[Azure]

Just got my MBP and am totally loving the switch to apple. But I have a quick question for the rest of you more seasoned mac owners. It seems the lid is closed tighter on the left side than the right. The right side has a little gap and I can push down on it and feel a little give as opposed to the left side where there is no movement. I think this is just my anal side showing through, but also, I'm wondering if I should worry about this? Will applecare give me a hard time about this down the road should something come up? I guess that's really the only reason why I feel I should address this issue with them now if it is in fact a problem. Or is this normal?

Left side


Right side



Oh, one more question, I wasn't able to use ichat to connect to AIM with the default 5190. I had to switch to 443. Only on the Mac OS side, when I boot up in XP with bootcamp, it seems to connect fine with 5190. So that's more a software issue than hardware? Is it an issue?

Sorry these are some very NEWBIE concerns, but I'm new, please bare with me. Thanks!

[iREZ]

i have the same thing on my 2.0 cd. ive grown to overlook it :shrug:

[herbsman]

almost all powerbooks and macbook pros have this

[Azure]

Thanks for the responses. I'll learn to live with it now that I know it's common.

[itistoday]

Yup, have this too.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by herbsman 

almost all powerbooks and macbook pros have this

Not a true statement.

Not acceptable! You guys got lemons, send them back.

It obviously is a matter of build tolerances. IMO 1/64 inch or maybe 1/32 inch is acceptable, but certainly 1/16 inch or more is not acceptable. The variance on my 17" C2D MBP is visually zero.

-Allen Wicks

[Velocity211]

My Powerbook's screen used to close all the way, but now the right side doesn't close completely anymore. It really isn't a problem, just a little bit annoying to look at.

[Azure]

I went to the apple store tonight, and checked out the MBPs there. All the 15" had the same issue, just on the opposite side of what I have. Maybe it's a difference of whether a left handed person assembled it versus right handed?

[mark.s]

Mine does that too, but on the left-hand side.

I was vaguely concerned initially, but it doesn't really make any difference to my life.

[Wiskedjak]

It's a design flaw. Virtually no product on the market can be manufactured to be "perfect" with costing obscene amounts of money. Most products, however, are designed to hide those imperfections. Apple's products are almost designed to highlight them.

[ghporter]

Not a "design flaw." It's simply part of the way the machine is constructed. I have just shy of 1mm on the right and just over 1mm on the left. SO WHAT? Is there a serious problem because of this, or just a minor fit and finish issue.

Are people going to start complaining about the grain of the case finish being three microns on the left versus 4 microns on the right? It really looks like people are looking for stuff to complain about.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Not a "design flaw." It's simply part of the way the machine is constructed.

It is a design flaw, a properly designed laptop hinge/display wouldn't do this. A friend of mine has a 12" Powerbook and his display closes perfectly and evenly. Apple even acknowledged this issue by adding an additional latch to the MacBook Pros (whereas the PowerBooks just had one), but it still hasn't been a perfect fix it seems.

I have just shy of 1mm on the right and just over 1mm on the left. SO WHAT? Is there a serious problem because of this, or just a minor fit and finish issue.

No one here is claiming that it's a "serious problem", but when you pay several grand for an *Apple* laptop, you expect to get a product that lives up to Apple's legendary appetite for quality and attention to detail. I agree, however, that it's ridiculous for people to expect Apple to get everything right, but when things like this come up I'm not surprised when people complain about it. To bring an age old analogy back, just imagine buying a Ferrari only to find out that the passenger door would jut out a bit when closed, I'm sure you'd be pretty annoyed.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Not a "design flaw." It's simply part of the way the machine is constructed. I have just shy of 1mm on the right and just over 1mm on the left. SO WHAT? Is there a serious problem because of this, or just a minor fit and finish issue.

Are people going to start complaining about the grain of the case finish being three microns on the left versus 4 microns on the right? It really looks like people are looking for stuff to complain about.

It's a design flaw in that the product is designed to a level of perfection not cost-effectively achievable by current manufacturing processes which are not able to achieve fraction-of-a-millimeter perfection.

The design highlights imperfections as opposed to other products which are designed to hide imperfections.

It's not so much that people are looking for stuff to complain about as much as Apple draws attention to things to complain about.

[ghporter]

Perfection is not realizable in a mass-produced item. Period. That's Engineering 101. And if you do buy a Ferrari, you will find that a large part of its inordinate cost is due to hand adjustment of doors, hood, etc. And it still won't be "perfect," just really close.

