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drift1492 · 02:44 PM

Size, Speed, Temp ... Pick 2.

I was thinking about where portable computers are headed in the future and remembered discussions I have had with fellow mountain bikers. (Where the 3 options are strength, weight, price). It seems to me that this same line of thinking applies to portable computers as well.

You can have a fast and small (form factor) notebook, but it will run hot or have excessive fan noise.

You can have a fast and cool notebook, but it will be large.

You can have a small and cool notebook, but it will need a slower chip that generates less heat.

I think the problem Apple may be having now is that they are attempting to push the limit on the size (reducing the thickness to 1 inch) as well as pushing the limit on speed.

Up until now, the powerbook/macbook pro aluminum casing could barely handle the heat generated by G4s. Apple was walking a fine line (Even my 12 inch PB gets quite hot.) But now Apple has upgraded to the intel chips, decreased the size of the computer, and kept the same form factor. Apple has pushed the limits a little too far.

The problem now is that consumers are not going to accept an increase in size, or a decrease in speed to fix the heat problem. In all actuality, consumers will expect Apple's future computers to get thinner and faster.

So until either technology allows apple to deliver what they have attempted to with the MBP or Apple changes the form factor, consumers will have to deal with the heat.

Size, Speed, Temp ... Pick 2.

By choosing the MBP you are picking the first 2.

P.S. - If you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. (Sorry, I had to throw this in here.

)

Corrected

icruise · Jun 10, 2006, 02:39 AM

Shouldn't it be:

Size, Speed, Coolness? (or something to that effect)

Otherwise it sounds like you're choosing to have a hot notebook.

drift1492 · Jun 10, 2006, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by Icruise

Shouldn't it be:

Size, Speed, Coolness? (or something to that effect)

Otherwise it sounds like you're choosing to have a hot notebook.

Well, to think of it that way you would neeed to change all 3....

Smallness, Fastness, Coolness.

It seems like most people would assume:

Size....want to be small

Speed...want to be fast

Heat....want to be cool

I guess I could have used "temperature" instead of heat. Oh well.

icruise · Jun 10, 2006, 05:50 AM

Yes, temperature would be a better choice, since "size" and "speed" seem like more general concepts ("size" can indicate either big or small, "speed" can indicate fast or slow) while "heat" to me, implies heat rather than the lack of same.

In any case, I think your analysis is pretty much on target.

Dave Hagan · Jun 10, 2006, 09:33 AM

I don't think any of this discussion is relevant long term. I think in Apple's case getting an Intel chip in an Apple notebook was a rush to get it done by January 2006. They already had a working design in the aluminum PowerBook, iMac. Apple also needed to prove to its customers that the impact of transitioning to Intel didn't mean much in terms of its industrial design and OS X — it was all about the speed (performance per watt).

Looking forward Apple is working on new industrial designs that will address many of the thermal, energy, and weight issues. I also think that the aluminum MacBook Pros aren't engineered right inside because it was a rush job. I have faith that it's going to get better as time progresses over the next 6 to 12 months.

drift1492 · Jun 10, 2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Icruise

Yes, temperature would be a better choice, since "size" and "speed" seem like more general concepts ("size" can indicate either big or small, "speed" can indicate fast or slow) while "heat" to me, implies heat rather than the lack of same.

In any case, I think your analysis is pretty much on target.

Temperature doesnt have the same ring as heat...I like the monosyllabic words.

drift1492 · Jun 10, 2006, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Hagan

I don't think any of this discussion is relevant long term. I think in Apple's case getting an Intel chip in an Apple notebook was a rush to get it done by January 2006. They already had a working design in the aluminum PowerBook, iMac. Apple also needed to prove to its customers that the impact of transitioning to Intel didn't mean much in terms of its industrial design and OS X — it was all about the speed (performance per watt).

Looking forward Apple is working on new industrial designs that will address many of the thermal, energy, and weight issues. I also think that the aluminum MacBook Pros aren't engineered right inside because it was a rush job. I have faith that it's going to get better as time progresses over the next 6 to 12 months.

I agree, but do you really expect chips to get faster AND cooler anytime soon? They have to because consumers will not accept anything less than a 1 inch thick computer at with a faster processor. Apple has always pushed the limits and been ahead of the majority of the industry, but now the increased speed and decreased size has progressed past the level that todays technology allows in a "cool" computer.

icruise · Jun 10, 2006, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by drift1492

Temperature doesnt have the same ring as heat...I like the monosyllabic words.

Temp?

SEkker · Jun 10, 2006, 05:18 PM

I do not find heat in my MBP 15 to be a problem. I think Apple did a good job finding a viable solution.

The real issue is not heat, but power use. With all the extras we demand, Apple has pushed the power adapter to beyond 70W - and beyond what airplanes can provide, etc. And the current power adapters are 50% larger than the earlier matching PB models. The problem with power usage is doubly problemmatic - it makes the batteries larger, reduces cordless functionality, etc.

But to answer one comment -- yes, Intel can make chips faster AND require less power. That's the whole point of the current roadmap [the chips to be released this fall will be FASTER while generating less heat]. The magic is getting everything on the chip smaller. We'll see smaller and faster for awhile yet, until some new bottleneck will drive us to hotter chips.

danengel · Jun 10, 2006, 06:49 PM

I wish the MBP could reduce its processor speed (and maybe other chips too) such that its battery life was longer. For everyday tasks, I simply don't need the performance it offers.

skyman · Jun 11, 2006, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Icruise

Shouldn't it be:

Size, Speed, Coolness? (or something to that effect)

Otherwise it sounds like you're choosing to have a hot notebook.

