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jonasmac · Jan 23, 2006, 02:07 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260122013

81 points...good enough for 2nd highest point tally in NBA History. Right behind Wilt's 100. The man is on a tear.

Is he the 2nd coming of MJ or the 1st coming of Kobe? I don't think there has been a player in recent times who polarizes the NBA's fan base quite like Kobe does. You either hate him (I mean REALLY hate him) or you are in awe and hoping to watch history in the making.

Me, I don't care for the person too much, but I'm sure glad he's on the Lakers! Go LA!

macintologist · Jan 23, 2006, 02:15 AM

Bryant < Jordan

Cubeoid · Jan 23, 2006, 02:22 AM

Holy Crap! 81 points, that's something! Usually a team scores that. Well done Kobe.. torrent of game anyone?

..i'd like to see such a display.

Railroader · Jan 23, 2006, 02:25 AM

He's a good(awesome) player.

Unfortunately he handles publicity like he deserves it. Part of Michael Jordan's appeal was that he was reserved. He handled the press well and was humble.

Bryant is too outspoken in the wrong areas.

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 02:28 AM

Holy sh!t. Well so much for the argument he should have pushed when he had 61 in 3.

MrForgetable · Jan 23, 2006, 02:52 AM

I think most people out of Los Angeles hate him.

People in Los Angeles tolerate him because he is one of the premier players in the league, however selfish he may be.

I personally think he really does try to get his teammates involved (sometimes, at least), but sometimes none of his teammates can deliver, so he HAS to carry the team or else they will get obliterated. Then, he could try and make them better, but he is a very reserved (for himself, at least) person, pretty selfish in that respect, but I'm like that too so I can understand how he feels on a much, much smaller extent.

Still, 81 points. Boggles the mind.

SShoot3r · Jan 23, 2006, 03:22 AM

He is good, but is horrible playing together with the team.

Artful Dodger · Jan 23, 2006, 04:05 AM

Amazing solo perfomance by Kobe. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think you can build a championship team around him. Jordan is perched on a level way above. But if I was a coach and had to build a team around one person it would be Magic johnson.

alphasubzero949 · Jan 23, 2006, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by SShoot3r

He is good, but is horrible playing together with the team.

Agreed.

Even after this feat, he still isn't getting a championship ring this year.

nredman · Jan 23, 2006, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by SShoot3r

He is good, but is horrible playing together with the team.

didn't he play well as a team when shaq was there?

rickey939 · Jan 23, 2006, 08:38 AM

Points whore.®

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 09:18 AM

Now that I saw the highlights, nice to see my Raptors blow a 14 point halftime lead in the process of having him tag the second most points in NBA history on them.

Now here's a thought: Kobe's parallels to Jordan at this stage (young, crap team, big numbers) make wonder if he might not be able to beat Jordan's championshio numbers before its all said and done. Kobe should be good for another 10 years, he's got a head start with 3 already, and let's not forget that Jordan sat 2 years during his golden time.

There's more history that remains to be made.

Cubeoid · Jan 23, 2006, 09:25 AM

hmmm.. he just doesn't excite as much as Jordan, I guess no one will. rickey939, your view on this...

starman · Jan 23, 2006, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by macintologist

Bryant < Jordan

81 < 69?

Cody Dawg · Jan 23, 2006, 09:39 AM

Sorry to rain on your little parade...

Funny how everyone soon forgets that he raped a girl, cheated on his wife, lied, and is just a loser in the morality department.

He cannot be compared to Michael Jordan for those reasons alone.

Personally, Shaquille O'Neal is my favorite. Faithful to his wife, donates his time to the Miami Police Department (just became a common police officer), and just a good guy.

Jordan and O'Neal are light years beyond that loser called Kobe Bryant.

Agasthya · Jan 23, 2006, 09:54 AM

He did it shooting .600 from the field too. Unreal.

Cody Dawg · Jan 23, 2006, 10:09 AM

I will admit that it IS amazing that he's that good at the game.

But I still don't like him.

rickey939 · Jan 23, 2006, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by macintologist

Bryant < Jordan < Bird < Oscar Robertson

Fixed by r939.®

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Funny how everyone soon forgets that he raped a girl

Pretty sure it was consensual.

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

He cannot be compared to Michael Jordan for those reasons alone.

He'd have to start gambling on games too, I guess.

Oh yeah, and all that is inconsequential because it has NOTHING to do with basketball.

d4nth3m4n · Jan 23, 2006, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

He's a good(awesome) player.

Unfortunately he handles publicity like he deserves it. Part of Michael Jordan's appeal was that he was reserved. He handled the press well and was humble.

Bryant is too outspoken in the wrong areas.

nice.

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Agasthya

He did it shooting .600 from the field too. Unreal.