I spent far too much of my life messing with Mercedes Benz autos in the 1980s. In order to make them quiet on the road, Mercedes mounted EVERYTHING with rubber washers. Nice and quiet-until you install a radio or phone in one. Oh, and by the way, the fit and finish for doors, hood, and trunk lid of a Mercedes Benz was no better than my Honda Civic. The MacBook Pro is NOT a Ferrari, it's a consumer product. I'll bet your refrigerator's doors don't close perfectly, either, but you're not complaining about them...

It takes LOOKING FOR a difference of as little as 1/32", so, Wiskedjak, I believe that you are somehow not happy with an exceptionally well-made, astoundingly powerful and flexible, state-of-the-art laptop, and you have to go searching for some lack of "perfection." If you look for it, you WILL find it.

And again, HOW DOES A DIFFERENCE IN CLOSED LID HEIGHT OF LESS THAN A MILLIMETER AFFECT FUNCTION AND/OR PERFORMANCE OF YOUR COMPUTER??? Further, have you taken these measurements over a period of time, with a variety of closing techniques? I suggest that your lid closes differently every time you close it, and that the latches have a lot to do with how much or little gap is left at either corner.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

And again, HOW DOES A DIFFERENCE IN CLOSED LID HEIGHT OF LESS THAN A MILLIMETER AFFECT FUNCTION AND/OR PERFORMANCE OF YOUR COMPUTER??? Further, have you taken these measurements over a period of time, with a variety of closing techniques? I suggest that your lid closes differently every time you close it, and that the latches have a lot to do with how much or little gap is left at either corner.

Mine has a difference of around 2 or 3 millimeters last I checked. The point is that this is not an unavoidable problem and one that Apple has had time to address. For a laptop that's designed to be aesthetically pleasing, it creates a glaring nuisance. Again, *no one* said anything about it being a functional/performance issue.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by itistoday 

Mine has a difference of around 2 or 3 millimeters last I checked. The point is that this is not an unavoidable problem and one that Apple has had time to address. For a laptop that's designed to be aesthetically pleasing, it creates a glaring nuisance. Again, *no one* said anything about it being a functional/performance issue.

Whatever. You're (and others are too) hung up on this one issue. So tell Apple about it. Return the machine and see what happens-people with mooing and humming and buzzing got something done about that (eventually), so maybe you will too. Good luck to you.

[chipchen]

98% is merely a cosmetic issue that just is. 2% of these are due to the display being warped. Of those, 80% is the fault of the consumer (type of bag they have that puts continual pressure towards the center of the display, like the incase bags that have the power adapters in the pocket.) The other 20% may just have an issue from manufacturing.

For those of you who think that each and every MBP or PB is to be a custom crafted and hand precisioned machine that should fit your every specific guidelines... you should go build your own machines. No other computer company already pays 1/10 of this much attention to detail, and you expect Apple to be able to make each machine without ANY flaws? You cause Apple more time and money than it's worth... go bother HP or something.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Perfection is not realizable in a mass-produced item.

Precisely. And, more manufacturers of mass-produced items design their products knowing that, to hide imperfections. Apple, however, designs for perfection capable manufacturing processes. As a result, their designs draw attention to imperfections. One does not need to look to hard to find the imperfections on an Apple product; imperfections that exist on ALL products, but are instead hidden.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

And again, HOW DOES A DIFFERENCE IN CLOSED LID HEIGHT OF LESS THAN A MILLIMETER AFFECT FUNCTION AND/OR PERFORMANCE OF YOUR COMPUTER??? Further, have you taken these measurements over a period of time, with a variety of closing techniques? I suggest that your lid closes differently every time you close it, and that the latches have a lot to do with how much or little gap is left at either corner.

Of course, these design flaws have absolutely no effect on the performance of the machine. I never claimed they do. And, I've no problems with Apple products. But, neither do I believe Apple designs are beyond criticism. A better design would have hidden the weaknesses of current manufacturing processes rather than highlight them.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Precisely. And, more manufacturers of mass-produced items design their products knowing that, to hide imperfections. Apple, however, designs for perfection capable manufacturing processes. As a result, their designs draw attention to imperfections. One does not need to look to hard to find the imperfections on an Apple product; imperfections that exist on ALL products, but are instead hidden.

