[GetSome681]

Sounds retarded...but spring break in the bahamas is quickly approaching and just starting to use iMovie and FCP 3 weeks ago, I feel the need for a digital camcorder to remember this debacle to be...I'm looking at dropping 1000 bones on something, and I don't know too much about it all, so maybe you guys have some good recommendations? Thanks.

[jcarr]

Aviod Digital8. Get a MiniDV camcorder.

Stick with Sony or Canon.

Try to find something with analog input as well as output. This will allow you to capture any old VHS stuff you may have.

[ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: jcarr ]

[GetSome681]

Yeah I was curious about the Digital8 vs MiniDV thing as it seems the Digital8 is much cheaper. Any else important decisions?

[rcfuzz]

Originally posted by jcarr:
<STRONG>Aviod Digital8. Get a MiniDV camcorder.

Stick with Sony or Canon.

Try to find something with analog input as well as output. This will allow you to capture any old VHS stuff you may have.

[ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: jcarr ]</STRONG>

What's wrong with Digital8?

[GK]

- digital 8 is dying
- get a sony DV ( I have dcr-pc110, ~1600, awesome picture, small, very high resolution, great colors)

[mitchell_pgh]

I have a Digital 8, cheap, does a good job... Remember, I'm not spending $1000+ for a thing that I take to spring brake. Get something small and afordable. People like to walk off with them...

[danbrew]

Digital8 is not DV quality. There is a ton of misinformation out there about this, but the Digital8 uses a camera capable of DV quality, but then dumbs it down onto a Hi8 tape -- in a digital format. I don't recall the exact specifications, but the quality of the Digital8 tape is less than that of the DV tape.

From a reality perspective, you may never notice the difference if the Digital8 has a firewire out. But you may.

If you really care about quality and think you need the best, consider a three-chip CCD camera. And, of course, shoot from a tripod. And don't make any scene longer than a minute. And don't use exotic transitions on your final product - they get old fast.

[mitchell_pgh]

danbrew good movie making advice. Just because iMovie comes with 1,000 different transitions, doesn't mean you have to use them all. I have seen good uses of most of them, and REAL bad ones.

[danbrew]

I had a guy tell me once to NEVER make any scene in a movie more than 30 seconds - the scene being the static view of what you see in the viewfinder. This doesn't mean you should move the viewfinder, but you should cut to another scene.

The way this was presented to me has always stuck in my mind...

Sit down in front of the television one night with a pencil and paper and put an "X" on the paper every time you see a scene in a movie that it more than 30 seconds. Again, keep in mind that when I say "scene", I mean focus area or background or subject. The guy who told me this said he'd buy me dinner if I could gather more than 10 "x"s. Guess what? I couldn't find even one.

Of course this doesn't count for the news or for some boring political speech.

The reality is that "real tv" is what we (and our intended audience) is used to and it's very rare that you'll find a scene that is more than 30 seconds. The producers will switch to a different angle, a different person, a different background, whatever, to keep the movie alive.

I use exactly two transitions - fade to/from black and an instant cut from one scene to another. The others are great fun, but have little real world value (and take a hell of a long time to render).

danbrew

[nitram_again]

So why DO some people have a downer on Digital8?

According to http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-tech.html#DV%20formats

"Sony's Digital8 uses DV compression atop the existing Video8/Hi8 technological base. Digital8 records on Video8 or Hi8 tapes, but these run at twice their normal speed (in the NTSC world; 1.5x in PAL land)� and thus hold half the time listed on the label (2/3rds the time in PAL).

Digital8 will also play back existing Video8 and Hi8 tapes, even over 1394/i.link, allowing such tapes to be read into NLEs (at least, those for which the lack of timecode is not an issue -- batch capture utilities won't work, since Video8/Hi8 timecodes are not sent across the 1394 connection). Digital8 tapes themselves use the same timecode as DV.

Digital8 is largely a camcorder-only format, though two "Video Walkman" portable player/recorders are available. It appears to be the 8mm division's way of keeping its customer base from defecting to DV. By leveraging the massive investments of 15 years in 8mm analog camcorders and transports, the unit cost of Digital8 gear is kept very low, roughly half of what a comparable DV camcorder would cost, and its ability to play back legacy analog tapes is worthwhile for those with large libraries of 8mm.

Hitachi also has started producing Digital8 camcorders although these seem to be hard to come by (thanks to James M. DeLuca for bringing these "stealth" camcorders to my attention).

