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meagain · Dec 8, 2006, 06:30 PM

OK.... I still can't get this to work so this is a last ditch effort before being forced to return my Mac to go back to PC.....

I 'need' to be able to highlight both the message body AND header (From/Subject/Date) of my emails. Just highlight with the mouse. It won't let me. There is an invisible barrier between the mail header & body. I have looked at Thunderbird and Entourage. None of them will allow this very simple task.

Before I give up..... does anyone know of any way to make this work? Or, if Leopard will fix this? Fingers crossed. Thanks.

gradient · Dec 8, 2006, 06:34 PM

For whatever reason it only seems to work if you start highlighting at the end of the message and move towards the top of the header. Works fine in Mail here - 10.4.8.

meagain · Dec 8, 2006, 06:37 PM

Everyone says that but it doesn't work for me. There's a barrier the highlight can't cross no matter what I do. I wonder if there's a way to change a setting or something. IDK This is such a huge problem for me. It just never occurred to me that I wouldn't be able to do this simple task so I didn't investigate before purchase.

Macanoid · Dec 8, 2006, 07:03 PM

you should be able to select the header without any problems. Im mail preferences you can set the way the header is shown. It's under viewing. What's it saying there? I heave it set to default.

JKT · 07:35 PM

After a little bit of experimentation this is how it works in Mail:

1. If the message is plain text, a simple command-A to select all will do just that, select all including the headers.

2. If the message has any attachment or is RTF or HTML, a select all will do two different things depending on where your insertion point is. If it is in the header, it will select the header plus attachments, but not the text. If it is in the text, it won't select the header or attachments.

I suspect your messages are running into the 2. condition above?

Btw, I forget why you want to do this. Is it for archiving purposes? If so, you can Save As... (command-shift-S) an RTF/RTFD file if you wish.

meagain · Dec 8, 2006, 07:18 PM

Hi. It's set to default. I talked to support twice today about this and they have the same problem. They say it can't be done. But you guys seem able to. I have 10.4.8 as well.

The weird thing is that a very very scant few of my emails I can do this with via highlighting bottom to top of header. But that's like 2% of my emails. The ones I can't, vary from friends to ebay, etc. So a mix of regular people & forum notifications, etc. I wish I understood why.

JKT · Dec 8, 2006, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by meagain

Hi. It's set to default. I talked to support twice today about this and they have the same problem. They say it can't be done. But you guys seem able to. I have 10.4.8 as well.

The weird thing is that a very very scant few of my emails I can do this with via highlighting bottom to top of header. But that's like 2% of my emails. The ones I can't, vary from friends to ebay, etc. So a mix of regular people & forum notifications, etc. I wish I understood why.

See my post above. It works when the mail is plain text only. If it has any attachments or is an RTF or HTML mail it won't work.

Once again... why is it that you need to do this? Is it just for archiving or do you need to do it for a specific reason?

gradient · Dec 8, 2006, 07:32 PM

It's probably the HTML ones that won't let you do it. JKT seems to be correct, the example email i used before my initial post was a text email, html emails will not let me highlight them both at the same time. Why do you need to do this? I have a hard time understanding why this one little thing would be enough for you to return your computer and go windows.

EDIT: JKT Beat me to it, see above.

meagain · Dec 8, 2006, 07:39 PM

Well - I see one email I can't highlight that appears to have no html, etc. in it. It's just regular typeing from a regular person. This confuses the heck out of me. Maybe there's some setting I can change to turn off the computer's ability to detect html or maybe a plain vs. rich text thing?

I want to do this cuz I work off the computer and need to avoid printing the WHOLE email of like 6 pages long when I just need the first paragraph, etc. But I need that header.
Say for instance I work remotely and my company sends me a 10 page document - and only the first 3 inches of that document is critical for me to copy/paste or print...... That type of thing..... but I want to also print the header which contains important pertinent information.

