Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

wallinbl · Oct 11, 2007, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

Watch the last 5 minutes of pretty much any NCAA mens basketball tournament game and then come back and explain to me how exciting soccer is.

Timeout!
Foul!
Missed shot!
Timeout!
Basket!
Foul!
Timeout!
Basket!
Foul!
Timeout!
Foul!
Timeout!
Foul!

Play the damn game and quit stopping all the time. The last two minutes of a basketball game takes like 20 minutes to play. The last 10 minutes of a close soccer game is just as exciting and doesn't involve 15 car commercials because, in soccer, they're actually playing that whole time.

I grew up in Lexington, KY, and I am a college basketball fan, however, the fouling and timeouts drive me nuts. I really hate it when a team that's down by 10 is still fouling as if they're going to go 5 for 5 while the other team goes 0 for 10 from the line.

wallinbl · Oct 11, 2007, 07:40 PM

Maybe you NFL people are just entertained by the ads or something. Watching an NFL game takes about 200 minutes. Watching a soccer game takes 110 minutes. If the NFL game ends up 21-14, you've had 5 scoring plays in 200 minutes, or a score every 40 minutes. If the soccer game ends 2-1, you've had 3 scoring plays in 110 minutes, or a score every 37 minutes. In soccer, they were playing for 90 minutes. In the NFL, they were playing for about 20 minutes (plays are actually pretty short, time wise, and the clock runs between most plays).

SpaceMonkey · Oct 11, 2007, 11:53 PM

Television is also just not a good medium for soccer. The field is too big. Most of the time, there are just a couple of players in the shot. So all you see is a player dribbling, then he or she passes to someone off-screen. Camera pans, repeat.

There might be tons of exciting creativity and strategy going on somewhere else on the field, but none of it's on camera.

Cipher13 · Oct 12, 2007, 01:33 AM

I really don't get NFL. What's with the armour? I mean seriously... wimps.

Jawbone54 · Oct 12, 2007, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Television is also just not a good medium for soccer. The field is too big. Most of the time, there are just a couple of players in the shot. So all you see is a player dribbling, then he or she passes to someone off-screen. Camera pans, repeat.

There might be tons of exciting creativity and strategy going on somewhere else on the field, but none of it's on camera.

Baseball.

Of course, in baseball, the only thing to see away from the action is an outfielder chewing on gum and looking REALLY bored.

Shaddim · Oct 12, 2007, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Cipher13

I really don't get NFL. What's with the armour? I mean seriously... wimps.

It's like Rugby, only the guys are bigger, stronger, and faster. If the Canberra Vikings hit as hard as the Minnesota Vikings, they'd wear pads and helmets too.

macintologist · Oct 12, 2007, 02:11 AM

Ronaldihno is way cooler than Reggie Bush.

Ruud van Nistelrooy is way cooler than Michael Vick.

Cipher13 · Oct 12, 2007, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

It's like Rugby, only the guys are bigger, stronger, and faster. If the Canberra Vikings hit as hard as the Minnesota Vikings, they'd wear pads and helmets too.

Canberra Raiders, that is.

Bigger, sure. Stronger? Faster? Hit harder? That I'm not so sure of. It also means they could take harder blows, being bigger. Your point doesn't hold.

Anyway, the Raiders are a Rugby League team, which isn't nearly as rough as AFL.

Shaddim · Oct 12, 2007, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by Cipher13

Canberra Raiders, that is.

Bigger, sure. Stronger? Faster? Hit harder? That I'm not so sure of. It also means they could take harder blows, being bigger. Your point doesn't hold.

Anyway, the Raiders are a Rugby League team, which isn't nearly as rough as AFL.

Bollocks. Even with pads someone usually gets carried off a football field each game. The fact is, NFL players are so much bigger, stronger, faster, and hit harder (they do, there's no doubt). I've seen professional Rugby players, they're of a decent size, but nothing like a 350lb lineman who can also run the 40 in 4.8 seconds. Also, they don't train, or abuse medicine/hormones, like guys in the NFL. Bigger also doesn't mean they take punishment as well, joints give out over time due to the stress of carrying around so much more mass. There's not a pro football veteran in the world that doesn't have knee/shoulder/back problems, most are almost crippled by the time they retire, due to the stress of practice and play.

