girona if he flew with Ryanair. 150 km, 2-3 hours by bus (realistic time) and €19 more for the bus. This adds at least 5 hours and €19 to the Ryanair ticket.

Add to that, Ryanair is known to cancel flights when there isn't enough people to make the trip worth it to them. You'll get your €s back and no trip. On a ten day journey that is something I would *not* recommend relying on.

If time has no value to you and you do not have to keep any appointments (such as a flight from Europe back to the USA) and you don't want any comforts on your plane such as a reclinable seat and you want to support a company with no unionized employees.. enjoy.

I'd never recommend them. Simply because as an "airline" they suck. As a bus company they'd be below average. I can't recommend them.

cheers

W-Y

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Randman

The trains are nice but don't try to do much otherwise you'll spend 90% of your time in transit and really won't get to experience Europe.

Wrong, absoloutly wrong.

Trains are the best way to travel through Europe because you get to see Europe while in transit. Trust me, I live here.

cheers

W-Y

[segovius]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Numerous. Suffice to say using them when on a budget trip through Europe with limited time is really stupid as they eat up both budget and time.

If he wants to go to Barcelona for instance he would land in Girona if he flew with Ryanair. 150 km, 2-3 hours by bus (realistic time) and €19 more for the bus. This adds at least 5 hours and €19 to the Ryanair ticket.

Add to that, Ryanair is known to cancel flights when there isn't enough people to make the trip worth it to them. You'll get your €s back and no trip. On a ten day journey that is something I would *not* recommend relying on.

If time has no value to you and you do not have to keep any appointments (such as a flight from Europe back to the USA) and you don't want any comforts on your plane such as a reclinable seat and you want to support a company with no unionized employees.. enjoy.

I'd never recommend them. Simply because as an "airline" they suck. As a bus company they'd be below average. I can't recommend them.

cheers

W-Y

Totally right. Don't touch them.

Easy Jet is a better bet imo (or from Germany: German Wings) and if you organize yourself (ie a month or so in advance) you can get cheap flights.

I regularly get ₤20 GBP one way to Barcelona from Luton and you are right in to the main BCN airport. From there it is a €3.50 rail ticket to the centre - or €20 taxi.

[moonmonkey]

Prague, Kracow, and Budapest, but wait till the summer.

leave London and paris till you have more cash.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Numerous. Suffice to say using them when on a budget trip through Europe with limited time is really stupid as they eat up both budget and time.

If he wants to go to Barcelona for instance he would land in Girona if he flew with Ryanair. 150 km, 2-3 hours by bus (realistic time) and €19 more for the bus. This adds at least 5 hours and €19 to the Ryanair ticket.

Add to that, Ryanair is known to cancel flights when there isn't enough people to make the trip worth it to them. You'll get your €s back and no trip. On a ten day journey that is something I would *not* recommend relying on.

If time has no value to you and you do not have to keep any appointments (such as a flight from Europe back to the USA) and you don't want any comforts on your plane such as a reclinable seat and you want to support a company with no unionized employees.. enjoy.

I'd never recommend them. Simply because as an "airline" they suck. As a bus company they'd be below average. I can't recommend them.

cheers

W-Y

Hmm, I have totally different experiences. For two years I used them to commute between London in the UK and Hamburg in Germany. Not a single cancelled flight, ever. Ryanair does NOT cancel flights because of low passenger numbers, that's a myth. Apart from that, I've never been on a Ryanair flight that wasn't nearly fully booked.

The seats in the planes I flew with are narrow but recline just like they do in any other airline. Food you pay for but hey, with the tickets costing what they do who cares.

No luggage got lost ever, flights were always on time.

Flights were available from $1.50 on my route, which is unbeatable. The bus ticket from the airport in Hamburg was $8.00, in London the Stanstead Express takes you to Liverpool Street in 45 minutes.

Personally I can't recommend them highly enough.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Tips:
* Use trains

dont use UK trains. Especially around London. Especially with a PowerBook.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Not a single cancelled flight, ever. Ryanair does NOT cancel flights because of low passenger numbers, that's a myth.

