[torsoboy]

Let me explain the business first so that you know what the logo is for... our business is helping people more easily connect to contract professionals (painters, plumbers, carpenters, landscape people, etc., basically anyone that does contract work).

The basic flow of it is that Joe comes onto our site, clicks the 'bid request' button, puts in the details of what he needs (ie. he needs some trees pruned), puts in when he needs it done by and his basic budget restrictions. Joe then hits the send bid button and every contract professional that does tree pruning in the area gets a message with the details of the job Joe needs done. Some of them are busy and don't have time before Joe needs it done, so they just delete it or ignore it, and others think they can do a good job and have it done on time so they shoot back a quick message to Joe telling him their fees, etc. At the end of the day Joe then checks his bid requests and see five tree pruners that responded and along with their bid details; Joe also sees ratings on the professionals that others in the area have given them and is able to then make his decision and hire whomever he likes. It's a win-win situation... Joe gets people competing for his job and all of the professionals in town gets to know about and compete for the jobs that become available that they never would have know about otherwise. Professionals with higher ratings (better service) get rewarded with potentially more business and the Joes in the city get to know more about who they are hiring.

So with all that being said, this is the logo we have:


What kind of constructive criticism do you guys have for it (aside from the circles not being centered correctly)? Realizing that the general logo has to remain fairly close to what it is, what small changes would you make to improve it? I know that saying it has to remain fairly close to what it is kind of limits what can be done, but if you could make some small changes, what would they be?

[iMOTOR]

Great concept. As for the logo, it seems little institutional for a site you would use to hire painters plumbers etc. By institutional, I'm referring to the kind of logo you would see for site that hires accountants and consultants.

For starters, I think a brighter color (orange or yellow for example) against grey would help, instead of dark blue.

[red rocket]

At the smaller size, the grey text is a bit hard to read.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

Great concept. As for the logo, it seems little institutional for a site you would use to hire painters plumbers etc. By institutional, I'm referring to the kind of logo you would see for site that hires accountants and consultants.

For starters, I think a brighter color (orange or yellow for example) against grey would help, instead of dark blue.

I agree, though I’d disagree with both orange and yellow. A lighter blue or green, perhaps.

And as red rocket said, the small grey text is very hard to read. In the small version, I’d make the text wider and the letter spacing less.

Other than that, I think it’s a very strong and efficient concept. The image is pictographic and simple, yet convey the message well. I didn’t read any of your text, just looked at the image, and my immediate guess at what kind of business this is was correct (based on the text, which I obviously read afterwards).

[Wiskedjak]

Their heads aren't centred over their bodies; makes it look like they're tilting their heads. Was that intended? If so, I would increase the offset a little to exaggerate the effect and make it look less like an oversight.

(whoops ... just read your text)

[andi*pandi]

it looks nice, but there's nothing that says local to me, and I think that's what you want to emphasize... or the trades.

[voth]

I agree with iMOTOR you need to give it some color, a rainbow red, green, yellow, etc. would nice. I would avoid grey for text, use something black or any other dark color you don't want the text to bleed into the background.

[olePigeon]

Needs more red.

[torsoboy]

Thanks guys... keep those ideas coming! I'm at work now, but at the end of the day I will go over everything and give your suggestions a try. Thanks for taking the time to make suggestions.

[art_director]

as others have noted, further exploration of the palette is warranted. i'd reject the offers of red, etc. and discover your own solution.

typographically i would look at trying the tagline in sentence case and, if you're going to use punctuation, use it consistently. iow, add a period at the end of the sentence.

positioning of the three 'people' is driving me mad. either have them all on the same baseline or, better yet, move the two back 'people' up slightly to better communicate perspective / distance behind the primary figure.

width of the tagline is close to being even with the width of the logo. push this one way or the other -- either match it to the logo or decrease the size. it feels unresloved currently.

there are some character relationships in both the tagline and the wordmark that i find awkward but that's quite subjective.

other than that i think you're on to a solid logo treatment.

