[macgeek2005]

Well, i've already narrowed it down to two possibilities.

Basically they're the same, except one of them has the 3.0Ghz CPU, and the other one has 4GB of ram.

If I go with 4GB of ram, I get the 2.66Ghz, and if I go with the 3.0Ghz, I get only 2GB of ram.

Which is more worthwhile in the long run?

[mduell]

What do you do? i.e. what apps, what sort of workload, etc.

If you're sitting around for hours waiting for things to compile or render, then the 3Ghz is a good idea. If you're running lots of apps and working with big files, then 4GB is the answer.

Memory and CPUs are both upgradeable... for me I'd go with the 2.66Ghz/4GB.

[macgeek2005]

The only thing I do that takes up alot of power is Gaming.

Other than that I do standard tasks. iTunes, iPhoto, Firefox, iChat, MSN, Photoshop (sometimes. No intense projects), and some audio production in Digital Performer and such.

[MaxPower2k3]

I'd go for the 2.66/4GB. you'll see more of a speedup in general responsiveness and you can run more programs at once without it slowing down. The faster CPU would give you a boost in a couple of areas, maybe a few extra FPS in games, but nothing enormous. and photoshop will run much faster with 4 gigs of RAM... it runs in Rosetta currently, which really benefits from more memory.

[macgeek2005]

Wow, I was seriously expecting that everyone would say to go for the 3.0Ghz of course!

How much does the ram help in games?

And how much faster is the 3.0Ghz CPU?

Somehow 3.0Ghz seems alot faster to me than 2.66Ghz.

I want to do what's best, and I also like the idea of getting a computer with a speedmark score over 300. Do you think that 4GB of ram vs. the 1GB they used in the testing would make my speedmark score be over 300?

Thanks

[mduell]

The clockrate gain is pretty marginal compared (12.5%) to what else you can do with those 800 dollars. I hope, actually, I assume you're getting the X1900XT; that will make your games fly.

What's speedmark? Some meaningless benchmark? The extra RAM may help with the score a little bit, due to the added capacity and bandwidth.

Again, both the CPU and memory are upgradeable. In a few years if you feel the itch for better CPU performance, you can drop in a pair of quads or something.

[macgeek2005]

Of course i'm getting the X1900 XT.

This is the system i'm getting:

* Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
* 4GB (4 x 1GB)
* 250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
* Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)
* 2 x SuperDrives
* Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme
* Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English

Or:

* Two 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
* 2GB (4 x 512MB)
* 250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
* Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)
* 2 x SuperDrives
* Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme
* Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English

$4664.00 either way.

I still can't decide which one to get......

[imitchellg5]

I would go for the 3GHz. In the future, you can always upgrade RAM, but processor would be harder.

[macgeek2005]

Those were my thoughts exactly. The machine is not gonna be any faster from 4GB of ram, if I don't use that much ram. The CPU however, determines the entire speed of most operations.....including games such as Call of Duty which are CPU intensive.

I'll buy another 2GB of ram as soon as the prices go down!

Thanks for the help.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

I would go for the 3GHz. In the future, you can always upgrade RAM, but processor would be harder.

Why is that? They're socketed.

I honestly can't see any reason to blow $800 to jump from 2.66 to 3.0 given that the real world performance difference would be so little that you'd might as well just throw away the $800.

Not to mention the fact that $800 to go from 2.66s to 3.0s is definitely Apple price gouging.

[macgeek2005]

You have a point, but how much difference will 2GB of ram that I'll hardly ever use make?

[Jupeman]

Put the $800 towards a 30" monitor over the 23"? I can't live without my 30"...

[macgeek2005]

Wow, I hadn't thought of that.

That makes the total $4844. That's a bit over my budget, but i'll see what I can do.

What kind of Frame Rates would I get on a 30" moniter? Would I still be able to play Quake 4 on Ultra Quality?

[ender78]

MP RAM is really expensive now. Why not wait a little and just get 2GB for now. If you have an Apple Store near you I would recommend going in to see the machine and displays. I have a 24" Dell display now and would recommend two 23/24" monitors over one 30". At the res of the 30" ACD most games are likely to be quite slow [I may be out of touch buy 2560 x 1600 is likely higher than most games are designed for]. 1900x1200 is a nice native resolution. Two monitors are MUCH better for multitasking.

I would also go with the 2.66 GHz machine. The premium of $800 for the 3.0 is just not worh it right now.

