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kobi · Sep 14, 2006, 12:34 PM

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/

If everyone on the world didn't know this already. Diebold Machines can steal votes?? Big shock I know.
How else do you explain Bush's win in 2004? Or the Ohio voting scandal??

I wonder how pissed the Right is over this study??

Giving the anti-imcumbant sentiment sweeping the nation, there goes their advantage on election day.

Ask for a paper ballot, don't use these machines. Otherwise your vote will go whoever the right programs on a memory card.

The Right doesn't seem to Right at the this point, does it?

Dr Reducto · Sep 14, 2006, 01:03 PM

Of course nevermind that Democrats practically wrote the book on vote fraud.

How else do you explain Bush's win in 2004?

Maybe it's simply that people voted for him. But of course, that isn't as romantic as a vast right wing conspiracy to take the election and kick your puppies

itai195 · Sep 14, 2006, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Reducto

Of course nevermind that Democrats practically wrote the book on vote fraud.

Brilliant rebuttal.

kobi · Sep 14, 2006, 01:09 PM

That's not a rebuttal, that's FUD.

Next.

Dr Reducto · Sep 14, 2006, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by kobi

That's not a rebuttal, that's FUD.

Next.

When I die, bury me in Chicago so I can keep voting

Dork. · Sep 14, 2006, 01:14 PM

He who votes decides nothing; he who counts the votes decides everything.

Chuckit · Sep 14, 2006, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by kobi

That's not a rebuttal, that's FUD.

So was your post.

kobi · Sep 14, 2006, 02:39 PM

Chuck, the only fear that I have is what disaster Bush is going to launch next.

Take the blinders off and come out of the cave.

Next.

Dr Reducto · Sep 14, 2006, 02:52 PM

BlameBush!

Chuckit · Sep 14, 2006, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by kobi

Chuck, the only fear that I have is what disaster Bush is going to launch next.

Take the blinders off and come out of the cave.

Next.

That's not a rebuttal. That's FUD.

You don't get to do it do the Republicans and then complain when somebody does it back.

kobi · Sep 14, 2006, 04:24 PM

Chuck, I'm not complaining about anything, I'm just setting you straight.

If you look at history of the US from Herbert Hoover to present times. Every Republican president has gotten this country into trouble from the Depression to Vietnam to Iran-Contra to Iraq.
And every-time without fail a Democratic president has to pull the country out of the mess.

It will happen again and again until people pull the blinders off and stop being sheep, until you do that I can't help you.

placebo1969 · Sep 14, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by kobi

Chuck, I'm not complaining about anything, I'm just setting you straight.

If you look at history of the US from Herbert Hoover to present times. Every Republican president has gotten this country into trouble from the Depression to Vietnam to Iran-Contra to Iraq.
And every-time without fail a Democratic president has to pull the country out of the mess.

It will happen again and again until people pull the blinders off and stop being sheep, until you do that I can't help you.

I thought JFK (Democrat) got us into Vietnam and Nixon (Republican) got us out?

kobi · Sep 14, 2006, 04:37 PM

Nixon didn't get us out. If Nixon got us out we would have been out in 1969 not 1973.

We pulled out because it was not winnable. Sorry to say Vietnam was a draw in my book.

olePigeon · Sep 14, 2006, 04:41 PM

These Diebold machines are horrible. Democrat or Republican, they should be very worried as either side just has to pony up that-much-more money to get the machines hacked.

I hate Diebold. They're so obviously beyond corrupt it's just disgusting. I want good old fashioned mechanical voting machine with a receipt for me, and a ballot for them. If they have to do a manual recount, so be it; at least I know it's legitimate (for the most part.)

kobi · Sep 14, 2006, 04:45 PM

I'm with ya olePigeon.
Give me a good ol' ballot in English and a Sharpie.
That would fix any future problems for recounts.

Dr Reducto · Sep 14, 2006, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by kobi

Chuck, I'm not complaining about anything, I'm just setting you straight.

If you look at history of the US from Herbert Hoover to present times. Every Republican president has gotten this country into trouble from the Depression to Vietnam to Iran-Contra to Iraq.
And every-time without fail a Democratic president has to pull the country out of the mess.

It will happen again and again until people pull the blinders off and stop being sheep, until you do that I can't help you.

How do you explain Jimmy Carter, ostensibly the worst president we have had in the past 50 years (he's a nice enough guy though)?