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by art_director 

positioning of the three 'people' is driving me mad. either have them all on the same baseline or, better yet, move the two back 'people' up slightly to better communicate perspective / distance behind the primary figure.

I agree. this might make the "local" thing come through more.

[Atheist]

In general... I like it. However based on the concept, I think the "people" are too professional looking. As someone said earlier... they look more like accountants. Since they are supposed to represent painters, carpenters, plumbers you may want to have the "people" holding implements of their profession. I also think the blue and grey is way too bland. You might try oranges and yellows as they seem to carry the implication of work (e.g. construction signs).

[torsoboy]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. We have submitted a lot of your ideas to the designers for them to revise the logo. In a couple of days we should have the revised version and I'll post that here for further comments when it comes in. The ideas we took from your comments:

1) Center the heads
2) New color set
3) Spread the bottom line's text to match the width of the topline possibly using slightly wider text in place of bigger gaps between the text
4) Move the back people slightly up to give proper perspective

Thanks again... see you back here in a couple of days.

[art_director]

i regret responding to your post. coming to this forum with the work of a designer for critique was unethical and underhanded. either you're a complete tool or you're a55-kiss junior a.e. without a clue.

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by art_director 

coming to this forum with the work of a designer for critique was unethical and underhanded.

wow. All I can say is that earlier in my career I would have agreed with you whole heartedly, how dare he disrespect his designer like this.

But as I get deeper into the business side of things, I tend to see things from both sides of the desk so to speak. From what little I know about torsoboy (please correct me if I am wrong), it seems he is a business person first and foremost. From the perspective of someone who reads Fast Company as opposed to someone who reads Communication Arts, it would be underhanded not to seek outside advice from experts. Certainly you know better than anyone, how critical a mark is to the success of a corporate identity.

While it may have been unethical to seek advice on this forum, it means torsoboy trusts our advice, more perhaps than on some other forum.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by art_director 

i regret responding to your post. coming to this forum with the work of a designer for critique was unethical and underhanded. either you're a complete tool or you're a55-kiss junior a.e. without a clue.

You gave some great advice, so I'm sorry that you regret giving it.

I would agree with your opinion on this if I had hired a professional designer to do this for my company, but I didn't hire a professional designer. I am getting it created by the hourly wage employees at TheLogoLoft.com and I think they can use all the help they can get in making a decent logo (you would know what I mean if you saw their first four concepts). They pump out like 100 logos a day so I think getting some extra input on the one logo concept I thought they did a good job on (out of eight) is a good idea. These people don't care about my company personally and I know a lot of people on this board have way better design skills than they do so I thought it was a good idea to ask for some advice for the first set of their "unlimited revisions". To me since they have "unlimited revisions" as one of their selling points that seems to be asking for people to tell them what they want changed and how to make it better. I'm sorry if you thought I was the designer, I had no intention of coming off that way. I am a developer through and through with a succesfull business and I am just trying to get off on the right foot with this new business by having a nice looking logo/identity to start.

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

While it may have been unethical to seek advice on this forum, it means torsoboy trusts our advice, more perhaps than on some other forum.

I'm not sure why it would be unethical on this board; what is this board supposed to be limited to? By the name of it (Art & Graphic Design) I thought all things related graphic design were free topics.

And I really do trust all of your advice. I have seen some pretty amazing things from the members of this board and if they/you are willing to pass some advice on to me then I am more than happy to have it.

Art_Directory, just a quick question... being that you are able to see so many things that you think should be adjusted in the logo do you think that it would be better for a company to *not* ask for opinions on their logo and just go with what their designer comes up with regardless of what it looks like?

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I'm not sure why it would be unethical on this board; what is this board supposed to be limited to? By the name of it (Art & Graphic Design) I thought all things related graphic design were free topics.

art_director will certainly have a chance to qualify his statement, but I would imagine that most of art_director's contempt stems from the fact that this forum is mostly comprised of working professional graphic artists, so posting a design piece on a forum like this one is the same as having a designer judged by a jury of his peers. However, I highly doubt anyone professional on this forum would consider someone working for the "LogoLoft" a peer.