[macgeek2005]

Well, I could just not get any of the options.

It would save me alot of money.

I could just go with the 23" moniter, 2GB ram, and 2.66Ghz CPU for now, and put in another 500GB drive, bringing the total down to $4304.

I dunno, that seems kind of skimpy to me. I suppose it's good though.

I'll take that for now. Ram and CPU are upgradeable!

This will be my final configuration. I swear I won't change it anymore!

* Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
* 2GB (4 x 512MB)
* 250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
* Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)
* 2 x SuperDrives
* Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme
* Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English

$4304.00

Thanks for the help!

[mduell]

Don't buy the extra hard drive from Apple... for what they charge for 500G you can get 750G retail.

Downgrade the 250G to 160G... for what Apple gives you back, you can buy another 250G drive.

Don't buy the extra SuperDrive from Apple... the fastest most capable burners on the market are $35.

[macgeek2005]

Faster more capable?

Can you show me please?

Also, I think for starters i'm just gonna buy one 320GB drive from newegg, in addition to the 250GB that comes in the machine. I don't see the need to replace the main hard drive and go through the hassle of installing the system again.

I only have a 250 and a 320 in my computer right now, and they're half empty.

I also might get this ram. http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other...g/53FB1GD2GBK/

How well would the computer perform with 4x 512mb and 2x 1GB. Is it bad to have it odd like that?

[mduell]

Pioneer DVR-111D

Cache: 2M
CD-R: 40X
CD-RW: 32X
DVD+R: 16X
DVD+R DL: 8X
DVD+RW: 8X
DVD-R: 16X
DVD-R DL: 8X
DVD-RW: 6X
DVD-RAM: 5X

For $32.

[UnixMac]

If I had to choose between 4GB and a 2.66 or 2GB and a 3.0 and the only hi performance task I did was games... I'd do the 3.0... CPU and GPU make more difference in FPS than RAM as most games don't take up much RAM (compared to Photoshop editing etc..)

Plus, it's always easy to upgrade the RAM later as it gets cheaper.. I plan to take mine to 8GB when I can pull it off for $1000 more (I figure 1 year or so).. but if I had to choose, I'd do the CPU speed.. Thank God I didn't have to make that choice!

Also, I agree get your HD's from elsewhere.. I'm getting a Raptor and 500GB 16MB Cache drive both for $440, vs Apple's $400 for just the one 500GB Drive.

[mduell]

It's not bad to have different size DIMMs, but going over 4 FB-DIMMs will increase memory latency, since you now have more than one module per channel.

[macgeek2005]

So... the specs of that Pioneer Superdrive are better than the ones that are in the Mac Pro, but i'm always weary about buying things like that from outside sources. When I put it in the computer, is it gonna be supported by apple's software?

How do I know I won't have weird problems like some people have said they have.

I'm in no rush to burn CD's at 40x instead of 24x, and I find it simpler to put both drives in at apple.com.

Unless you give me a very valid and strong reason to do otherwise, I think i'll do that.

Also I think i've decided to do the 3.0Ghz CPU............

[mduell]

Yes, the Pioneer DVR line are natively supported by OSX. Search this forum to find other people using them.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

You have a point, but how much difference will 2GB of ram that I'll hardly ever use make?

That is what I say. I could never use 4 gigs of RAM extra.

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally Posted by mduell

It's not bad to have different size DIMMs, but going over 4 FB-DIMMs will increase memory latency, since you now have more than one module per channel.

if that's the case, and you get a MP with, say, 4 2GB sticks, does it make more sense to take out the stock 1GB so you still just have 4 DIMMs? will the latency increase outweigh the difference that extra 1 gigabyte (out of 9) of RAM will make?

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by mduell

Yes, the Pioneer DVR line are natively supported by OSX. Search this forum to find other people using them.

Oh okay good. I think i'll buy two of those, and take out the one that comes with the computer. I might as well have two that run the same speed, and I can get two of them for two thirds of the price of getting one from apple.

Are they really better than the ones that ship in the Mac Pro, in every way? I am a little skeptical, considering that they cost $32..... Is there anything better about the one in the Mac Pro?

Thanks

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

Is there anything better about the one in the Mac Pro?

It was touched by Apple's golden hands. That warrants a 200% increase in value. Or didn't you know that?

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by MaxPower2k3

It was touched by Apple's golden hands. That warrants a 200% increase in value. Or didn't you know that?