Sorry, but you are wrong. It is a fact.

Originally Posted by Mastrap

The seats in the planes I flew with are narrow but recline just like they do in any other airline.

Sorry, but again you are wrong. Their new interior layout has non-reclinable seats.

Originally Posted by Mastrap

No luggage got lost ever, flights were always on time.

Ryanair does not take care of your luggage. They hire 3rd party companies/airport rampers to do that, so it has nothing to do with them.

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Personally I can't recommend them highly enough.

Personally I can't recommend them at all. Take EasyJet or whatever really. Just not Ryanair. Most other LCCs fly for similar prices, with better equipment, better service, better routes, better airports and better management.

I'm a big aviation enthusiast and follow the world of aviation every day. I fly all over Europe and have used almost every major carrier in western Europe. Ryanair is the white-trash of the airlines and shouldn't really be called an airline. A glorified second rate bus company would be more apt. I have nothing good to say about them as a passenger. Sorry you like them.

cheers

W-Y

[freudling]

Weyland:

We get it, you don't like RyanAir. I personally have no problems with them. If deadlines are an issue, then perhaps flying with a larger airline would be prudent, but again, Weyland is crusading against them. RyanAir should be considered an option, specially since they speak english and are based out of the UK.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by freudling

Weyland:

We get it, you don't like RyanAir. I personally have no problems with them. If deadlines are an issue, then perhaps flying with a larger airline would be prudent, but again, Weyland is crusading against them. RyanAir should be considered an option, specially since they speak english and are based out of the UK.

Very amusing. Not recommending a particular airline is "crusading against them". Aren't you taking this a bit too personally? This is strictly business.

To reply your post:

Good that you personally have no problems with Ryanair and neither do I. However I think their service leaves a lot to be desired compared to everyone (!) else. So as a consumer I have problems with Ryanair.

As for flying a bigger airline if deadlines matter, well. Ryanair aren't exactly small and I do belive they were bragging about being the biggest airline in Europe only this fall (based on passengers transported in september - while BA was going through a strike). They are quite big but that doesn't help them much, quality wise. What you meant to say was "If deadlines are an issue, then perhaps flying with a responsible airline would be prudent..." I'm sure.

Ryanair should not be considered an option unless time is worthless to you, if you have no deadlines to meet and you feel all the extra hassle is worth it to you. If any of the above is important to you, I recommend some other airline.

Amazingly there are always one or two Ryanair fanatics about. They can't stop praising that company. All the rest fly with them grudgingly and then there is the group that doesn't fly Ryanair because Ryanair isn't very good. That is a large group as well.

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/ryan.htm
(an interesting read)

cheers

W-Y

[ort888]

I just got back from a 7 day trip to Paris. Even in 7 days we were unable to hit all of the main attractions. There is an almost unlimited supply of things to do there.

It is also very expensive. Everything is. Eating out in the city generally costs $60 to have a modest meal without drinks. Even Metro tickets are pricey.

It was a lot of fun, but I think it would be hard to do it for "cheap". Unless your definition of cheap is different then mine.

We spent about $150 a day on two people and we were trying to be somewhat frugal. This doesn't include airfare and hotel.

[Thilo Ettelt]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Hey everyone...I want to plan a trip to a few European destinations. I am leaving from Philadelphia and want to go to London, Paris, Bremen, Germany (meeting someone) maybe Spain (Barcelona) then back to Philadelphia. I don't mind sleeping on trains and traveling on the cheap any way possible. Any tips on saving money while in those cities? mostly Im concerned with sleeping which I dont care where since I will be out and about most of the time. I can eat like a mouse and want to take my PowerBook to communicate. Dont' know if its a good idea to lug a 17" PowerBook around Europe...lol

Any help is welcome. I can only go end of June, since I am a teacher, and have a few months to work with but I think 10 days is enough for me in Europe.

You will go to Bremen? I live in Bremen.