I figured out how to print a selection, but I can't select it. This may sound goofy but I need to do this one action perhaps 50-100 times a day.

meagain · Dec 8, 2006, 07:41 PM

I tried the Entourage test drive. Nope.
Thunderbird. Nope.
Tho' i've not spent much time making them work. Just saw that I couldn't today. But right now, I'm assuming this is a Mac thing.

Chuckit · Dec 8, 2006, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by meagain

Maybe there's some setting I can change to turn off the computer's ability to detect html or maybe a plain vs. rich text thing?

Yes. Choose View->Message->Plain Text (or just hit apple-option-P) to force plain text.

Incidentally, as you can see from the fact that it works in Mail with plain text, it's not a Mac thing. It seems to be a strange coincidence that so many programs behave that way.

JKT · Dec 8, 2006, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by meagain

Well - I see one email I can't highlight that appears to have no html, etc. in it. It's just regular typeing from a regular person. This confuses the heck out of me. Maybe there's some setting I can change to turn off the computer's ability to detect html or maybe a plain vs. rich text thing?

If they use any formatting at all, then the text will be converted to HTML. If there is a signature with formatting, then it will be HTML. If you want to check for yourself, select the View>Message>Raw Source option for any messages you can't select the header for and you will see HTML code at the bottom of the pane.

Why this should prevent you from selecting the headers, I do not know, but it is the cause.

FWIW, there is a workaround. Print the message, but instead of printing, select Preview to open a PDF of the message in Preview. Select the text you want to copy/paste or print and do your thing with it. The header will be selectable now.

However, if you don't care for the formatting of the text in your print out or selection, just convert the message to plain text as indicated by Chuckit above, and you will now be able to select the headers without having to use that workaround.

meagain · Dec 8, 2006, 08:16 PM

OMG OMG! CHUCKIT! You're a freeking brilliant genious! It works!!!!! I love you!
I did FIVE calls with Apple support and each one said it can't be done. I even brought up various html, etc. changes to preferences and they firmly said no way! I've been through hell with this.

OK - Is there any way to automatically default all my incoming mail to be in this WONDERFUL format? Or maybe gang-select them to do this? OMG! CHUCKIT CHUCKIT CHUCKIT!

JKT · Dec 8, 2006, 08:32 PM

Alas, there isn't any way to set it as a default view for all received emails in Mail, but the shortcut isn't hard to remember (note, command-[ and command-] will toggle through all views).

meagain · Dec 8, 2006, 08:46 PM

Yep. And I see that just hitting "forward" one can then select everything they want. Sheesh!
Umm... 5 Tech supports (2 being a higher tier).... I think should have known this. JMHO.

OK - I keep the Mac.

You guys are wonderful. I posted everywhere in utter desperation (last straw) and this place nailed it first.

Thank you all!

tooki · Dec 8, 2006, 09:10 PM

Or you could have just printed the first page of the email only.

tooki

Mastrap · Dec 9, 2006, 07:12 AM

I was thinking the same thing. If you make your own life difficult, don't blame the Mac for not being able to simplify it again.

Just hit print, page 1-1 and you're golden. Surely that's not rocket science?

CharlesS · Dec 9, 2006, 07:21 AM

Eudora also seems to always let you select the headers.

Unfortunately, it's pretty old-fashioned these days, but if this particular thing is that important to you...

JKT · Dec 9, 2006, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I was thinking the same thing. If you make your own life difficult, don't blame the Mac for not being able to simplify it again.

Just hit print, page 1-1 and you're golden. Surely that's not rocket science?

Hold on, meagain didn't say that he/she just wanted to print the documents, he/she also wants to be able to copy and paste. Evidently this is easy to do on a PC (though I have just tried in Outlook, and I can't even select more than one header at a time, and I certainly can't select text plus headers... colour me confused).