That aside, even if you had posted the work of a bona fide professional, art_director would be naive in believing that a client of his wouldn't shop his comps around for advice behind his back. It's something that business people do, that's why we do our best and hope our work is judged by qualified critics, and not some marcom blo-hard.

[andi*pandi]

^"marcom blo-hard" excellent term btw.

most people post logos/designs here for critique of their own work, and we provide those criticisms as a favor to one of our own. If it was someone else's design it should have been made clear--otherwise, you are paying the logoLoft to make the designs, but really getting art director's art direction for free. I don't think you meant it that way, and I'm not sure how AD feels, but I think I would feel that way. Better to come up out front and say "i only had budget for this designer, what do you guys think of their work?"

Another issue is the asking around of random people feedback on a paid designers work... where I work there is far too much outside intervention (people ask their spouses, children, whatever, and trust those opinions more than the professionals) so design by committee is the inevitable result. Oh, and designer self-esteem plummeting. I'm not bitter.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

most people post logos/designs here for critique of their own work, and we provide those criticisms as a favor to one of our own. If it was someone else's design it should have been made clear--otherwise, you are paying the logoLoft to make the designs, but really getting art director's art direction for free. I don't think you meant it that way, and I'm not sure how AD feels, but I think I would feel that way. Better to come up out front and say "i only had budget for this designer, what do you guys think of their work?"

Another issue is the asking around of random people feedback on a paid designers work... where I work there is far too much outside intervention (people ask their spouses, children, whatever, and trust those opinions more than the professionals) so design by committee is the inevitable result. Oh, and designer self-esteem plummeting. I'm not bitter.

I see what you mean with that. I haven't been to this forum much because I am not a designer and I was just thinking that it was for everyone with deign questions, etc. I know people are giving advice at no charge.. I just thought it was a courtesy to all MacNNers and not specifically to the professional designers on MacNN. Now I know better.

So does this mean you guys aren't interested in how it turns out? Should I just sneak on out of this forum now that you know that I am not the person that is making the logo?

[peeb]

Is there any way to put the stylized people in overalls, and give one a wrench, one a paintbrush, and the other something else, or would that look too cluttered?

[andi*pandi]

well, I'm curious now. And not above being snarky to the folks at logoHut! So go ahead and post the revisions.

[skew]

Have to agree with some of the other posts, that its a bit dry. You're a friendly local outfit and this doesn't come across at all. I'd start over and get them to focus on your USP.

I run a design outfit that brands youth and media companies. This logo doesn't fit the brief IMHO. It could be for anything involving people. Colour would help as others have pointed out.

As for posting on this forum for advice, tricky but then....why not? Your paying the $$ why not get help from wherever you like?

Good luck.

SKEW

[Rumor]

After taking a look at it, I think it could use some lens flare to make it pop.

All joking aside, the color scheme, people and font reminds me an awful lot of myspace.

[art_director]

I give my opinions openly and freely to designers and aspiring designers on this forum. I do so because I like to give back to a community and profession that's treated me so well. I like to help young people because we've all been there and know how difficult it is to start in business -- especially this business. IMO that's the crux of this forum.

IMO places like Logo Hut, or whatever it's called, are cheapening the world of design monetarily and from a quality point of view. It looks like you got lucky with them.

Asking around for opinions about design work is done often. In my opinion a good client has the ability to make decisions without getting a consensus. Design by committee is largely crap. Taste elusive.

Finally, as noted by another poster, you weren't up front about the origin of the logo or your intent. You were using this forum as a focus group. That left a bad taste in my mouth.

Good luck with the logo.

[Photo678]

Originally Posted by art_director 

IMO places like Logo Hut, or whatever it's called, are cheapening the world of design monetarily and from a quality point of view. It looks like you got lucky with them.

