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bo989 · Jun 14, 2006, 12:40 PM

This is a cross-post from notebookreview.com.

I should preface this post by saying that I owned an iBook G4 for two years that I loved working with. I am also an experienced PC user. I have little bias toward either platform.

I have been reading these forums obsessively for the last month or so. I finally had the opportunity to see both the MB and MBP in person at an Apple Store on Monday. In general, my impressions were favourable. The units look incredible in person (particularly the black) and are blazingly fast (especially compared to my old iBook). None of the display units were very dirty and the black keyboards and touchpads were surprisingly free of grease.

Feeling the hand rest, the keyboard, and sides of several units, each was only slightly warm to the touch. However, the underside of these computers was a different story entirely.

The MB and MBP aren't simply warm... they're hot. Scaldingly hot. I picked up a MB first. The bottom of the computer, near the ports, was uncomfortably warm to the touch. I picked up three more MBs and all of them were equally as hot. I ran yes > /dev/null on one of the units and the temperature slowly climbed from the low 60s (idle) to 85 or so (load). The bottom of the MB became unbearably hot. Like black plastic left out in the sun on a hot summer day. I tried the MBP next. At idle, the unit was hotter than the MB at load. Ramping it up to 100%, the bottom became too hot to keep my hand on for more than 10 seconds. It was as hot as a metal seat belt buckle in a car left out in that same sun. Not quite as hot as a the burner on a stove (no immediate scalding), but it would definitely burn your skin if left sitting on your bare lap for any great length of time.

I was shocked and extremely disappointed. But the story doesn't end there. I had heard people's claims (on this forum) that all Core Duo laptops run similarly hot and that it was 'the price to pay' for such high performance. This is simply not true. I made my way over to the Sony Store and found an SZ series laptop containing a Core Duo 1.83 GHz processor. I felt for any sign of heat and could find none. The bottom of the laptop was cool to the touch, despite the fact that the fan wasn't running.

Whatsmore, I've since read reviews on other Core Duo laptops, including several models from Lenovo. These reviews report only mild to moderate heat.

The bottom line is that the MB and MBP are flawed machines. Anyone who says otherwise is simply an Apple apologist. I had wanted to love both of these computers, especially the portable and svelte MB. Though it is slightly cooler than the MBP, it is still, in my opinion, an unreasonably hot machine.

nickw311 · Jun 14, 2006, 12:50 PM

I will agree with you that there are a lot of Apple apologists on here but I don't think the heat is a big problem. The processor is running at a temp within spec and I have never had problems using mine on my lap. I would definantly say they are hot to the touch but not scaldingly hot.

bo989 · Jun 14, 2006, 12:58 PM

Thanks for the reply Nick. I understand that heat is a subjective thing and since I don't actually own either computer, I can't say for certain whether I could bear the heat. I understand that the actual chip is operating well within specs (< 100C), but it is completely unnecessary for the shell to get as hot as it does. The Sony SZ is a smaller, thinner notebook and runs essentially at room temperature.

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 14, 2006, 01:07 PM

I agree that they are much hotter than they should be, hopefully apple address' the problem with some updates to the fans software.

nickw311 · Jun 14, 2006, 03:12 PM

Yeah I agree, I could deal with having the fan on more if it made it run cooler. The sound of the fan doesn't bother me because it is pretty quiet and I usually have music or the TV on.

Maybe they should have a System Pref option where you can control the fan usage. Set it at minimum and it would run like it does now or have it so the fan keeps it a little cooler. I would probably only have it at minimum when it is on battery power in order to conserve energy.

Nice objective post btw Bo

greenamp · Jun 14, 2006, 03:26 PM

How many times is notebookreview.com gonna review the MacBooks?

bo989 · Jun 14, 2006, 03:40 PM

Hi Nick. Selectable fan speed would be a good compromise. I know that several LG laptops offer this feature.

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 14, 2006, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by bo989

Hi Nick. Selectable fan speed would be a good compromise. I know that several LG laptops offer this feature.

I think apple is one of the last companies that would do this. they don't like features like that.

powerbook867 · Jun 14, 2006, 05:23 PM

I have no problem with the fan being on to reduce the heat issue. Mine mostly sits on my desk, so it's not a huge deal, but it would be nice to have this resolved.

Socially Awkward Solo · Jun 14, 2006, 05:38 PM

I guess this is why apple tells you in the manual not to use it on your lap nor do they call it a laptop anymore.

Heavy · Jun 14, 2006, 09:25 PM

My black MB gets very warm but never too hot too the touch. A lot of friends have Dells and HP laptops, and I let them feel my MB up, and they shrugged their shoulders and said "yeah, they all do that."

It's not a big deal to me, but if it got hot enough to mar this $700 desk, I be callin' Apple.

But the Sony sounds pretty cool. If I didn't want Garageband so bad, I would've gotten one of those.

aristobrat · Jun 15, 2006, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by bo989

I had heard people's claims (on this forum) that all Core Duo laptops run similarly hot and that it was 'the price to pay' for such high performance. This is simply not true. I made my way over to the Sony Store and found an SZ series laptop containing a Core Duo 1.83 GHz processor. I felt for any sign of heat and could find none. The bottom of the laptop was cool to the touch, despite the fact that the fan wasn't running.

Ah, so my work ThinkPad T60 (also a Core Duo) isn't the only cool Core Duo model out there. Yay.

mathew_m · Jun 15, 2006, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

I guess this is why apple tells you in the manual not to use it on your lap nor do they call it a laptop anymore.