There doesn't seem to be any logical reason why Mail should stop you from selecting the headers at all times, and I would call it a bug/UI flaw myself.

monkeybrain · Dec 9, 2006, 10:25 AM

Is it possible to do a non-continuous text selection for this? Try holding down command as you highlight the header and then hold it down again as you highlight the part of the message you want.

JKT · Dec 9, 2006, 11:32 AM

Nope. It is actually quite a terrible UI mistake that happens here. You can select the header and it will stay selected (though greyed out) and then select the text, but only the text will be copied.

monkeybrain · Dec 9, 2006, 11:04 PM

That is very misleading behaviour, we should all report that to Apple. I wonder if it has been altered in Leopard? Non-continuous text selection is still hit and miss in OS X, Steve should really sort this sort of thing out, it's something that could cause real frustration for a user.

tooki · Dec 10, 2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by JKT

Nope. It is actually quite a terrible UI mistake that happens here. You can select the header and it will stay selected (though greyed out) and then select the text, but only the text will be copied.

No, the behavior is correct, since it's treating each text selection as a discrete object. Indeed, it would be a terrible UI mistake for a grayed-out selection to be copied. An inactive object (be it a text selection, a window, etc) should NEVER be affected by a normal command. (There are a few modified commands, like command-option-W to close all windows, that affect inactive items.)

Of course, that's beside the real point: that there's no reason the headers can't be part of the same selection.

tooki

JKT · Dec 10, 2006, 12:54 PM

That's pretty much what I meant. It has the appearance that you can select both sets of text that are in the same window at the same time, yet it doesn't. The UI mistake is for one set of text to be treated as though it is distinct from the other *within* the same window.

mike3k · Dec 11, 2006, 03:33 PM

I was just going to mention the plain text alternative.

What is it you're actually trying to do? Are you trying to copy & paste the full headers for spam reporting? In that case, view raw text (cmd-option-U) and copy the entire text.

BTW, I've quit using mail.app completely. I now use gmail on the web as my preferred email client and I have all of my email addresses forwarded to my gmail account. The advantage is I can now easily access my email from any Linux or Mac system without having to sync.

CharlesS · Dec 11, 2006, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by mike3k

BTW, I've quit using mail.app completely. I now use gmail on the web as my preferred email client and I have all of my email addresses forwarded to my gmail account. The advantage is I can now easily access my email from any Linux or Mac system without having to sync.

You can do that with Mail.app and any e-mail account that supports IMAP.

blueleaf · Dec 11, 2006, 08:36 PM

wait, did i mis-read the question or something...

couldn't you have just copied the heading and the body seperately and copied that into Word or something? From there you could copy it into a new message or do whatever else you want to do with it...

Seems as though that would've been another simple solution to your problem...Correct me if I'm wrong though, because maybe there's more to the question than I saw.

Mark

gregarios · 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by meagain

I tried the Entourage test drive. Nope.
Thunderbird. Nope.
Tho' i've not spent much time making them work. Just saw that I couldn't today. But right now, I'm assuming this is a Mac thing.

NO MATTER what, in Thunderbird you can select View --> Message Source and select anything you want in there. It just displays the entire email with no alterations... headers, tags, html, body, whatever...

BTW thinking it is just a "Mac thing" is ridiculous. I suppose you sound like, "I can't sit close enough to my desk to see the keyboard because my chair is too big. Must be a "Mac thing" huh?" ;-) Besides, you know what "assume" does don't you? ;-)

lklarson · Dec 15, 2006, 04:21 PM

I do this all the time in Eudora. Current version is 6.2.3.

Big Mac · Dec 15, 2006, 04:36 PM

The original poster should return the computer. Some people need to use inferior systems.

PubGuy · Dec 17, 2006, 03:42 PM

Hey Big Mac, lighten up.

The poster was asking a question and people were helping out. A solution was found and the poster thanked everyone for their help.

No need to be rude about it.

Parky · Dec 17, 2006, 06:52 PM

It seems a bit of a non event to return the computer though!