[neal1973]

I'm about to take ownership of my first mac - a new 15" PB.

I will be using it for photographic editing so intend to get an external display - either 20" or 23".

The latest Apple Cinema displays are beautiful and great for photography as you can view the images without degradation from any angle, which I believe is new technology for LCD screens. However, they are very pricey.

What are the differences between the latest cinema displays and the previous versions, which I think are still very nice-looking? Is it just an updated design, is it improved resolution, or are there other technology improvements? There seems to be some good value to be had on eBay with used Apple Cinema Displays if they are still up to the job for an amateur photographer.

Alternatively, are there any good (i.e. cheaper) non-Apple brands I should consider? (e.g. Formac, etc)

Many thanks in advance for any help, advice or general thoughts you can give.

Cheers, Neal.

[mduell]

The latest revision have aluminum cases instead of plastic, integrated Firewire hubs, and the connectors are "normal" DVI with seperate leads for USB/FW/power instead of ADC (Apple's custom connector for DVI, USB, and power combined, which would require a $100 adapter to work with your PowerBook). No change to resolution.

As for other displays, look at Dell. They have 20" and 24" HD displays for significantly lower prices. Their screens have higher brightness, higher contrast ratios, more input options, more flexible stands, and are usually 30-50% less money. The 20" uses a newer revision of the same panel that Apple uses, and the 24" has a built in media card reader.

[itguy05]

I have the same thing - 15" PB and just picked up the 20" Apple display. It's a great display and works perfectly with the Powerbook. It's not that much more expensive than the other options - the only thing that makes it a deal are the various coupons that some use to get it cheap. But you get just that - a cheap display.

Anandtech reviewed the Apple vs Dell and, IIRC they concluded the Apple had better colors and other display quality while the Dell had better connection options.

The disadvantages of Dell:
* It's Dell - the company known for cheap junky computers. (being in IT, I see this firsthand)
* It's supposedly retana burning bright and no options to lower brightness on Macs.
* No support if you have issues with your Mac.

That being said, look at BenQ, Formac, and there's a 20" Sceptre at Costco that is at an attractive price.

However, I'm estatic about the 20" Apple - it displays beautiful images and works perfectly with my PB. If I have any issues, I have Apple backing me up and working with me. That piece of mind is worth the price.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by itguy05

I have the same thing - 15" PB and just picked up the 20" Apple display. It's a great display and works perfectly with the Powerbook. It's not that much more expensive than the other options - the only thing that makes it a deal are the various coupons that some use to get it cheap. But you get just that - a cheap display.

With the usual weekly deals the Dell is half the price of the ACD.

Originally Posted by itguy05

Anandtech reviewed the Apple vs Dell and, IIRC they concluded the Apple had better colors and other display quality while the Dell had better connection options.

I guess you don't recall correctly. Here are a few snippets from their review:
The formula for monitor design seems to have been perfected at Dell...
The acrylic bezels on the sides of the Apple Cinema displays seem extremely fragile, and we actually put a hairline crack in our bezel during the course of the evaluation.
The more muted colors of the Cinema display were slightly off according to OptiCal, and we needed to correct the curves via software.
Both displays demonstrated accurate sharpness, although we noticed that the slightly duller Apple display had more of a “washed out” look to it in comparison to the Dell 2005FPW.
Measuring how far these intensities were from the extremes, we found the Dell to be just slightly ahead of the Apple with this respect [refering to washout].
The Dell 2005FPW won us over ... as a standard that all other monitors must adhere to for excellent ratings in our future reviews...
The UltraSharp 2005FPW is the display that we have been waiting for...

I'll let the OP read the rest.

Originally Posted by itguy05

The disadvantages of Dell:
* It's Dell - the company known for cheap junky computers. (being in IT, I see this firsthand)

Would that be the same Dell whose reliablity is statistically indifferent from Apples in ConsumerReports annual reviews? Who hasn't had problems like the widely reported pink cast that the 23" AlCDs had (or is that have)?

Originally Posted by itguy05

* It's supposedly retana burning bright and no options to lower brightness on Macs.

You can adjust the brightness with the on screen controls.

Originally Posted by itguy05

* No support if you have issues with your Mac.

Dell will support the display regardless of what you're connecting it to. Could be a VCR via S-video, a home movie camera via composite, a 5 year old PC via VGA, or a brand new Mac via DVI. If your Mac is having issues (rather than the display), you should be talking to Apple, not Dell.

Seriously, enough of the FUD.

Oh and looking at that Anandtech review reminded me: the Dell comes with a 3 year warranty, standard (you can get a 4 or 5 year warranty for ~$25 per additional year). The ACD comes with a 1 year warranty (but only 90 days of phone support), and you can't even buy an extended warranty unless you buy it with a PowerMac or PowerBook at the same time.

[itguy05]

Originally Posted by mduell

With the usual weekly deals the Dell is half the price of the ACD.

That's nice. Still not worth it to stare at a Dell logo all day - I'd rather get the 20" Sceptre @ Costco for $399.

The acrylic bezels on the sides of the Apple Cinema displays seem extremely fragile, and we actually put a hairline crack in our bezel during the course of the evaluation.

After they TOOK THE DISPLAY APART.... That's not really a fair comparison.

The more muted colors of the Cinema display were slightly off according to OptiCal, and we needed to correct the curves via software.
Both displays demonstrated accurate sharpness, although we noticed that the slightly duller Apple display had more of a “washed out” look to it in comparison to the Dell 2005FPW.