Ah. Well in that case, I will buy two of the Pioneers. The computer won't have a problem with that will it? Or will it lose it's mind, if it can't find it's original drive?

Will it be trippy to put in the new drives before even starting up the computer for the first time?

How do you reccomend I do it, when I'm replacing apple's drive as well?

[generationfourt]

id go with 3.0 ghz and 4 gb of ram from corsair

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by generationfourt

id go with 3.0 ghz and 4 gb of ram from corsair

I'd love that, however that is out of my budget by several hundred dollars......

But can you give me the link to the Corsair ram anyways?

[SierraDragon]

For those of us using heavy apps I believe that ultimately we will want any new tower purchased in 2006 to have more than 8 GB of RAM on board. Since we only have 8 slots purchasing 2 GB sized modules makes sense to me. I will add 2x2 GB from OWC.

[Jupeman]

Originally Posted by ender78

At the res of the 30" ACD most games are likely to be quite slow [I may be out of touch buy 2560 x 1600 is likely higher than most games are designed for]. 1900x1200 is a nice native resolution. Two monitors are MUCH better for multitasking.

I would also go with the 2.66 GHz machine. The premium of $800 for the 3.0 is just not worh it right now.

I play Halo at full resolution on my dual 2.0 G5 with little issues. It is not perfect, but damn good.

Two monitors may be better for multitasking, but it is hard to replace the large screen for working with images. I suppose it depends what kind of work you use your Mac for.

As for monitor prices, the 20" is the best value "per pixel". Apple has adjusted the 23" price to actually make sense now. Buying 2 23" gets you more screen area for the same money as 1 30". This was not the case in 2004 (when I bought my 30").

[macgeek2005]

A 30" ACD is simply too big for me.

Anyway, do you reccommend buying two Pioneer DVR111's? and replacing the one that comes in the machine?

[imitchellg5]

No, it is only $100 for another, I would just go with Apple.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

No, it is only $100 for another, I would just go with Apple.

Wow, that's a first. Hell, I think i'll do that.

After all, Apple's golden hands have touched it.

[macgeek2005]

My final final final setup will be:

* Two 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
* 2GB (4 x 512MB)
* 250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
* Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)
* 2 x SuperDrives
* Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme
* Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English

$4664.00

Plus a 320GB hard drive for $94.99 from Newegg.

[UnixMac]

except from the drives(both optical and HD), not much different than mine..

I've already got a 23" display... but add this..

With the following configuration:
Processor 656508 3.00 GHz Quad Xeon
Memory 0656413 4GB 667 DDR2 FB DIMM ECC4x1GB
Graphics Card 0656363 ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB
Hard Drive Bay1 0656409 250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s drive <--- Being switched out for a 74GB WD Raptor 10000RPM drive
Hard Drive Bay2 0656742 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s drive
Hard Drive Bay3 0656743 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s drive
Hard Drive Bay4 0656744 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s drive
Optical Drive 0656251 16x SuperDrive DL
Wireless Option 0656725 Airprt Extrm and BT 2.0EDR



Let's keep in touch on the delivery dates.. I was told 3-5 weeks, as of yesterday all due to the X1900...

[mduell]

I wouldn't bother replacing the SuperDrive that comes from Apple. I'd still downgrade the 250G to 160G, and either keep the $75 or buy a 250G for $80ish.

Originally Posted by MaxPower2k3

if that's the case, and you get a MP with, say, 4 2GB sticks, does it make more sense to take out the stock 1GB so you still just have 4 DIMMs? will the latency increase outweigh the difference that extra 1 gigabyte (out of 9) of RAM will make?

Depends if your key applications/tasks are bound by memory quantity (avoiding hitting the hard drive swap) or memory latency (are constantly fetching from RAM in a randomish mannner).

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by UnixMac

except from the drives(both optical and HD), not much different than mine..

I've already got a 23" display... but add this..

With the following configuration:
Processor 656508 3.00 GHz Quad Xeon
Memory 0656413 4GB 667 DDR2 FB DIMM ECC4x1GB
Graphics Card 0656363 ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB
Hard Drive Bay1 0656409 250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s drive <--- Being switched out for a 74GB WD Raptor 10000RPM drive
Hard Drive Bay2 0656742 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s drive
Hard Drive Bay3 0656743 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s drive
Hard Drive Bay4 0656744 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s drive
Optical Drive 0656251 16x SuperDrive DL
Wireless Option 0656725 Airprt Extrm and BT 2.0EDR



Let's keep in touch on the delivery dates.. I was told 3-5 weeks, as of yesterday all due to the X1900...