Dr Reducto · Sep 14, 2006, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by kobi

I'm with ya olePigeon.
Give me a good ol' ballot in English and a Sharpie.
That would fix any future problems for recounts.

I can't believe you would discriminate against the:
-Blind/Hard of Seeing
-Handicapped
-Non-english speakers (espescially the Spanish speakers)
-Illiterate
-etc

I wish it were that simple

finboy · Sep 14, 2006, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by kobi

And every-time without fail a Democratic president has to pull the country out of the mess.

.

Like Reagan did for Carter? Where have YOU been?

Please try to stick to arguments that might at least have some validity.

ON TOPIC:

The researchers obtained their voting machine from "a private party." I smell BS, or B & E.

olePigeon · Sep 14, 2006, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Reducto

I can't believe you would discriminate against the:
-Blind/Hard of Seeing
-Handicapped
-Non-english speakers (espescially the Spanish speakers)
-Illiterate
-etc

I wish it were that simple

Most ballots are available (at least in California) in Braille (for the blind,) English, Spanish, Vietnamese, Tagalog, and many, many others. You can also request a translator.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 14, 2006, 06:42 PM

The liberals always blame something besides themselves for their lack of success.

subego · Sep 14, 2006, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Reducto

I can't believe you would discriminate against the:
-Blind/Hard of Seeing
-Handicapped
-Non-english speakers (espescially the Spanish speakers)
-Illiterate
-etc

These issues have been taken care of for quite some time.

Without computers.

With that out of the way, you continue pretending to care and I'll continue to pretend your disingenuousness isn't nauseating.

Chuckit · Sep 14, 2006, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

The liberals always blame something besides themselves for their lack of success.

So do all other political groups.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 14, 2006, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

So do all other political groups.

No, some of them blame themselves - then work toward fixing what didn't work.

Gossamer · Sep 14, 2006, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Most ballots are available (at least in California) in Braille (for the blind,) English, Spanish, Vietnamese, Tagalog, and many, many others. You can also request a translator.

Am I wrong to suggest that if you can't even speak the language, you're probably not at a point where you can understand what this country needs and make an educated election choice?

nonhuman · Sep 14, 2006, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Am I wrong to suggest that if you can't even speak the language, you're probably not at a point where you can understand what this country needs and make an educated election choice?

What language would be the language? And why would understanding American politics require speaking a particular language?

subego · Sep 14, 2006, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Am I wrong to suggest that if you can't even speak the language, you're probably not at a point where you can understand what this country needs and make an educated election choice?

No, but the implication that education is a requirement for enfranchisement is wrong.

itai195 · Sep 14, 2006, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Am I wrong to suggest that if you can't even speak the language, you're probably not at a point where you can understand what this country needs and make an educated election choice?

Helen Keller couldn't speak for a long time and yet apparently she was important enough to be on the Alabama state quarter

Anyway, yes, you're wrong. Any citizen should be able to vote.

voodoo · Sep 14, 2006, 08:05 PM

http://coblitz.codeen.org:3125/itpol.../ts-voting.wmv

I would not trust those machines.

V

besson3c · Sep 14, 2006, 08:22 PM

Diebold also make an extensive line of ATM machines. It's rather frightening that so much is dependent on crappy companies like this running technology on Windows.

mydog8mymac · Sep 15, 2006, 04:12 AM

Holy Crap!

Railroader · Sep 15, 2006, 06:58 PM

I'd like proof that a single incident of hacking a voting machine produced fraudulent votes in any election.

That said [/SALTY], I am happy with my voting locations antiquated use of paper and a black marker.

subego · Sep 24, 2006, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

I'd like proof that a single incident of hacking a voting machine produced fraudulent votes in any election.

This is made difficult when the machines don't leave a paper trail.

Rolling Stone interviews a Diebold whistleblower

"The company was authorized to put together ballots, program machines and train poll workers across the state - all without any official supervision."

...days before the primaries, the president of Diebold's election unit, Bob Urosevich, personally distributed a patch to the elections software.

"Georgia law mandates that any change made in voting machines be certified by the state. But thanks to Cox's [Georgia's Secretary of State] agreement with Diebold, the company was essentially allowed to certify itself."

...and given that no paper trail exists there is no way to prove or disprove that the election wasn't tampered with in some way.