[anonymac]

If you take a look at the sad state of theming on Unsanity's web page, you'll find that maxtheme's Max hasn't updated his website in nearly six months, swizcore.com results in a "server not found" error, and the rest of the theme sites have themes from OS X 10.2 which aren't even usable anymore.

What happened to theming? Has theming been disgraced by vaporware like BBX Omega? Is William Bart now working at the ring-toss stand at the local carnival?

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

And this is where Greg Landweber and Arlo Rose come in and say that Kaleidoscope has been ported to Mac OS X..... *cough*

.
.
.
.
.
.
j/k


I really wish they did port it though..... i mean, if nothing else, -THAT- would definitely make my Mac time more..... fun..... yeah..... I've never been fond of the limitations of ShapeShifter. Or at the very least, make a completely new version of Kaleidoscope for OS X.

For all of you who made the switch to Mac OS X from other platforms, AFTER 2003/2004, this is what Kaleidoscope used to look like.

[air]

OOOOH man. That brings me BACK.

COPILOT!! so nostalgic.

[His Dudeness]

Think that's bad? Try getting free "good" themes for XP.

[cakey]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

Think that's bad? Try getting free "good" themes for XP.

The free ones are usually better than the non-free.

[kc311v2]

Someone needs to bring back COPILOT for OS X.

[keekeeree]

Originally Posted by ©öñFü$íóÑ 

And this is where Greg Landweber and Arlo Rose come in and say that Kaleidoscope has been ported to Mac OS X..... *cough*

.
.
.
.
.
.
j/k


I really wish they did port it though..... i mean, if nothing else, -THAT- would definitely make my Mac time more..... fun..... yeah..... I've never been fond of the limitations of ShapeShifter. Or at the very least, make a completely new version of Kaleidoscope for OS X.

For all of you who made the switch to Mac OS X from other platforms, AFTER 2003/2004, this is what Kaleidoscope used to look like.

Those were the days...

I always loved Albie Wong's schemes, especially PussyGalore, ElectricMonk and BeeHive (especially BeeHive).

[lesman]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

Think that's bad? Try getting free "good" themes for XP.

As much as I love Mac and OS X, I have to wholeheartedly disagree. Theming for Windows is completely alive and has been at full steam for years. Look up, look down, look to the side. There will be a good free theme there.

All themes for Windows are free, anyways, unless you're getting your own self ripped off. Just head over to www.wincustomize.com. That's the home of Windows theming. There, you'll find thousands of themes. They're free. That's just scratching the surface. There are tons of websites out there dedicated to Windows theming, as well.

I think Windows is more theme-capable overall. There's more that's able to be customized in Windows.

I really hope theming comes back for OS X, though...

[G0Ducks]

Yeah... I have been saying this for years!
[Customize.org] Download Skins, Themes, Wallpapers and Icons for Windows from the original skin site!, skinz.org and the above link.

AND now that Unsanity is the be-all end-all for mac themeing and GUI crap, they get the burden of shouldering the massive failure that is the themeing world for Mac. I'm glad we have what we have, I'm glad that they work hard to make sure that themes work on PPC and Intel, I'm glad that there are a few people out there that can take the time and slave wage to make a theme... I just wish they would make it easier for the rest of us to make a theme.

I wonder how difficult it would be to make a XP Theme converter?

R

[MaxPower]

For some insight into what Mac themers, Unsanity, and even BBXOmega are up against, please take a look at the PSD files graciously provided by Adam Betts here (4th post)

That was Aqua from 2 years ago. Each OSX release adds more complexity to the myriad images that comprise a finder window. Apple is clearly not interested in making it easy for themers. Contrast that with Windows XP which has two default themes, one of which has 3 sub styles.

As a mac user, I know this is a bitter pill to swallow, but Microsoft designed XP to be relatively themer friendly*, whereas Apple did not do the same for OSX.


*Of course, MS didn't really want theming to happen this way. They wanted you to pay their official 3rd party theme supplier, Stardock, to supply themes. However one hacked DLL was all it took for XP to recognize non-sanctioned resource files, leading to the thousands of themes you see.

What did it take for us Apple fans to get theming? A Unsanity/Geekspiff/whoever had to figure out how to modify an applications running code in memory] for OSX to pick up a new theme. Before that? You had to manually swap out the aqua resources with your own theme. This had zero margin for error as one mistake would mean you'd have to boot into single user mode and replace the aqua resources with your backups. This is a 10-mile wide sign plowed through a cornfield, visible from space from Apple saying 'DONT F*CK WITH AQUA'.

If you want to place blame, it belongs squarely at the feet of Apple. This is all part of the double-edge sword that is the Apple experience! (Don't even get me started about how, as a legitimate Mac Pro/OSX user I have no 3rd party graphics card options, whereas people booting into XP on the same hardware have free reign. Not to mention hackintoshes).

I'd suggest venting some of this to http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/.