I'm not ordering mine for another few days at least.... and by the way, how much did that setup cost??

[macgeek2005]

Yay, my computer just sold!

$1300 plus $75 for shipping.

I'll be ordering my Mac Pro shortly.......

[UnixMac]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

Yay, my computer just sold!

$1300 plus $75 for shipping.

I'll be ordering my Mac Pro shortly.......

what did you sell? cause I've got a VERY nice Dual G5, apple care, 4GB, WD Raptor, Geforece, etc.. for $1999 or so, and not even a peep yet, am I too high?...

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by UnixMac

what did you sell? cause I've got a VERY nice Dual G5, apple care, 4GB, WD Raptor, Geforece, etc.. for $1999 or so, and not even a peep yet, am I too high?...

I sold the following G4 tower setup.

Dual 1.25Ghz MDD G4 Tower
1.75GB ram
2x 320GB seagate barracuda, 2x 80GB seagate barracuda, (800GB total)
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro + Radeon 9200 (PCI)
17" Apple ADC moniter
15" Apple ADC moniter
Apple DVI-ADC adapter
8x superdrive
40x CD-RW

Hard drives were wiped clean. Software CD's with 10.3 Panther were included.

[UnixMac]

Thanks... now I feel better about the price of my G5...

[someone]

OK so just to catch up -- cuz I'm planning to buy a Mac Pro too:

CPU: 2.66 if you're budget-constrained, 3.00 otherwise.
How easy is it to drop in a new CPU?
Also -- dumb question, but on another thread here someone was chastised for buying a 3.0 -- they're the same architecture, right?

RAM: 2 GB, wait for prices to come down.
Can someone explain the 4 slot thing again? Doesn't that limit functional memory capacity to 8 gb? (2x4)

Graphics: ATI
Is there anything else out there other than the X1900 and the 7300?
How much better is the X1900 than the 7300? Is it worth it?

HDD: as little as possible, 160-250
Any good brands/manufacturers? Or are they all the same

Optical: SuperDrive + $35 pioneer
Nothing happens if you mix and match optical drive manufacturers, right? Just being paranoid..

Thanks!

[UnixMac]

Originally Posted by someone

OK so just to catch up -- cuz I'm planning to buy a Mac Pro too:

CPU: 2.66 if you're budget-constrained, 3.00 otherwise.
How easy is it to drop in a new CPU?
Also -- dumb question, but on another thread here someone was chastised for buying a 3.0 -- they're the same architecture, right?

Here is what I've been able to gather in the past couple of days.. IMHO.


I say buy the fastest CPU you can, who cares what other "think" you need.. go for the fastest.

RAM: 2 GB, wait for prices to come down.
Can someone explain the 4 slot thing again? Doesn't that limit functional memory capacity to 8 gb? (2x4)

you have 8 slots.... do with them as you wish.. 512MB min, and 2GB max for stick sizes.

Graphics: ATI
Is there anything else out there other than the X1900 and the 7300?
How much better is the X1900 than the 7300? Is it worth it?

The Quadro 4500 is a $1600+ card that is marginally faster than the X1900XT.. if you do pro 3D.

HDD: as little as possible, 160-250
Any good brands/manufacturers? Or are they all the same

I ordered 2 Hitachi 16MB cache 500GB's for $250 or so each.

Optical: SuperDrive + $35 pioneer
Nothing happens if you mix and match optical drive manufacturers, right? Just being paranoid..

Thanks!

I only need one Super Drive, and maybe later when some new fangled drive comes out I'll add it to the open bay.

[imitchellg5]

I would actually keep one drive and put a Bluray drive in the second bay.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by someone

OK so just to catch up -- cuz I'm planning to buy a Mac Pro too:

CPU: 2.66 if you're budget-constrained, 3.00 otherwise.
How easy is it to drop in a new CPU?
Also -- dumb question, but on another thread here someone was chastised for buying a 3.0 -- they're the same architecture, right?

RAM: 2 GB, wait for prices to come down.
Can someone explain the 4 slot thing again? Doesn't that limit functional memory capacity to 8 gb? (2x4)

Graphics: ATI
Is there anything else out there other than the X1900 and the 7300?
How much better is the X1900 than the 7300? Is it worth it?

