[radii_22]

I've been a long user of Fireworks, maybe since version 4. I think it has a lot of features which combined, can create easily good web sites.

However, I'm discovering now that the current trend in web desing needs a lot of gradients, shadows and bitmap effects. I think that Fireworks is not just as good in pixel precision as Photoshop. I've tried ImageReady, but I find that it is far inferior to the web capabilities of Fireworks. I don't understand the integration between IR and PS.

I just want to know, what software do you use and why, and what advice can you give me. Do you desing web sites in Photoshop, why, and what techniques or tricks are necessary?

Thanks a lot!

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[Super Mario]

Illustrator is used for most of the graphics for layout and logos to give a clean edge and precise control over things like curved boxes etc. Photoshop, IR and Fireworks for optimising photos for the web.

[chirpy22]

I don't know too many people that use Illustrator for web design. Maybe to hammer out some concepts, but most designers I know (including me) use Photoshop to build the interfaces/graphics.
The problem with using Illustrator is that you can't keep the vectors intact when converting to PS unless you copy and paste them, which can take forever if you have a lot of elements). And you definitely want to use vectors in PS as much as possible when doing the layout so you can move things around and scale without loss of quality.
I used to use Fireworks as well. In fact, I bought versions 1 and 2. I liked it, moreso because of its vector capabilities. But when PS/IR adopted vectors as well, there was no reason to keep using Fireworks. They have pretty much the same features for web design. What I thought sucked bad about Fireworks was that it saved files in PNG format. So, one day I went to convert a site layout from Fireworks to PS (because I didn't have Fireworks for OS X) and when I opened the PNG guess what? The areas I designated as slices were covering my layout with colored square areas. It was basically a useless file to all other programs besides Fireworks because of that.
Anyways, other than that I thought it was a cool program. But now that Adobe has bought Macromedia will Fireworks cease to exist?

[godzookie2k]

I use all of them. Photoshop, imageready, and fireworks. Granted, I'm a miserable sonofabitch when I'm in fireworks land, but it has its uses for flash integration. Forget dedication toa program, they all are good at very specific things, and they all integrate relatively well. or what its worth, I do any heavy lifting in photoshop, then pass it to fireworks or imageready.

[godzookie2k]

Originally Posted by chirpy22

I don't know too many people that use Illustrator for web design.

I do, especially if I'm going to flash afterwards.

Originally Posted by chirpy22

Maybe to hammer out some concepts, but most designers I know (including me) use Photoshop to build the interfaces/graphics.
The problem with using Illustrator is that you can't keep the vectors intact when converting to PS unless you copy and paste them, which can take forever if you have a lot of elements).

Smart objects, CS2.

Originally Posted by chirpy22

What I thought sucked bad about Fireworks was that it saved files in PNG format.

fireworks' png support is better than anything elses. Which is awesome.

Originally Posted by chirpy22

So, one day I went to convert a site layout from Fireworks to PS (because I didn't have Fireworks for OS X) and when I opened the PNG guess what? The areas I designated as slices were covering my layout with colored square areas. It was basically a useless file to all other programs besides Fireworks because of that.

Yeah, its been about 3 versions, they've gotten alot better about integration, even without adobe buying MM.

[kyles_mac]

I used to create to the basic, generic layout in Illustrator then take it into Photoshop to do final tweaks and any special effects that I didn't do in Illustrator.

[chirpy22]

Originally Posted by godzookie2k

I do, especially if I'm going to flash afterwards.

You should use FreeHand. It's better at integrating with Flash. MUCH better.
Illustrator also just doesn't have the layer effects that Photoshop can produce for final designs.

Originally Posted by godzookie2k

Smart objects, CS2.

Smart Objects are awesome, but not for creating an interface. They are only good for elements within, such as logos, page headers, insert graphics, etc.

Originally Posted by godzookie2k

fireworks' png support is better than anything elses. Which is awesome.

Yeah, its been about 3 versions, they've gotten alot better about integration, even without adobe buying MM.

That's part of the problem. Nothing supports the same format of PNG that Fireworks creates in it's native form. It's all flattened when you open it in another program.

[Super Mario]

Things like curved corners, border images, header art, background art, etc are still done in Illustrator and sometimes finished off in Photoshop. Look at Veerle's beautiful site that she does so much of in Illustrator first.

http://veerle.duoh.com/

[godzookie2k]

Originally Posted by chirpy22

You should use FreeHand. It's better at integrating with Flash. MUCH better.

Agreed, its just too bad that freehand is incredibly irritating to work in and any flash integration advantages are outweighed by the frustration and the slowness of the workflow.

Originally Posted by chirpy22

Illustrator also just doesn't have the layer effects that Photoshop can produce for final designs.

Heh I also agree. I have an onrunning gag with a friend of mine about how we wouldn't be able to design websites without layer effects.

[QUOTE=chirpy22]Smart Objects are awesome, but not for creating an interface. They are only good for elements within, such as logos, page headers, insert graphics, etc.

I wouldn't use a smart object for an entire interface, of course not, but using Illustrator and photoshop together with smart objects is incredibly powerful.

Originally Posted by chirpy22

That's part of the problem. Nothing supports the same format of PNG that Fireworks creates in it's native form. It's all flattened when you open it in another program.

Also very true. This is why my workflow is primarily, ai's, psd's and then flattened png's for bringing into flash later.

[chirpy22]

Originally Posted by godzookie2k

Agreed, its just too bad that freehand is incredibly irritating to work in and any flash integration advantages are outweighed by the frustration and the slowness of the workflow.

Only if you're more used to Illustrator. I use both frequently, and FH is actually much faster once you get used to it. Especially for selecting objects and changing colors. For instance, if you have a group of about 20 stacked objects, try selecting object number 13 in Illustrator. In FH it takes a couple seconds.
I can create the same graphic in FH about 3 times faster than Illustrator. I've timed myself just out of curiosity. I'm hoping Adobe combines the best of both programs now that they've bought Macromedia.
But this is not the place for a FH Illustrator debate.

[godzookie2k]

I dunno about that, if I've got a groop of stacked objects in illustrator I can select number thirteen in a few seconds.

[Dark Helmet]

I've always designed my sites in Photoshop but exported the graphics in fireworks as I find it a bit easier to use over imageready and the code is also better.

[godzookie2k]

The quality of the code coming out of a graphics application shouldn't even be a blip on the radar of preference, imo. Who uses fireworks/imageready/photoshop generated code anyway?

[andi*pandi]

mario, thanks for the link to a cool site.

[chirpy22]

Photoshop seems to be a bit better at anit-aliasing graphics as well. I've exported something from Illustrator and it just doesn't look as nice as it does when you bring the same graphic into PS and then export it from there. Don't know why.

I also don't see how anyone could select an object quickly in Illustrator out of a series of stacked objects when the ONLY way to do it is either hiding the topmost objects, or using the menu and choosing "Select next object below". I can perform the same action with a key and a click in FreeHand and I guarantee I can select it faster than anyone using Illustrator. It's WAY easier to use.