Of course, these design flaws have absolutely no effect on the performance of the machine. I never claimed they do. And, I've no problems with Apple products. But, neither do I believe Apple designs are beyond criticism. A better design would have hidden the weaknesses of current manufacturing processes rather than highlight them.

So how about a practical suggestion. Pointing out something that bugs you may make you feel better, but that's all it'll do. How should Apple prevent this in the future? Specifics, please. And how should they make sure that users, as chipchen points out, don't foil their "closer to perfect" plans?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

So how about a practical suggestion. Pointing out something that bugs you may make you feel better, but that's all it'll do. How should Apple prevent this in the future? Specifics, please. And how should they make sure that users, as chipchen points out, don't foil their "closer to perfect" plans?

I believe I've already made a practical suggestion. Don't design products for manufacturing processes that don't exist.

For example, don't develop designs that have edges that are supposed to align perfectly when current manufacturing processes make that next to impossible. Intentionally design overlaps into the product, making it more difficult to spot imperfections, such as existed in all the PowerBook designs up to the current Aluminum design.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer the current PB/MB design to previous designs. I just feel the industrial designers should have done their job with current manufacturing processes in mind, rather than some future/non-existent process that can attain perfect tolerances.

That is, in fact, 50% of what industrial design training is all about; learning the capabilities and weaknesses of current manufacturing materials and processes. The other 50% is making things look cool. The result is making things look cool and manufacturable, according to spec, with today's manufacturing processes.

[wingdo]

My 3 year old PowerBook has gone through 3 screens. ALL have been "off" in the appearance. No one notices but me, and I am beyond caring about it. The three screens were never replaced because of this "issue" but do to other problems.

My brand new C2D MBP also is off. All look about the same as the above picture. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. I think it is more noticable on the Al books just because of the way they are designed. at work we have IMB and Dell laptops. They all look like they are a better fit than the Al series, but if you look very carefully they too have discrepencies between the left and right corners. It's just not noticed like it is on the Apple Books because these machines are all plastic and have varying colors on them to draw your eyes away from where imperfections may occur.

You guys need to get out more. Honestly. Nothing is perfect.

[iREZ]

i believe theres a product out there made by radtech called wildeepz or something like that which used to correct this problem with old 17" pb's. why not get something like that, or some plastic bumpers like i did from ikea...they work great at leveling lids.

[Wiskedjak]

I'm not saying it is a big deal. It wouldn't affect my decision to purchase a MBP and I wouldn't be trying to get Apple to replace it. But, it is a design flaw.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I'm not saying it is a big deal. It wouldn't affect my decision to purchase a MBP and I wouldn't be trying to get Apple to replace it. But, it is a design flaw.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think we all need to stop tearing at each other's throats over this silly issue.

[Azure]

whew... my first post on macnn and i seem to have started a brawl!

The unevenness really isn't a bother, I was just checking to see if it's normal (which it seems to be). I had read somewhere that applecare wouldnt' take care of someone because their laptop wouldn't sit completely flush on the counter and wanted to make sure this wouldn't happen to me if anything went awry with the screen.

Lets get back to loving our MBP's!

[cbrfanatic]

Simple Solution

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by cbrfanatic 

Simple Solution

Who said this thread wasn't going anywhere? Thanks!

[cbrfanatic]

Originally Posted by itistoday 

Who said this thread wasn't going anywhere? Thanks!

No problem.

[wingdo]

Originally Posted by cbrfanatic 

Simple Solution

Damn, where has this been for the last 3 years? Ordered one for each of my books. Totally over priced for what you get ..... but what the heck. Will all be nice neat and even now.

[zaffel]

My MBP 2.0 was off a touch but after having it in my case and closed a few times the problem is now nonexistent.
all in all, the best portable I have ever owned. and I'm one picky s.o.b! Welcome to the community!

[Peligro]

Yeah I would have to agree with ghporter. Mine sticks out a little but it nothing that I am concerned about.

I am more concerned with the random freezes I am getting.

[drewcifer]

personally i am pissed about this issue.

maybe if this was the only design flaw the mbp had i'd let it go but this is one on a long list of imperfections.

for 2700 dollars.

[cliffr39]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

...It takes LOOKING FOR a difference of as little as 1/32", so, Wiskedjak, I believe that you are somehow not happy with an exceptionally well-made, astoundingly powerful and flexible, state-of-the-art laptop, and you have to go searching for some lack of "perfection." If you look for it, you WILL find it.