Guess you didn't read this page:
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/sh...px?i=2400&p=10

Concering the image "quality" of the Dell....

Guess you also didn't read the conclusion:
"The Cinema display had no problem producing extraordinary results in all of our benchmarks."

Would that be the same Dell whose reliablity is statistically indifferent from Apples in ConsumerReports annual reviews?

But Apple is sill #1. And it's the same Dell that has consistently been slipping in reliability ratings from PC Magazine and other sources. Being in IT for many, many years, you don't buy Dell if you expect reliability and quality. You buy Dell because it's cheap. And that's what you get.

Who hasn't had problems like the widely reported pink cast that the 23" AlCDs had (or is that have)?

We're talking 20", not 23". The 20" has been relatively trouble free.

You can adjust the brightness with the on screen controls.

And some still find it retana burning bright. I love the seamless integration of the ACD with my PB - touch the power button on the display, and the computer goes to sleep. Touch the brightness on the monitor and the OSD displays.

Dell will support the display regardless of what you're connecting it to. Could be a VCR via S-video, a home movie camera via composite, a 5 year old PC via VGA, or a brand new Mac via DVI. If your Mac is having issues (rather than the display), you should be talking to Apple, not Dell.

I'm sure when you talk to the Dell support guy in India they will hear "I'm connecting to my Mac" and say, "We don't support them". It has happened with some of their printers that (barely) support Macs.

Seriously, enough of the FUD.

None here, thanks. You should examine your FUD before saying this.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by itguy05

Guess you didn't read this page:
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/sh...px?i=2400&p=10

Concering the image "quality" of the Dell....

Indeed I did read the entire report. They said people had complained about the Dell, but they couldn't duplicate the complaints.

Originally Posted by itguy05

Guess you also didn't read the conclusion:
"The Cinema display had no problem producing extraordinary results in all of our benchmarks."

I don't dispute that conclusion. The snippet I pasted refered to the Cinema displays out-of-the-box calibration, and the snipped also noted that it could be corrected in software.

Originally Posted by itguy05

But Apple is sill #1. And it's the same Dell that has consistently been slipping in reliability ratings from PC Magazine and other sources. Being in IT for many, many years, you don't buy Dell if you expect reliability and quality. You buy Dell because it's cheap. And that's what you get.

We're talking 20", not 23". The 20" has been relatively trouble free.

My comment about the 23" was refering to the overall brand quality, since you had just been complaining about the lack of quality you perceive in Dells brand.

Originally Posted by itguy05

I'm sure when you talk to the Dell support guy in India they will hear "I'm connecting to my Mac" and say, "We don't support them". It has happened with some of their printers that (barely) support Macs.

Ooh, a "Hindu Bob" epithet! (BTW, Dell has moved much of their support back to the USA; I've had no one but Americans answer the phone lately.)
Can you point to any sources stating that Dell will not support the screen when you connect it to a Mac?

Originally Posted by itguy05

None here, thanks. You should examine your FUD before saying this.

There is no FUD in my post. Your post, on other hand, is nothing but:
Anandtech reviewed the Apple vs Dell and, IIRC they concluded the Apple had better colors and other display quality while the Dell had better connection options. FUD
* It's Dell - the company known for cheap junky computers. (being in IT, I see this firsthand) FUD
* It's supposedly retana burning bright and no options to lower brightness on Macs. FUD
* No support if you have issues with your Mac. FUD

All of those comments are designed to inspire Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt without a factual basis.

[itguy05]

Originally Posted by mduell

Indeed I did read the entire report. They said people had complained about the Dell, but they couldn't duplicate the complaints.

Because they noted Dell sent them a "Well built unit".... Or a ringer.

My comment about the 23" was refering to the overall brand quality, since you had just been complaining about the lack of quality you perceive in Dells brand.

Dell = Lack of quality. Nothing perceptual about that. They are slipping. I've seen it over many years dealing with all manufacturers.

Ooh, a "Hindu Bob" epithet! (BTW, Dell has moved much of their support back to the USA; I've had no one but Americans answer the phone lately.)

Are you a corporate customer? They moved corporate support back to the USA. Consumers are still stuck calling 1/2 way around the world.

Can you point to any sources stating that Dell will not support the screen when you connect it to a Mac?

Call 'em up and ask.

All of those comments are designed to inspire Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt without a factual basis.

Not at all.

[hickey]

so lets get back to the issue at hand here. Im also looking into getting an external display for my pbook, and Im probably going to get a 20 incher. Now as for Apple vs. Dell, depending on how much cash I have after winter break I'll try and spring for the apple cinema display. Its aesthestics are much nicer, and cnet.com rated slightly better than the dell 2005fpw. But if I dont get as much money as I was hoping for this christmas, I'll opt for the dell. Both are good displays, and both will work great for what your going to be doing. Either wya, Im sure youll be happy with new screen.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by itguy05

Because they noted Dell sent them a "Well built unit".... Or a ringer.

And I guess the 2nd unit they got (with an earlier build date, which you linked too) was also rigged for their test?

Originally Posted by itguy05

Are you a corporate customer? They moved corporate support back to the USA. Consumers are still stuck calling 1/2 way around the world.

I've purchased from both the Home/Home Office and Small Business stores (whichever one has a better deal at the time). Either way I call the same support number and get people who sound like they're from the southern part of the US.

Originally Posted by itguy05

Call 'em up and ask.

Thank you for confirming that you cannot provide any sources.

edit: Link to thread about 20" AlCD white spots.