Yeah I think he had more free throw attempts in the Dallas game. Makes sense too, since he'd need to stop the clock to outscore them himself.

Originally Posted by rickey939

Fixed by r939.®

I really wish I'd been around to watch The Big-O play. To average triple-double for a season is as much as of an accomplishment as scoring 100 to me.

Sad thing is LeBron's got the ability too, but I don't think he has the opportunity.

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 10:26 AM

No one has the mass appeal (or smile) of Jordan. Magic Johnson was the best thing before that.

Right now I think Dwyane Wade is best chance they have.

Eug Wanker · Jan 23, 2006, 10:30 AM

Poor Toronto.

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 10:34 AM

Yeah, I know. You never want your team to go down in infamy for that reason.

Shaddim · Jan 23, 2006, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Sorry to rain on your little parade...

Funny how everyone soon forgets that he raped a girl,

with all due respect Cody, 5 minutes after the incident she was bee-bopping through the lobby, looking like nothing in the world was wrong (the desk clerk's own testimony). She had sex with him, and like so many other chicks in her position, decided to try and cash in on it.

This is the bottom line. What happened to the criminal trial? Was there a civil trial afterward? What were the results of the civil trial?

No, I don't like Kobe, he's a scum bag... but a rapist? Not in that situation.

Agasthya · Jan 23, 2006, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Poor Toronto.

Looks like the Raps are taking defensive lessons from the Leafs

GO SENS GO

DarwinX · Jan 23, 2006, 10:45 AM

None of us will know the truth, not in this lifetime at least.

That said I am not a Kobe fan by any means. This effort was quite impressive, and so where the other ones this year. However, to put MJ and Kobe in the same sentence in a greatness comparison? Give me a break. Kobe has to prove he can win one without Shaq before I will even let that thought enter my mind. Yes I realize the help Jordan had from the likes of Pippin, but the point is Jordan was the greater player of the equation. In my mind, at the time Shaq was greater than Kobe.

In my mind, until Kobe can prove that, he's just another flashy player who can achieve great individual success, which truly doesn't matter in a TEAM sport.

My 2 cents.

brapper · Jan 23, 2006, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Sorry to rain on your little parade...

Funny how everyone soon forgets that he raped a girl, cheated on his wife, lied, and is just a loser in the morality department.

He cannot be compared to Michael Jordan for those reasons alone.

Personally, Shaquille O'Neal is my favorite. Faithful to his wife, donates his time to the Miami Police Department (just became a common police officer), and just a good guy.

Jordan and O'Neal are light years beyond that loser called Kobe Bryant.

I'm fairly certain that Jordan admitted to cheating on his wife a couple years ago....not 100% on that tho. Maybe someone else feels like digging it up.

But I hate Kobe. Saying that he has tried to make his teamates better by passing to them, but that in the end he has to do it himself, is bullshit. Truly great players will find a way of raising the game of all the players around them and will find a way of getting them the ball in opportunities to actually do something with it.

wallinbl · Jan 23, 2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by starman

81 < 69?

No, but Kobe < Jordan. Jordan made his teammates better. Kobe doesn't. It's a team game, so a guy that is phenomenal individually AND makes his teammates better is a greater asset.

Kobe has tremendous skills, but unfortunately, he's too much of a jerk both on an off the court. You put Kobe and Shaq on the same team and they fight and hate each other? That's pathetic. Jordan would have been thrilled to have Shaq instead of the three man fouling rotation the Bulls had at center.

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 11:36 AM

Let's not forget about the size of Jordan's ego.

wallinbl · Jan 23, 2006, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Oh yeah, and all that is inconsequential because it has NOTHING to do with basketball.

Smack hoes, do drugs, get in fights, bribe cops, steal stuff, kill people, commit sexual assault, do what you need to do to be your gangsta self!* As long as you got tha skillz, we don't care what you do!

*Not all of these apply directly to Kobe Bryant, but they are all covered by recent college/pro athletes that are revered for their talents. We pay these people money to entertain us. It would be reasonable to tell them that we're not interested in paying them anymore if they're going to use their money and fame to avoid the consequences of their actions.

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 11:42 AM

I didn't say I don't care what he does. I said what he does has no impact on his accomplishments on the court. I may think he's a terrible person, but that doesn't make him a terrible basketball player.

wallinbl · Jan 23, 2006, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

I didn't say I don't care what he does. I said what he does has no impact on his accomplishments on the court. I may think he's a terrible person, but that doesn't make him a terrible basketball player.

I think some of those things ought to mean you don't play basketball anymore. I'm not saying Kobe has crossed that line, but I will say that behavior is relevant.

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 11:54 AM

Well I'm not saying you should be able to continue to play basketball if you get convicted of something. I'm just saying if you were the best player the game has ever known, even if you get convicted it doesn't factor on your skills. They're mutually exclusive.

rickey939 · Jan 23, 2006, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Poor Toronto.