Sincerely,
Thilo

[I was David B.]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Well I am meeting someone in Northern Germany so i need to do that part of Germany. I am going to fly into Heathrow I figured...take the TVR to Paris, then to Germany by train...dunno..ughhh

Bremen is very special, not a highlight imho. Consider Hamburg, Berlin or Munich if you can.
Also London: very interesting but also very expensive and food is disgusting.

Trains in Germany are horribly expensive. For long distances try to find a cheap flight or go to www.mitfahrgelegenheit.de and find someone who takes you with him by car. This will cost only 20 Euros for 500 km (variable but a good estimate). I often take people with me because I frequently drive long distances. It is absolutely safe to do that in germany. You will meet nice people and have good chats.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Tips:

* Don't fly with Ryanair

Quoted for emphasis. Ryanair is teh crap. Just horrible.

I have no idea why some people need 7+ days in one city, it gets boring as hell. There really isn't that much to see in every city. Maybe it's my spoiled ass that has seen too much of the European cities but I couldn't imagine staying longer than 3 days in the same city. 10 days is plenty (I must admit that you do waste a lot of time travelling). I wouldn't try trains, especially not in France. Can't say too much about trains though since I rarely ever take a train. I do everything by car in Europe. As for eating: get yourself a few Michelin guides. Oh and I suggest taxis in Spain, they're relatively cheap. I'm not a subway person myself, I avoid it all costs.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Quoted for emphasis. Ryanair is teh crap. Just horrible.

Hey some of you guys seem to hate it, but from Paris they were a very nice, cheap way to get to say, Rome or Dublin or Barcelona. Flown them a bunch when the idea of paying hundreds for a plane or spending the night in a train didn't appeal. However the calling the Beauvais airport Paris Beauvais is big load of crap.

Never had the slightest problem. Sure they're no frills and what not, but jeez, whaddya expect from your cheap, short flights anyways?

But Europe in ten days? Good luck buddy.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by paul w

Hey some of you guys seem to hate it, but from Paris they were a very nice, cheap way to get to say, Rome or Dublin or Barcelona.

There are alternative LCCs and they don't suck as much. Even AirFrance offers tickets to Rome (from CDG) for €100 (that's a return ticket without taxes). Aer Lingus offers damn cheap fares betwen Paris (CDG) and Dublin (from €28 both ways w/o taxes) and between Paris and Barcelona.. sheesh. There your options are immense and all better than Ryanair. All from CGD, and airport that Ryanair doesn't use. Point being there are a lot of better options than Ryanair, with similar or same prices and all depart from an airport actually located *in* Paris. I just don't see why anyone would go out of his/her way to choose Ryanair. But hey, whatever. I just wouldn't recommend it.

Originally Posted by paul w

Flown them a bunch when the idea of paying hundreds for a plane or spending the night in a train didn't appeal. However the calling the Beauvais airport Paris Beauvais is big load of crap.

True, true. Agree with the above.

Originally Posted by paul w

Never had the slightest problem. Sure they're no frills and what not, but jeez, whaddya expect from your cheap, short flights anyways?

It is not about the frills, I don't think many airlines offer any frills in economy any more (at least generally) but it is about actual convenience over perceived convenience.

Originally Posted by paul w

But Europe in ten days? Good luck buddy.

Ya, good luck man. You're gonna need it.. Hope you enjoy your trip though. Depends what you're after I reckon.

cheers

W-Y

[effgee]

Ok, here's another thought ...

Why does it always have to be the clichés "London", "Paris", "Rome"? Not that those aren't nice but as others have already stated - you need a helluva lot of time to fully explore each of those places. Here's my suggestion for a two week trip:

• Keep your number of destinations to a reasonable limit (I'd say three or four at most)
• Stay in reasonably priced B&B's or even youth hostels (if you don't mind 'em)
• Skip the trains for longer distances, fly whenever you can (fast & cheap)
  bah, artificial spacing
• Day 1: Arrive in London, most flights get in during the morning hours, you'll be pooped but will still have time to see a little something after checking in to your hotel/B&B/whatever.
• Day 1-4: London; take in the major sights
• Day 4: Flight to Oslo (prices starting at £30/$53)
• Day 4-6: Oslo
• Day 6: Ferry Oslo - Denmark, train to Copenhagen
• Day 6, 7: Copenhagen (fabulous town, Oisin will show you around)
• Day 8: Train to Bremen
• Day 8-10: Goof off with friends in Bremen
• Day 11: Flight from Hamburg back to London
• Day 11-13: More sights in London
• Day 14: Back home to Philly (boy, I miss Spruce street - used to live there :-) )

My 0.02 Danish Krøner ...