[Chuckit]

A large part of the problem is that OS X is really not designed with theming in mind. There are fundamental design decisions that make it a really hostile environment. Elements generally have a static size, position and behavior. You can switch colors and you can switch images — that is the extent of what's possible without basically rewriting the windowserver. You can't move things around, resize them or add stuff onto them — you don't even have much flexibility with the appearance of an item if it's made up of several interdependent images.

[Curiosity]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

Think that's bad? Try getting free "good" themes for XP.

But for XP it is easy to make your own themes. All but 2 themes that I have on my PC were put together by me, and the other 2 were tweaked by me.

[sushiism]

xp has a lot less user interface elements, everyone writes there own so most apps look like dogshit when themed, nothings standard you can have 4 different types of menu bar on screen at once and thats just the MS apps its bullshit

[mac128k-1984]

I agree, it seems like in most things, apple and microsoft have taken divergent paths.
M$ has decided to keep things relatively open with UI which provides applications like window blinds a relatively simple way to theme. While I'm no themer it seems to me that its much easier to create a theme for windows also.

Apple has charted a course 180 degrees to that of MS and that is to close the environment and make it very difficult to apply a theme (never mind creating one in the first place). If memory serves me, every release of the OS has broken SS because apple changes things that SS relies on.


All in all, with Macintosh's reputation with designers and creative people, i.e., thinking different, this flies in face of that. I'm surprised to see SS continue and some dedicated (and talented) artists creating themes. but if you look at the depth and breadth of what's available for windows it blows away what theming can be done OSX.

[autumnmist]

I beg to differ about Windows themes being pieces of crap. As always, when you have a relatively easy method for theming and lot of users, you'll have a lot of crap but also a lot of beautiful, quality work.

Ironically, up until I switched a few months ago, I spent most of my time in Windows theming on Aqua-Soft (loving Windows ports of Mac themes). I do miss some of the other Windows theming abilities. It's a real shame that it's so hard to theme Macs when Macs are supposed to be at least in part, a OS for creative people and designers.

I'm a little sad that I switched from Windows just after Stardock managed to get alpha transparency working in themes. Certain parts of Windows Vista might suck ass, but being able to make parts of a theme transparent or drastically alter the shape of the window really increases enhances artist's ability to make creative themes.

Check out some of these themes. Obviously tastes differ, but they are all well-made:
Ecliz Deluxe by ~yingjunjiu on deviantART
Edisso WB by ~yingjunjiu on deviantART
Azenis 2 WB by ~yingjunjiu on deviantART
Thallos WB by `-kol on deviantART

[Kid Panda]

This is my first post ever, so apologies if I step on any toes or do something redundant. But no apologies for being long-winded

First of all, I don't think theming is dead. Releases and updates might not come out as often as we'd all like, but to step back and look at the quality of work that's come out over the last couple years is to be impressed. Gerrit, before he retired, produced interfaces that were as consistent and professional as anything done by Apple or Microsoft; David Lanham has done some extraordinarily creative work; Hiro.gen's hit the scene recently; Susumu Yoshida and Daisuke Yamashita are both very talented; and everyone probably has some favorites that I haven't mentioned.

One often hears complaints about how hard Apple has made theming for OS X, but it's obviously still possible -- and even within the spatial parameters of Aqua there's room for enormous creativity. And I have no nostalgia for Kaleidoscope; some of the themes were fun, but most were just eye candy.

I'm a bit older than most everyone in the community, I think, and while every now and then I like a fun GUI diversion (EYLO update, please! and more props for the all-time underrated Somatic!) I rely on themes to create work environments that are professional but not boring. As a journalist, I often write about serious topics, and need virtual environments in which serious thoughts can take place, and serious work be done. Aqua as tweaked to Smoothstripes fits this bill; so do a number of other themes -- many more than were ever created using Kaleidoscope.

What's really amazing and frustrating, however, is how such a small community has produced this work -- and it's not because of Apple, or because creating mockups is so hard (anyone with design skill and an afternoon can do tha). I think the real problem is that theme design software is simply awful. I know the Geekspiff peeps put a lot of work into Themepark, and bless them for it, but the learning curve and interface is beyond difficult. And -- speaking as a non-coder, and perhaps wrongly -- it really doesn't seem like much more would be needed to turn the ThemePark engine into a fairly simple, easy-to-understand program in which the theme could be seen in its entirety, on the fly, with elements clearly defined and easy to manipulate.

That Unsanity hasn't done something about this is mind-boggling. It's simply a dumb business decision. And as soon as that changes, I think there will be a renaissance in theming.

[Kevin]

I remember Sosumi taking me forever and a day. Simple Aqua was much easier.

Then only to have the OS upgrade and constantly have to change it even more.

Since you don't really get payed for it, it wasn't really worth it.