What is weird is that I believe the Raptors were up by 16+ at one point in the 1st Half...ehh.

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 12:01 PM

14 actually. I'm quite depressed. I believe he outscored them himself in the second half, or close to it.

Edit: Bryant scored 55 pts in the second half, Toronto 41.

olePigeon · Jan 23, 2006, 03:43 PM

Larry Bird is/was my favorite alltime basketball player. Kinda slow on the court, but he was a brick. **** talkin' white guy who could dunk and shoot over the best of them. He was a great team player. Kinda like Magic Johnson with crazy-ass no look passes like he has 360 degree vision.

That was a huge difference between the "Dream Team" of the late 80s and the "Dream Team" that got its ass handed to them by Argentina. Team work, guys.

I gave up on basketball after Bird left. It's just crap. When the Sharks formed, it was Hockey for me.

Oh, and Canterburry for Rugby. God they suck, but I love rootin' for the underdog.

New Zealand is a hoot to watch, especially that war dance or whatever they do before each game. Cool.

Dakar · Jan 23, 2006, 03:51 PM

Its difficult to imagine anymore dynasties being born in this me first environment. Too many players either need to be paid, played, or both. You can see the new tendency: Washed up or aging stars who have earned their fame and money submitting to lesser roles in the lackluster pursuit of a championship (i.e., Malone, Payton, Finley, & Van Exel).

Jawbone54 · Jan 23, 2006, 04:11 PM

olePigeon, I'm with you.

Larry Bird was great because Larry Bird was a winner. He carried the Celtics on his back. He always asked for the ball in the clutch, almost always delivered, and did it all as a true leader. There was no doubt about it; the Celtics were HIS team. Same thing with Magic. James Worthy might have scored more points, but the Lakers revolved around Magic. That was the essence of their greatness.

There will likely never be a rivalry in basketball again like the Celtics and Lakers rivalry of the 80's. Jordan was great to watch, and was the best ever, but he didn't have that arch nemesis. Magic, then Drexler, then Barkley, then Shawn Kemp (dies laughing), then Karl Malone and John Stockton. Jordan mowed them down, but did you really CARE about those games as much as you cared about the Lakers/Celtics? Of course not.

I've completely lost interest in pro basketball. I hate the way that it's become a very selfish game, revolving around multi-millionaires who spend more money in 3 months that I will during my entire life. They behave like children who have yet to learn how to share, much like my 1 year old nephew. It's becoming disgusting. At least Magic, Larry, and Michael handled themselves with class and dignity. And let's not forget Dr. J, George Gervin, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Wilt Chamberlain, and all of the other greats who acted as men. They used to lead their teams like a World War II general. Now teams are operated like gangs.

Back to the original topic...

There's no denying that Kobe is a great player, but he has to win with the Laker WITHOUT Shaq before I'd consider him a great leader. Sure, Kobe seems very selfish on the court, but let's remember that Jordan was also very selfish. It's just that Jordan had that killer instinct in the playoffs that Kobe needs to be able to put on display, if it is indeed there. If Kobe can lead his team past the rest of the great Western Conference, then we'll talk.

By the way...THE LAKERS ARE IN 7TH PLACE IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE!

angelmb · Jan 23, 2006, 05:11 PM

Larry Legend !

teknopimp · Jan 23, 2006, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Funny how everyone soon forgets that he allegedly raped a girl...

fixed.

thunderous_funker · Jan 23, 2006, 06:04 PM

Even if it becomes remembered as the greatest single game performance ever (and some are calling it that) it doesn't make Kobe the greatest player ever.

He's arguably a greater pure scorer than Jordan (Mike didn't shoot 3's until much later in his career), but I think most agree that Mike's greatness was more than his ability to score points. Kobe has yet to develope some of those other skills. He may in time, but he hasn't yet.

jonasmac · Jan 23, 2006, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Sorry to rain on your little parade...

Funny how everyone soon forgets that he raped a girl, cheated on his wife, lied, and is just a loser in the morality department.

He cannot be compared to Michael Jordan for those reasons alone.

Personally, Shaquille O'Neal is my favorite. Faithful to his wife, donates his time to the Miami Police Department (just became a common police officer), and just a good guy.

Jordan and O'Neal are light years beyond that loser called Kobe Bryant.

Allegedly raped.

Cody, everyone has their vices. Jordan's is gambling and his well-documented GINORMOUS ego. Shaq's got all kinds of vices too. Like greediness....demanding a $100 million 3-year extension from the Lakers and screaming profanities at Jerry Buss "Now will you pay me?" while running down court in a PREASEASON Game.