I swear that they use something like "business card composer" or something to do their work...i fully agree with you.

Originally Posted by art_director 

Finally, as noted by another poster, you weren't up front about the origin of the logo or your intent. You were using this forum as a focus group. That left a bad taste in my mouth.

As was stated, not his intent, but still fishy nonetheless +1

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Logopond

[loomitz]

i see a little detail in the text, it can be better why yo dont put the acender of the L at the same level, as th acender of the F Example:
http://www.loomitz.com/local.jpg

[KeriVit]

Originally Posted by loomitz 

i see a little detail in the text, it can be better why yo dont put the acender of the L at the same level, as th acender of the F Example:
http://www.loomitz.com/local.jpg

Huh? I read that 3 times and still don't know what it says.

[Oisín]

I’m two times ahead of you, but in the same situation...

[art_director]

Originally Posted by KeriVit 

Huh? I read that 3 times and still don't know what it says.

I tried ingesting illegal substances and consuming mass quantites of a certain malt beverage and re-reading it. The post still doesn't make sense to me either.

[red rocket]

I think I worked it out.

loomitz's picture is different from the one torsoboy posted. In loomitz's picture, the vertical bar (the ‘acender’ in his lingo) in the big ‘L’ in ‘Locals’ is now vertically aligned with the other ‘acender’, the vertical bar in the ‘F’ in ‘FIND’.

[JonoMarshall]

^ Typography 101, somebody pass him a degree please.

[art_director]

christ . . . it's all about the tagline allignment with respect to the horizontal width of the wordmark. now i get it. the liberal use of the term ascender is what threw me.

for the record

[andi*pandi]

we already said that the tagline should be justified to the width of the name, didn't we?

[art_director]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

we already said that the tagline should be justified to the width of the name, didn't we?

weeks ago.

[Timo]

You don't need the comma in the tagline. It's better (dare I say "faster") without it.

FWIW I agree with art_director's reactions -- you could have been more upfront with the first post. He is right that design by committee doesn't work.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I think I worked it out.

loomitz's picture is different from the one torsoboy posted. In loomitz's picture, the vertical bar (the ‘acender’ in his lingo) in the big ‘L’ in ‘Locals’ is now vertically aligned with the other ‘acender’, the vertical bar in the ‘F’ in ‘FIND’.

Wow. Good sleuthing skills.

And, having noted the differences, I actually like the original more. The fact that the tagline is slightly narrower than the name gives the logo a certain amount of harmony, since the three little men at the top are narrower as well. Looks too bottom-heavy with equal widths, I think.

[KeriVit]

For the love of Pete. I know what a friggin ascender is. It doesn't mean that post made any sense. Andi got it right tho. Jusfication.

[KeriVit]

P.s. Cmon now everybody go give feedback on my ad...

[greenamp]

My opinion is that you should approach this as a combination mark, and find a way to incorporate the three people into the name typography. ie, replace the "i" and "l" with the people shapes, etc.

[art_director]

Puleeeeeeeeeeze lock this thread.

[yugyug]

Interesting thread.

Funny that such a big fuss was made about the identity of the original poster - I thought it was obvious when I read the very first post that it was not a designer. Look at the evidence; use of the pronoun "we", an overly detailed explanation of the business side of the company, and last but not least the most overt evidence, the misalignment of the central figures "head" - if the original poster was a professional designer he would have just fixed it when he noticed it, it would have only taken 10 seconds. Different story if you need contact the designer for such a minor revision.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by yugyug 

I thought it was obvious when I read the very first post that it was not a designer. Look at the evidence; use of the pronoun "we", an overly detailed explanation of the business side of the company, and last but not least the most overt evidence, the misalignment of the central figures "head" - if the original poster was a professional designer he would have just fixed it when he noticed it, it would have only taken 10 seconds. Different story if you need contact the designer for such a minor revision.

'We' would and could be used if a design team had worked on the project. Which, BTW, can be common for corporate identity projects.