Not to mention the rip-off artists that wont give you credit and ungrateful users.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Kid Panda 

This is my first post ever, so apologies if I step on any toes or do something redundant. But no apologies for being long-winded

First of all, I don't think theming is dead. Releases and updates might not come out as often as we'd all like, but to step back and look at the quality of work that's come out over the last couple years is to be impressed. Gerrit, before he retired, produced interfaces that were as consistent and professional as anything done by Apple or Microsoft; David Lanham has done some extraordinarily creative work; Hiro.gen's hit the scene recently; Susumu Yoshida and Daisuke Yamashita are both very talented; and everyone probably has some favorites that I haven't mentioned.

One often hears complaints about how hard Apple has made theming for OS X, but it's obviously still possible -- and even within the spatial parameters of Aqua there's room for enormous creativity. And I have no nostalgia for Kaleidoscope; some of the themes were fun, but most were just eye candy.

I'm a bit older than most everyone in the community, I think, and while every now and then I like a fun GUI diversion (EYLO update, please! and more props for the all-time underrated Somatic!) I rely on themes to create work environments that are professional but not boring. As a journalist, I often write about serious topics, and need virtual environments in which serious thoughts can take place, and serious work be done. Aqua as tweaked to Smoothstripes fits this bill; so do a number of other themes -- many more than were ever created using Kaleidoscope.

What's really amazing and frustrating, however, is how such a small community has produced this work -- and it's not because of Apple, or because creating mockups is so hard (anyone with design skill and an afternoon can do tha). I think the real problem is that theme design software is simply awful. I know the Geekspiff peeps put a lot of work into Themepark, and bless them for it, but the learning curve and interface is beyond difficult. And -- speaking as a non-coder, and perhaps wrongly -- it really doesn't seem like much more would be needed to turn the ThemePark engine into a fairly simple, easy-to-understand program in which the theme could be seen in its entirety, on the fly, with elements clearly defined and easy to manipulate.

That Unsanity hasn't done something about this is mind-boggling. It's simply a dumb business decision. And as soon as that changes, I think there will be a renaissance in theming.

I've said this quite a few times. Themepark sucks. Period. SkinStudio by Stardock may be crappily coded (slow, bulky) but it makes themeing easy. Even the Theme Creator for MSStyles by TGTSoft, although a little hard to learn, is miles easier than Themepark.

I've used both Windows theme creation programs extensively when creating Watercolor for msstyles and WBs, and trying to use themepark makes my head spin. It's just very frustrating not to be able to see the changes as you make them on-the-fly.

In the very least, they should have a Preview pane that let's you select each element, and have the program list all of it's properties, instead of having to drill down pane after pane just to get the element you want.

[Kevin]

Sprocket was an easier theme editor. It was just buggy.

[Miniryu]

I'd love to give theming a try. I too am tired with the variety of the available themes. To the artists reading this, most everything I see looks very professional and usable, but it all looks the same. Somatic, that Valentine theme, and that Goth spider-looking theme (I appologize to the artists, I can't remember the names at the moment) are the only themes that attempt to break from the mold. It would be great to see something in some wild colors. If there was an easy way to do it...

Doesn't themepark cost money? That is another deterrent- I am sure people are reluctant to spend money just to provide free labor to create a theme for the community.

[bennettvonbennett]

as someone who has been using primarily macs for about 20yrs, it seems absolutely obvious that apple is making it as difficult as possible to customize OS X. as the owner of a macbook pro running Bootcamp i find it ironic that i can - for the price of about $49 (Stardock Suite) - tweak the Windows XP interface to emulate almost exactly: OS X (any flavor), OS 9, OS 8, OS 7 (!), BeOS, QNX, Gnome, etc etc etc. while on the Mac side, it seems it is impossible to create a scheme where the window control widgets are located anywhere except the top left side of the window!
and while i want all the people who put their time and energy into developing themes for SS to know how much i appreciate their efforts... i find it frustrating that essentially these themes are limited to coming up with new color schemes and various degrees of menu transparency.
as far as i can figure - and this is only my totally unqualified opinion - Apple (Steve Jobs) believes strongly that the OS X interface is an essential part of Apple's brand identity and as such shoudnt be ****ed with. this i think is especially true given the recent explosion in popularity of iPods and subsquently iTunes - an app which maintains its branded 'look' even in XP.
i must admit that it is Job's genius that saved Apple from being a merely a footnote in some future Universal History of Microsoft, but i can't help but remember that not too long ago i could happily transform my entire interface with Kaleidoscope all the while snickering at Win 95 users who couldn't even make their folders change color! times have changed... and while i dont miss extension conflicts, crappy TCP patches, and system crashes, i wish Apple would have opened up the UI API's for open development.
just my $.02
peace,
b

PS I remember hearing quite a bit about how much apple hated Kaleidoscope and how there was some degree of litigation between them... but i forget the details. anyone know the story (Greg Landwebber - you out there?)

[Spacez]

I am dying to create some themes for Mac OS X. However, themepark is very confusing. Not to mention the new APE 2.0 is annoying SLOW in booting.

I wish something is out there to replace it.