Agreed.

gokul · Jun 11, 2006, 02:40 PM

good god, half the discussion thus far has been about silly semantics yet everybody knew exactly what was meant in the original post.

SpaceMonkey · Jun 11, 2006, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by drift1492

Up until now, the powerbook/macbook pro aluminum casing could barely handle the heat generated by G4s. Apple was walking a fine line (Even my 12 inch PB gets quite hot.) But now Apple has upgraded to the intel chips, decreased the size of the computer, and kept the same form factor. Apple has pushed the limits a little too far.

Is this actually true? The aluminum cases are supposed to get hot. That's how they cool the machine.

chambone · Jun 11, 2006, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Is this actually true? The aluminum cases are supposed to get hot. That's how they cool the machine.

No, it's not true at all. The case is not a heat sink. Not in the MBP and not in any other Apple laptop.

SpaceMonkey · Jun 11, 2006, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by chambone

No, it's not true at all. The case is not a heat sink. Not in the MBP and not in any other Apple laptop.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30612

Originally Posted by from the link

When using your portable computer, place it on a hard surface, such as a desktop or a tray. A hard surface allows air to flow under the computer to dissipate heat. Placing it on a soft surface such as a towel or pillow (or lap) is not recommended because it does not allow air to flow under the computer.

This would imply that yes, the case is designed to dissipate heat.

Kadman · Jun 11, 2006, 08:47 PM

But that text doesn't apply only to those in aluminum cases. It applies to all notebooks. Heck the same could be said for just about any electronics. I think in this context, the statement is still true that the specific material chosen for the case is not an integral component for heat removal (i.e. a heat sink).

hldan · Jun 11, 2006, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by danengel

I wish the MBP could reduce its processor speed (and maybe other chips too) such that its battery life was longer. For everyday tasks, I simply don't need the performance it offers.

All the Apple notebooks processors' speed can be reduced. Just go into Energy Saver in System Preferences and adjust it to "Better Energy Savings" when plugged into the power adapter or "Better Battery Life" when unplugged. This will reduce the processor speed for times when you are just web surfing or playing music. You can probably play games just fine in reduced mode anyway since the Core Duo is so fast. The heat will greatly reduce is set this way.

gh_productions · Jun 11, 2006, 10:55 PM

Looking forward Apple is working on new industrial designs that will address many of the thermal, energy, and weight issues. I also think that the aluminum MacBook Pros aren't engineered right inside because it was a rush job. I have faith that it's going to get better as time progresses over the next 6 to 12 months.

we have been shoved in the cave all of us watching the walls dance like some techno-tribal allegory. 6-12 months. ha! maybe this feb. we shall see a new laptop. but it is laughable. how many times will apple change faces with a product that works. nothing is causing them to compete yet.

i believe their maybe experimentation going with a new REDISIGNED powerbook. yet, why not reflect on the titanium, if it didn't fleck and irritate consumers they wouldn't have changed to aluminum. Now they found something that works. they most likely will stay with it for a few years.

Furthermore.... the new intel chips don't require as much cooling therefore it will be the same alummi powerbook we have grown to love or hate... it's hard to see them changing anytime soon. it was just yesterday they made us feel like we need to get the all new macs.

jobs said we need to buy an ipod every year. yet, i doubt he intends us to buy a new mac every year. lets use the 300 dollar rule. i think he expects us to buy a new 3 x300 = 900 - mac omputer - every 3 years.

we have a bit more like 18 - 24 months before we see all new asthetics from the industrial side...

i rest my case..

danengel · Jun 11, 2006, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by hldan

All the Apple notebooks processors' speed can be reduced. Just go into Energy Saver in System Preferences and adjust it to "Better Energy Savings" when plugged into the power adapter or "Better Battery Life" when unplugged. This will reduce the processor speed for times when you are just web surfing or playing music. You can probably play games just fine in reduced mode anyway since the Core Duo is so fast. The heat will greatly reduce is set this way.

Anyone know how much CPU speed is reduced from the maximum?

SpaceMonkey · Jun 12, 2006, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Kadman

But that text doesn't apply only to those in aluminum cases. It applies to all notebooks. Heck the same could be said for just about any electronics. I think in this context, the statement is still true that the specific material chosen for the case is not an integral component for heat removal (i.e. a heat sink).

Regardless if it is officially designed to be a heat sink or not, the fact is that aluminum is very efficient at conducting heat. So simply feeling hot to the touch isn't necessarily evidence that the casing "could barely handle the heat," as the OP suggests.

drift1492 · Jun 12, 2006, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Regardless if it is officially designed to be a heat sink or not, the fact is that aluminum is very efficient at conducting heat. So simply feeling hot to the touch isn't necessarily evidence that the casing "could barely handle the heat," as the OP suggests.

I have been using my computer (1.33 12 pb) for about 50 minutes straight right now taking notes and my left palm is sweating because of the heat. I understand that this computer is made out of aluminum and it will feel "hot to the touch," but I cannot imagine a computer that gets even hotter to be even close to acceptable heat-wise.

By "could barely handle the heat" I meant that my personal computer as well as other PB G4s that I have used have been just warm enough to be almost unacceptable to me, but not quite.