(edit: another idea might be: London -> Glasgow -> (if you have the time: ) Amsterdam -> Bremen -> London -> home)

[Weyland-Yutani]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4476568.stm

"Ryanair cancels the fewest flights in Europe, with 99.4% of our flights operating to schedule."

U-huh. Problem is other carriers can redirect you instead of being stuck out in nowhere when your flight happens to be cancelled.

Well, you get what you pay for and when you pay for Ryanair you sometimes get even less. This is why I would not recommend Ryanair to anyone unless that person has more time than money and good sense.

cheers

W-Y

[Weyland-Yutani]

The story of the Hamburg castaways..

EXTERNAL NEWS
Tuesday 29 November 2005
RYANAIR "STRAYS" ARRIVE HOME

A group of Scots have arrived home following a 36-hour rail and road journey across Europe, after a flight with the budget carrier from Hamburg-Lubeck was cancelled.

The 38-strong church group refused to wait until Thursday for a flight and so accepted their �5 refund and made their own arrangements for the trip home.

From Lubeck, they got a bus to the centre of Hamburg. They then boarded a train to Brussels where they transferred to the Eurostar.

This took the group as far as Euston, where they then boarded a Virgin train bound for Glasgow.

Hugh McGarey, a member of the party, told the Herald: "Ryanair just left us like stray dogs to run about. It was terrible the way they treated us. I'll never fly with that airline again."

David Loy, whose 72-year-old mother was also left stranded, shared Mr McGarey's views.

He said: "It is an absolute disgrace what these people have been put through."

cheers

W-Y

[ghporter]

I know LIBRARIES that 10 days isn't enough for... If you are going to visit, visit long enough to see something and enjoy your stay; otherwise you may as well just fly from one airport to another and call that a European vacation.

[AppleOptionFour]

If you are looking at hostels, stay in a nice hotel at least once. I recommend the last night you are there. Makes the flight home much better.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by paul w

Hey some of you guys seem to hate it, but from Paris they were a very nice, cheap way to get to say, Rome or Dublin or Barcelona. Flown them a bunch when the idea of paying hundreds for a plane or spending the night in a train didn't appeal. However the calling the Beauvais airport Paris Beauvais is big load of crap.

Same thing with calling Lübeck "Hamburg-Lübeck". They're 100km apart! In different federal states! (While Hamburg has its own international airport.)

[ambush]

Find friends and stay at their house. Otherwise, the hotels cost a LOT.

If you can't, find "auberges de jeunesse"....

[VoicesInMyHead]

There is absolutely no way that you´ll be able to visit all the places you said in 10 days. No way. If you actually do that, it´ll be basically hopping from airport to airport and that´s it. It will be a waste of money. I strongly recommend you to pick two cities and travel by plane between them. Otherwise, you just won´t get your money´s worth. It´s better to spend a bit more and actually get to know the places.

[Trygve]

10 days is not nearly enough for what you want. Trains are great but the distances take time to cover even on high-speed tracks... you'll be eating into your time there. My suggestions would be to concentrate on a smaller area. You said you wanted to be in Bremen to visit friends, so how about Munich, Prague and Bremen, or Prague, Berlin and Bremen?

Prague is quite inexpensive compared to places further west and there is lots to see and do for a few days. From prague to Berlin is easy as there are direct trains and you can go overnight if you like. Trying to do London Paris and Barcelona in 10 days is just too hopeful.

[Dennis002]

Come to Amsterdam, get stoned for 10 days and fly back