Any designer worth his / her salt has a good grip on their clients' businesses. Along with a solid design should come concrete rational which, when done by professionals, includes an 'overly detailed explanation of the business side of the company.' Anything less is the hallmark of an amateur.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by art_director 

'We' would and could be used if a design team had worked on the project. Which, BTW, can be common for corporate identity projects.

Any designer worth his / her salt has a good grip on their clients' businesses. Along with a solid design should come concrete rational which, when done by professionals, includes an 'overly detailed explanation of the business side of the company.' Anything less is the hallmark of an amateur.

Spot on.

[yugyug]

I said that the explanation was "overly" detailed - detailed is good, "overly" detailed is not good, hence the use of the expression "overly" - anything less than a basic understanding of this is the hallmark of an amateur understanding of english!

[NobleMatt]

ok i'll admit i havent read what everone else has but but just from looking at the image im gonna say agree with sommet i scan read somewhere about it looking a bt too 'institutional' and it instantly reminds me of MSN and mySpace that logo concept has been done alot. i would like to see them a bit brighter with like a plastic glow to them and possible one dressed as a builder (e.g. tool belt and hard hat) and then some other professions for the others.

Matt

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by crazyreaper 

ok i'll admit i havent read what everone else has but but just from looking at the image im gonna say agree with sommet i scan read somewhere about it looking a bt too 'institutional' and it instantly reminds me of MSN and mySpace that logo concept has been done alot. i would like to see them a bit brighter with like a plastic glow to them and possible one dressed as a builder (e.g. tool belt and hard hat) and then some other professions for the others.

Matt

Wow, I left this thread to die two months ago and it just kept going!

Thanks for your comments everyone. It turns out that TheLogoLoft.com sucks rocks (anyone surprised?) and has HORRIBLE customer support. According to their terms I was supposed to get unlimited revisions with a 3-4 day turnaround time. Well, let me tell you... they do not keep with their terms and their "designers" should not be given that title.

I have no idea how they pulled this design out of their butts, but each of their other seven concepts they gave us was very very bad, and when we decided to pick this one for them to start the revision process on the first revision took a full 7 business days (the task was to 1) center the heads, 2) align the tagline with the name, and 3) give us some alternate color options), and their revisions were horrid. Absolutely horrid. Think of the worst coloring combinations possible, and then add something worse to it.

The second revision took a full 10 business days (the only task was to go back to the original colors since it was apparent that they did not have any design skills worth waiting for), and the only reason we got that one finished in 10 business days was because we threatened to claim fraud to credit card company.

After that fiasco we were tired of their lack of email response, long turnaround time, and lack of design skills so we asked for our final files and figured that we could have another designer do the revisions for us locally and get a better result. But even that task of getting us our files took more than a week to get a response from, and we had to resort back to the credit card threat once again. Blah. So we finally got the files (AI, PSD, TIF, GIF), but they are very bad... colors different from one area to the next, misaligned text, uneven shapes, artifacts all over the transparent areas, etc. I tried contacting their customer support to get them to clean up the files a bit, but have never heard back from them since.

So anyway, we don't recommend that company to anyone. I don't know how they can legally claim "Over 16,000 satisfied business owners worldwide. Custom identity solutions in 3 business days." I bet they would be hard pressed to find very many "satisfied business owners", and even harder pressed to find anything they completed in 3 business days.

I never thought that getting a logo would be such a pain... Guess I should probably go to a local pro instead of an internet logo site.

Oh, and if you want to post your own versions of what you think would look better (colors, etc.) please feel free!

[art_director]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Oh, and if you want to post your own versions of what you think would look better (colors, etc.) please feel free!

And with that I suggest this thread be locked down tight.

[bluedog]

You get what you pay for with all things in life. In this way "Karma" certainly works.

Here's my free idea for a logo. I couldn't be bothered looking at your description of needs or what your business really is about, but hopefully this works.

At least its free!

[bluedog]

Anyone else wish to chime in with a free idea?!