You're such a tool.

masugu · Jun 15, 2006, 07:58 PM

Well.,,since I bought my BlacBook a couple weeks ago / and since I am a veteran member of this forum (although a recent DB SNAFU now shows me as a Sr member

) I have no one to blame but myself.

I love everything about the book - but did wish it ran cooler.Been surfing hte web for a bit / have Word open - and it it pretty warm on my lap.

Here's looking for an OK upgrade to control the fans.

darth-vader000 · 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by nickw311

but I don't think the heat is a big problem. The processor is running at a temp within spec

Running within spec and being too hot can be two different issues. I have one and while it is within specifications its much to hot to use on my lap. I've had the MB now for a bout a month and I use is it almost exclusively on my lap. I just got too hot, and at times (using photoshop) it did get scaldingly hot. I resorted to surgery on the MacBook (reapplied thermal paste) and I'm running 10c cooler then before. Even so my lap gets uncomfortable, I restorted to using the lapinator, a nifty little product that has saved my lap.

I think the apple apologists are quick to point out how all other modern laptops run just as hot but that's not so, I have personal experience with Dell, IBM, HP models and they run much much cooler. apple apologists also are quick to say its not that hot but for many of us it is.

Many macbooks, perhaps the newer ones are running cooler and hopefully apple will release a firmware update to adjust the temperature tables so the fans kick on faster.

Editted for clarification

Heavy · Jun 16, 2006, 12:50 AM

darthvader, a couple buddies of mine said the Dells at their work were just as warm to the touch. Another friend brought his HP along and it felt warm as well. I was worried about this heat thing at first, but it seems at least some of the Dells and HP's feel similar. Mine is an early MB. But maybe I need to have a lot of programs open at once to jack up the temp.

Heavy · Jun 16, 2006, 12:50 AM

Do any of you guys use those cooling trays/stands?

mavherzog · Jun 16, 2006, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by darth-vader000

I resorted to surgery on the MacBook (reapplied thermal paste) and I'm not running 10c cooler then before.

I have a MacBook on order and am planning on doing the same thing. Were there any "gotchas" during the process that aren't well defined in, say, the fixit docs?

darth-vader000 · Jun 16, 2006, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by mavherzog

Were there any "gotchas" during the process that aren't well defined in, say, the fixit docs?

I used this site ifixit as my guide. A couple of tips
Because there are a number of screws of varying lengths, mark where each one came from. Me, I marked on a piece of paper where the screw came from and placed the screw on my scibble.

Also detaching the keyboard assembly is a tad tricky in that the right side of the keyboard has fins that fit in slots on the case. I don't think the website shows that. It took me a while to slowly figure out what was keeping part of the keyboard attached

Finally go slow and don't rush, the disassembly is a lot asier then what the MBP owners had to go through to reapply the stuff. its not difficult if you go slow and take your time.

I'll be curious as to how much thermal paste is on your CPU - keep me informed

Mine was completely gooped and even the excess the oozed out between the die and the heat sink was prodigious. Take a picture of the cpu with the themal paste, I regretted not doing that. Some people didn't believe how much of the stuff was on my cpu. While I cannot guarantee your results I saved 10c from this whole operation. My machine idled at 57c, now 48c. It was doing light internet stuff in the 60s now its in the 50s (celsius)

Regards
Mike

Simon · Jun 17, 2006, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by darth-vader000

I resorted to surgery on the MacBook (reapplied thermal paste) and I'm not running 10c cooler then before.

Originally Posted by darth-vader000

While I cannot guarantee your results I saved 10c from this whole operation.

I'm a bit confused. Did your surgery drop the temp by ~10C or did it not?

Brien · Jun 17, 2006, 04:43 AM

Pretty sure that 'not' is supposed to be a 'now'.

Simon · Jun 17, 2006, 06:02 AM

Yeah, of course. Makes sense. Thanks.

darth-vader000 · Jun 17, 2006, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

I'm a bit confused. Did your surgery drop the temp by ~10C or did it not?

Oops, my fingers typed faster then my brain

I am enjoying a 10c savings in temp and I'm very happy I undertook the surgery.

Sorry for the confusion

Mike

Simon · Jun 17, 2006, 06:22 AM

No problem. If I would have had coffee before reading your posts, I would have noticed that
not ≅ now

Helmling · Jun 17, 2006, 03:36 PM

Ok, first of all, about the heat: I've "owned" only one laptop before. I have, however, had extended relationships with 3 other laptops from work before. These are all PC's, going back to 1998. Now, I have never--NEVER--worked with any of these on my lap because of heat. So frankly, I'm surprised by the complaints about the temperature of the MB's. Honestly, I've thought of the term "laptop" as a conceit for some time.

So these heat complaints don't disuade me at all. I just got my first look at a MacBook at CompUSA. I was surprised. The pictures on the web looked so...well, ordinary. I really was thinking, "What a shame that Apple designed such a ho-hum laptop. Now that I've seen them in person, though, I see that the pictures are deceptive and really, this is yet another elegant and smooth design from Apple. I only saw the black, but I'm dying to see the white in person now.

I've also gotten some playtime with my brother-in-law's MacBook Pro. (Apple can thank me for that switcher. They should pay us a commission in Apple Online Store credit for every convert we bring into the fold. I'd have at least a half dozen.)

So having seen them both, I'm seriously tempted by the MacBook. Not that the Pro isn't a goregous machine, but so's its much-cheaper little brother/sister. I mean the backlit keyboard is great and all, but $800 is a big jump. Of course, as a once-upon-a-time gamer, I keep thinking about the superior video card.

So what's my point? Crap...guess I didn't actually have one.