All Digital8 camcorders can record from the analog inputs (at least outside the EU), and all are equipped with i.LINK ports for digital dubbing and NLE connections. "

If I read that correctly, Digital8 is as good as miniDV but cheaper. AFAIK, the tapes are cheaper, too. The miniDV cameras are smaller, but the Sony Digital8s have a higher optical zoom. Something to do with their larger body size allowing more lens movement. Still, you'd try one in the shop to see how it feels for you anyway.

He also ranks the various formats against each other and, with D-5 (10-bit uncompressed digital) ranking a 10, DV and Digital8 both get a 9. Video 8 & Betamax get a 4, while VHS scores 3.

And as for transitions, watch TV and count 1-2-3, 1-2-3 and you'll see how many 3 second shots there are.

[phantomdragonz]

i used an elura for a school project. i was sold, if i ever need to buy a dv camera thad be the one. $1200 is not terrible for a good little camera. although i would love to have a GL-1 or a xl-1? but i'm not that much of a movie buff.

P.D.

[iamnotmad]

Originally posted by danbrew:
<STRONG>I had a guy tell me once to NEVER make any scene in a movie more than 30 seconds - the scene being the static view of what you see in the viewfinder. This doesn't mean you should move the viewfinder, but you should cut to another scene.

The way this was presented to me has always stuck in my mind...

Sit down in front of the television one night with a pencil and paper and put an "X" on the paper every time you see a scene in a movie that it more than 30 seconds. Again, keep in mind that when I say "scene", I mean focus area or background or subject. The guy who told me this said he'd buy me dinner if I could gather more than 10 "x"s. Guess what? I couldn't find even one.

Of course this doesn't count for the news or for some boring political speech.

The reality is that "real tv" is what we (and our intended audience) is used to and it's very rare that you'll find a scene that is more than 30 seconds. The producers will switch to a different angle, a different person, a different background, whatever, to keep the movie alive.

I use exactly two transitions - fade to/from black and an instant cut from one scene to another. The others are great fun, but have little real world value (and take a hell of a long time to render).

danbrew
</STRONG>

Perhaps you have not seen the brilliant movie that is "Reservoir Dogs".
There are many movies (good ones even) that have scenes much longer than 30 secs.


---- i had to edit this to say that in general though, that is absolutely true. Especially for "home" video. No scenes longer that 30 secs.

I just love "Reservoir Dogs", Quentin is a master of the "long take".

Sorry to get off topic.

[ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: iamnotmad ]

[Macfreak7]

Originally posted by iamnotmad:
<STRONG>

Perhaps you have not seen the brilliant movie that is "Reservoir Dogs".
There are many movies (good ones even) that have scenes much longer than 30 secs.


---- i had to edit this to say that in general though, that is absolutely true. Especially for "home" video. No scenes longer that 30 secs.

I just love "Reservoir Dogs", Quentin is a master of the "long take".

Sorry to get off topic.

[ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: iamnotmad ]</STRONG>

aahh... Reservoir Dogs! great movie!
a couple of other good movies with 'longer than usual takes' are Pulp Fiction (another Tarantino flick), Good Fellas, and Magnolia (the one w/ Tom Cruise). You might want to check those out if you missed them.

[fulmer]

Originally posted by phantomdragonz:
<STRONG>i used an elura for a school project. i was sold, if i ever need to buy a dv camera thad be the one. $1200 is not terrible for a good little camera. although i would love to have a GL-1 or a xl-1? but i'm not that much of a movie buff.

P.D.</STRONG>

I used one just today. 'Used' is a relative word here, as my iMovie skills are a bit, um, premature. Bask in the glory of DV Attempt 01!

[Cliff Corner]

Originally posted by Macfreak7:
<STRONG>

aahh... Reservoir Dogs! great movie!
a couple of other good movies with 'longer than usual takes' are Pulp Fiction (another Tarantino flick), Good Fellas, and Magnolia (the one w/ Tom Cruise). You might want to check those out if you missed them.</STRONG>

And a horrible one: Gridlock'd...starring Tupac. Thanks to my friends little brother. I swear to christ that static shot was at least 5 minutes, of just this girl singing. Augh..
But back on topic, I have a digital 8 camera and like it very much. Truthfully, I can't tell the difference between my camera and my friends Sony DV. Especially if your videos are going on your computer. Compressed, his videos look worse just because of the software he uses on his PC.
The problem now with sony digital8s is the new generation ones have 1/6 ccd and the older ones have 1/4. So, for better color get an older one.