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Monique · Sep 26, 2006, 01:57 PM

With a new movie coming out and this special on PBS.

Was she a vilain?

Did she deserve what happen to her?

Was she responsible for the fall of the monarchy in France?

Shaddim · Sep 26, 2006, 02:02 PM

Mmmmm... cake.

ambush · Sep 26, 2006, 02:30 PM

saw the movie in Paris, liked it.

ghporter · Sep 26, 2006, 04:38 PM

Historically, she was a fool. Isolated from the citizenry, she knew absolutely nothing of the reality of France or what the majority of Frenchmen were going through. "Let them eat cake!" is a prime example of a poor little rich girl without a clue saying something that she though made sense.

She lost her head over it.

I'm hoping the movie turns out interesting, in part because I think Kiersten Dunst will look great in those costumes.

Pendergast · Sep 26, 2006, 05:32 PM

She is also known for being the first patient of modern psychiatry.

Although beheading is not as popular these days, it was quite efficient to cure mental health issues then.

voodoo · Sep 26, 2006, 06:31 PM

Maria Antonia is a very populare name for women here in Spain. I guess she had some fans in this neck of the woods

Did I say neck.. perdon!

On the topic of psychology, it hasn't evolved far from beheadings at all..

Four out of five biologists regard psychologists as jibbering baboons, and you should too. If other scientists had their way, Psychology would not be considered a "science" at all, but would be ranked somewhere above Creationism and below Performance Art.

Oh so true!

V

Pendergast · Sep 26, 2006, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by voodoo

Maria Antonia is a very populare name for women here in Spain. I guess she had some fans in this neck of the woods

Did I say neck.. perdon!

On the topic of psychology, it hasn't evolved far from beheadings at all..

Oh so true!

V

Huhuhuhuhuhuhhuhuuuuuu!

blblblblbllllllblblblblbl

You are so wrong!

Now pass the fleas this way please.

CharlesS · Sep 26, 2006, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Historically, she was a fool. Isolated from the citizenry, she knew absolutely nothing of the reality of France or what the majority of Frenchmen were going through. "Let them eat cake!" is a prime example of a poor little rich girl without a clue saying something that she though made sense.

Except that she never actually said that.

ghporter · Sep 26, 2006, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Except that she never actually said that.

Probably not, but it sure seems to have captured her attitude, based on what is recorded that she DID say. I doubt there was a Mme. Defarge screaming "Guillotine! Guillotine!" either, but it seems that there were plenty of fanatic revolutionaries of that vein.

Monique · Sep 27, 2006, 04:18 PM

But Marie never really cared about her people. She was the Queen of France, and never did she inquired about the condition of living of her people. They were there to pay taxes and provide for her high cost of living. Maybe she never said let them eat cake but her actions prove that she did not care if the people live or die. At one point she could have had a monarchy and a republic but she refused.

Oisín · Sep 27, 2006, 04:25 PM

Was she responsible for the fall of the monarchy in France?

No, the revolutionaries were.

ghporter · Sep 27, 2006, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Monique

But Marie never really cared about her people. She was the Queen of France, and never did she inquired about the condition of living of her people. They were there to pay taxes and provide for her high cost of living. Maybe she never said let them eat cake but her actions prove that she did not care if the people live or die. At one point she could have had a monarchy and a republic but she refused.

I think you're crediting her with way too much notice for the little people. She was born to aristocracy, was insulated from the people, and thus had no idea what it was like to be anything but her generation's version of Paris Hilton-spoiled and pampered. Not a nice person to be around.

I think the notion of the well off being attentive to the problems of others is informed, if not completely shaped by the anti-monarchy revolutions of the 18th and 19th centuries. It does not pay to be seen as being uncaring.

Oversoul · Sep 28, 2006, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Monique

But Marie never really cared about her people. She was the Queen of France, and never did she inquired about the condition of living of her people. They were there to pay taxes and provide for her high cost of living. Maybe she never said let them eat cake but her actions prove that she did not care if the people live or die. At one point she could have had a monarchy and a republic but she refused.

I caught the PBS documentary last night, and one of the things that struck me was the thickness of protocol at the French royal court. Marie Antoinette never saw the coast in her entire life in France, and I'm not sure it's because of her own volition. Life at Versaille was regimented and removed and its customs, protocols and etiquettes were in place long before Marie moved in. Sure, she was spoiled and lived a charmed life in her palace, and perhaps it's true she didn't care -- but given her surroundings should it have even occurred for her to care?

Also, you have to remember: Marie was a Hapsburg princess in a French court. Further, consider that the French monarchy was an absolute monarchy -- had been for hundreds of years. The French king wasn't constrained like the English monarchy by a Parliament to tax. That's just the way it was, and you're judging history with a 21st century perspective.

Monique · Sep 28, 2006, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Oversoul

I caught the PBS documentary last night, and one of the things that struck me was the thickness of protocol at the French royal court. Marie Antoinette never saw the coast in her entire life in France, and I'm not sure it's because of her own volition. Life at Versaille was regimented and removed and its customs, protocols and etiquettes were in place long before Marie moved in. Sure, she was spoiled and lived a charmed life in her palace, and perhaps it's true she didn't care -- but given her surroundings should it have even occurred for her to care?

Also, you have to remember: Marie was a Hapsburg princess in a French court. Further, consider that the French monarchy was an absolute monarchy -- had been for hundreds of years. The French king wasn't constrained like the English monarchy by a Parliament to tax. That's just the way it was, and you're judging history with a 21st century perspective.

But, you see Louis the XIV was totally different and the people were not starving. And it depends of your character, it is not because she lived in Versailles, she could not have asked the question, are the French people ok or are they starving. She used to go into Paris to see plays but ignored the people dying on the streets. She obviously changed and start caring, you know what too little to late.