HDD: as little as possible, 160-250
Any good brands/manufacturers? Or are they all the same

Optical: SuperDrive + $35 pioneer
Nothing happens if you mix and match optical drive manufacturers, right? Just being paranoid..

Thanks!

I'd go with the 3.0 really only if you're completely CPU-constrained (i.e. you sit around for 15 minutes waiting for a render/compile/simulation to finish) or your budget is not an issue.
Dropping new CPUs in is pretty easy. Look at the disassembly by PowerMax to see what is involved in getting the heatsinks off.
The guy who got the "great deal" on 3.0 Xeons in the other thread bought the old Pentium 4 based Xeon (which are dirt cheap), not the new Core based Xeon. If you upgrade your Mac Pro in the future you need to buy Core based Xeons.

The Mac Pro has 4 memory channels with 2 slots per channel. Using more channels is good; bandwidth scales linearly with the number of channels used, so you want to use all 4. Putting more than one module in each channel is possible (obviously), but whenever you use the #2 module in a channel you'll see higher latency (minimum 3-5ns). It appears that the chipset in the Mac Pro (Intel 5000X) should support 4GB per slot, but no one has confirmed that yet; the Intel Xserve is advertised as supporting 4GB per slot, but it is not shipping yet.

7300GT and X1900XT are it unless you're looking to drop the big bucks on FX4500. X1900XT is substantially faster (~3x) in games and other GPU intensive apps (like Motion), but if you don't use any of those the 7300GT should be fine. FX4500 is only really useful in professional environments where you can take advantage of its additional features.

With the money you get back from Apple for the 250->160GB downgrade ($75), you can turn around and buy another 250GB drive ($80 or less). I like Seagate since they're the only manufacturer with a 5 year warranty on all their drives (most are 3 or even 1).

Mixing different optical drive manufacturers is fine.

[ender78]

CPU : $800 is quite a premium for the upgrade, not worth it according to many
RAM: Two four slot risers, 8 slots total
Graphics: 1900 is a LOT better than 7300 for Gaming, what do you do with the machine?
HD: 160 is the best value, take the money you save and purchase your own 320GB drive

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by mduell

Dropping new CPUs in is pretty easy. Look at the disassembly by PowerMax to see what is involved in getting the heatsinks off.

Everyone keeps on saying this, BUT, has anyone tested it? We shouldn't be saying it until it's tested. Typically Apple hasn't always made it easy to upgrade. It would be easy for someone to test, well maybe easy for someone with money. Just buy a Mac Pro 2.0 and switch the 2.0 chips with 2.66 or 3.0 chips. I mean I'd rather not assume something, before I bought it, or said it could be done. I admit it looks easy to upgrade, but is it.

[macgeek2005]

Well, I was about to order my Mac Pro, tommorow, and then I started hearing about HDCP or whatever it's called.

Apperently, if I buy a Mac Pro and 23" ACD now, I won't be able to watch Blu-Ray or HD-DVD on my computer because the graphics card/moniter doesn't support it??? what????

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Leonard

Everyone keeps on saying this, BUT, has anyone tested it? We shouldn't be saying it until it's tested. Typically Apple hasn't always made it easy to upgrade. It would be easy for someone to test, well maybe easy for someone with money. Just buy a Mac Pro 2.0 and switch the 2.0 chips with 2.66 or 3.0 chips. I mean I'd rather not assume something, before I bought it, or said it could be done. I admit it looks easy to upgrade, but is it.

I don't think we'll see any proff until that's financially sensible (currently 1 3.0Ghz chip costs about what Apple wants for the 2.0->3.0 upgrade) or someone has two different speed Mac Pros and a desire to tear them apart.

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

Well, I was about to order my Mac Pro, tommorow, and then I started hearing about HDCP or whatever it's called.

Apperently, if I buy a Mac Pro and 23" ACD now, I won't be able to watch Blu-Ray or HD-DVD on my computer because the graphics card/moniter doesn't support it??? what????

Neither the graphics cards nor the displays currently available from Apple support HDCP.
What you're worried about is the ICT (Image Constraint Token), which is an optional setting in AACS (the content protection system used for HD-DVD and BluRay. When set, players are only supposed to output one quarter quality images (960x540) on non-encrypted links. So far none of the movie distributors have enabled it on their disks. When they do enable it (and believe me they will), there are going to be a lot of pissed off early HDTV adopters.