And again, HOW DOES A DIFFERENCE IN CLOSED LID HEIGHT OF LESS THAN A MILLIMETER AFFECT FUNCTION AND/OR PERFORMANCE OF YOUR COMPUTER??? ...

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Whatever. You're (and others are too) hung up on this one issue...

You seem overly aggressive in this. I didn't see any of these posts actually COMPLAINING (ok sorry there is one at the very bottom of the thread lol) about this. It started out as one person asking if that was normal on their machine.. very common thing for someone to wonder if its "normal" or "defective" and needing servicing.

And it doesn't take "looking for" to notice it. I actually had company over the other night and THEY asked me about it. It just stands out... oh well. Thats what happens when you use alot of straight lines (where lid meets machine), curves (edges) and reflective colours (case in general). Yes this is normal, as I've seen it on Gateway laptops also, but the fact is, it stands out more so people question it.

As for mass production, yes there will ALWAYS be problems with it, but usually not on beauty like these. Example: I never noticed something just jump out at me from the iPod's.

Relax a bit, no one is saying Apple made crap here with these great laptops Even with this slight concern people have questioned, it still rocks any PC base laptop!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by cliffr39 

You seem overly aggressive in this. I didn't see any of these posts actually COMPLAINING (ok sorry there is one at the very bottom of the thread lol) about this. It started out as one person asking if that was normal on their machine.. very common thing for someone to wonder if its "normal" or "defective" and needing servicing.

And it doesn't take "looking for" to notice it. I actually had company over the other night and THEY asked me about it. It just stands out... oh well. Thats what happens when you use alot of straight lines (where lid meets machine), curves (edges) and reflective colours (case in general). Yes this is normal, as I've seen it on Gateway laptops also, but the fact is, it stands out more so people question it.

As for mass production, yes there will ALWAYS be problems with it, but usually not on beauty like these. Example: I never noticed something just jump out at me from the iPod's.

Relax a bit, no one is saying Apple made crap here with these great laptops Even with this slight concern people have questioned, it still rocks any PC base laptop!

Actually, I spent a lot of time commenting on posts that were VERY aggressive about their laptop lids being slightly less than perfect. There are a LOT or "complaints" in this thread-tons of "why does Apple make crap" noises. And note that in the post you quoted, I said "It takes LOOKING FOR a difference of as little as 1/32"," which I stand behind; I doubt your visitors commented on such a small difference and I'l bet your laptop is one that has quite a noticeable difference between the height of the two sides.

I had thought this one had been laid to rest-there is a product out there that lets you cushion the two sides of the lid to even them out when closed, and I started a new thread on how to do the same thing without spending $13-$17 just the other day. I DO get frustrated when people come here simply to complain about what is typically a VERY minor issue, in part because Apple products are so far above everyone else's in terms of quality (let alone design!) that it seems like saying "it's not perfect, solid gold and free".

Oh, and Welcome to the MacNN Forums!

[wingdo]

Originally Posted by drewcifer 

personally i am pissed about this issue.

maybe if this was the only design flaw the mbp had i'd let it go but this is one on a long list of imperfections.

for 2700 dollars.

What's the "long list" of imperfections? So my lid is off by a small amount. Unless I set it at eye level with the lid closed, I never see it anyway. The Dell laptop I have at work costs more than my C2D MBP did and it's a freaking piece of junk.

[malone]

I recently bought a MBP with the uneven lid problem. I'm admittedly a pretty anal guy when it comes to things like this, so I did find it very distracting (particularly since none of my PC laptops had this issue). Sure, it's not a functional problem and doesn't affect system performance, but to me it was like having a BMW whose trunk wouldn't close evenly while the Hyundai Pony and Pontiac Azteks would.

Anyways, it bothered me enough to bring to an Apple Store Genius and risk being laughed or scoffed at. Much to my surprise, he took one good look at it, didn't laugh at me, told me it's a common problem (indeed it is), and 15 minutes later, the tech in the back had it all fixed up! All nice and even now! I can't even begin to describe the kind of anxiety it lifted from me.

I guess the moral of my story is that, yes, it's just a cosmetic issue, but if it's as distracting and bothersome to you as it is to me, bring it into your local Apple Store and ask if they can do something about it. Maybe they will, like they did for me, or maybe they won't, but it sure doesn't hurt to ask.