I'd venture to say that none of these NBA ballers are saints.

ambush · Jan 23, 2006, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

He's a good(awesome) player.

Unfortunately he handles publicity like he deserves it. Part of Michael Jordan's appeal was that he was reserved. He handled the press well and was humble.

Bryant is too outspoken in the wrong areas.

silent black people...

jonasmac · Jan 23, 2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

olePigeon, I'm with you.

Larry Bird was great because Larry Bird was a winner. He carried the Celtics on his back. He always asked for the ball in the clutch, almost always delivered, and did it all as a true leader. There was no doubt about it; the Celtics were HIS team. Same thing with Magic. James Worthy might have scored more points, but the Lakers revolved around Magic. That was the essence of their greatness.

There will likely never be a rivalry in basketball again like the Celtics and Lakers rivalry of the 80's. Jordan was great to watch, and was the best ever, but he didn't have that arch nemesis. Magic, then Drexler, then Barkley, then Shawn Kemp (dies laughing), then Karl Malone and John Stockton. Jordan mowed them down, but did you really CARE about those games as much as you cared about the Lakers/Celtics? Of course not.

I've completely lost interest in pro basketball. I hate the way that it's become a very selfish game, revolving around multi-millionaires who spend more money in 3 months that I will during my entire life. They behave like children who have yet to learn how to share, much like my 1 year old nephew. It's becoming disgusting. At least Magic, Larry, and Michael handled themselves with class and dignity. And let's not forget Dr. J, George Gervin, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Wilt Chamberlain, and all of the other greats who acted as men. They used to lead their teams like a World War II general. Now teams are operated like gangs.

Back to the original topic...

There's no denying that Kobe is a great player, but he has to win with the Laker WITHOUT Shaq before I'd consider him a great leader. Sure, Kobe seems very selfish on the court, but let's remember that Jordan was also very selfish. It's just that Jordan had that killer instinct in the playoffs that Kobe needs to be able to put on display, if it is indeed there. If Kobe can lead his team past the rest of the great Western Conference, then we'll talk.

By the way...THE LAKERS ARE IN 7TH PLACE IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE!

I think Kobe has proven his killer instinct, whether it's playoffs or regular season, or the Finals. Kobe still has to reach Jordan's level as a smart basketball player who doesn't force the issue until he needs to. Kobe's got the abilities, it's just knowing when to make the pass and when to shoot. He forces things a little much.

81pts? Crazy.

Albert Pujols · Jan 23, 2006, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by rickey939

Points whore.®

Railroader · Jan 24, 2006, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by ambush

silent black people...

Huh?!?!

Are you racist? Are you implying that you believe that black people should be silent?

Very pathetic of you to believe that.

Railroader · Jan 24, 2006, 02:11 AM

Let's get back to the amazing points display Bryant had.

It still boggles my mind. 81 points.

81.

Wow.

I'd like to see the assist numbers for the rest of the team in that game.

exca1ibur · Jan 24, 2006, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by jonasmac

I think Kobe has proven his killer instinct, whether it's playoffs or regular season, or the Finals. Kobe still has to reach Jordan's level as a smart basketball player who doesn't force the issue until he needs to. Kobe's got the abilities, it's just knowing when to make the pass and when to shoot. He forces things a little much.

81pts? Crazy.

Kobe is a great player the instinct and ability are there but the missing piece in comparision to Jordan, Magic and Bird is leadership. These other guys knew how to LEAD a team along with their talent. That is what gave them the extra in their game. Jordan was like Kobe his first few years in the NBA and Chicago wasn't sh*t (kinda like the Lakers are now). Once he got other players around him and learned to lead he took the next step. Look back at all the greats with championships. Leadership is what they all have in common along with the talent. When Kobe was winning with LA it was Shaq that was the one showing the leadership on the team. Now that he's had to step up as leader, he hasn't been able to step up so far and lead. (Not that they have decent players). As a leader you have to get everyone on the same page and help THEM get better as well. You can't go out and drop 81 every game, and expect to go far.

jonasmac · Jan 24, 2006, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

Kobe is a great player the instinct and ability are there but the missing piece in comparision to Jordan, Magic and Bird is leadership. These other guys knew how to LEAD a team along with their talent. That is what gave them the extra in their game. Jordan was like Kobe his first few years in the NBA and Chicago wasn't sh*t (kinda like the Lakers are now). Once he got other players around him and learned to lead he took the next step. Look back at all the greats with championships. Leadership is what they all have in common along with the talent. When Kobe was winning with LA it was Shaq that was the one showing the leadership on the team. Now that he's had to step up as leader, he hasn't been able to step up so far and lead. (Not that they have decent players). As a leader you have to get everyone on the same page and help THEM get better as well. You can't go out and drop 81 every game, and expect to go far.

I can see that. Nice perspective.