It's a multi-billion dollar industry where the average player is worth millions and has a shelf life of 5-10 years. It's going to be much more brutal than anything else out there.

and, fwiw, it IS the Canberra Vikings. Not that I'm familiar with them, but I did hear their name on ESPN the other day.

Canberra Vikings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shaddim · Oct 12, 2007, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by macintologist

Ronaldihno is way cooler than Reggie Bush.

Ruud van Nistelrooy is way cooler than Michael Vick.

That isn't saying very much, Bush and Vick are both idiots.

Kevin · Oct 12, 2007, 06:21 AM

I wonder how many Americans actually voted for the 3rd option.......

As far as not liking it. I dislike it equally as much as I do any sport considering "American"

As to why it's not more popular here? I would say option 4, the winning option is the correct response. The people that are sports fans simply now have a hard time keeping up with the sports we have NOW.

Some people take sports a bit too seriously IMHO. One of the MAIN problems with American schools is the fact that athletic sports teams get more funding/promotion than scholastic ones.

Graviton · 06:48 AM

Not being American, I really have no idea. It's the worlds most popular sport. It spans all cultures and classes and is accessible to almost everyone, from the riches kids to the very poorest.

Americans are more than welcome to jump in at anytime, but prepare to get your asses kicked by your south American neighbours.

Shaddim · Oct 12, 2007, 07:59 AM

It's so globally popular because it requires so little equipment to play, all you need is a ball.

Kevin · Oct 12, 2007, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

It's so globally popular because it requires so little equipment to play, all you need is a ball.

Or a coconut. Or a infidel's HEAD!

SpaceMonkey · Oct 12, 2007, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Baseball.

Of course, in baseball, the only thing to see away from the action is an outfielder chewing on gum and looking REALLY bored.

Well, most of the time, the biggest part of baseball is the pitcher-batter duel, which is perfectly captured by cameras.

theDreamer · Oct 12, 2007, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Uh, no.

This is a typical soccer game:

Pass

dawdle dawdle dawdle

pass

dawdle

pass

pass

pass

goes to shoot and misses

(by now 42 minutes have passed)

I tried liking it, it doesn't work for me.

I have played and watched soccer (football) since I was four years old, I only quit a few years after I got into high school because of to many other commitments.
Though your description of soccer is some what true, it does not take 42 minutes to do that. Also I could say the same thing about any sport on television at any time that what you described is what is going on in Basketball, Football, Baseball, Hockey (hard but can be done), Golf, etc.

I think people do not care to watch soccer (football) because they do not understand the game, most people I talk to just think all the guys are doing is passing the ball back and forth and standing on their hands doing nothing. This is true for many American teams, but watch the euro league or the Mexican league soccer and you will find there games are much more passionate and thrilling than American soccer. I do enjoy watching the American soccer, but I think it comes down to that "Americans" have not seen the sport played properly.

TheWOAT · Oct 12, 2007, 11:41 AM

Besides the dozen or more other sports in the US, and the lack of gambling options with soccer... WHO CARES? Why does it matter if the US doesnt love soccer as much as the rest of the world? Its interesting to talk about sure, but at the end of the day why should some one in Lichtenstein care or not if I like soccer? The rest of the world can use the metric system and love soccer, and the US will not. It has no affect on anything. Soccer is great sport, but so are many other sports. What exactly are we missing out on?

SpaceMonkey · Oct 12, 2007, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

What exactly are we missing out on?

The smell of your own farts. Duh.

wallinbl · Oct 12, 2007, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

Besides the dozen or more other sports in the US, and the lack of gambling options with soccer... WHO CARES?

I do. I'm an American and I'd like to have some good soccer available to watch at normal hours. I'd like to see soccer covered on SportsCenter. One of my favorite things about traveling outside the US is that I actually get to watch soccer and see soccer be covered on SportsCenter.

Buckaroo · Oct 12, 2007, 09:13 PM

I prefer female mud wrestling. Now that's a sport.

Just kidding, I don't watch a whole bunch of sports, if I did, it'd be Nascar racing, Drag racing, and then maybe Baseball.

Soccer is just too boring.

Cipher13 · Oct 13, 2007, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Bollocks. Even with pads someone usually gets carried off a football field each game. The fact is, NFL players are so much bigger, stronger, faster, and hit harder (they do, there's no doubt). I've seen professional Rugby players, they're of a decent size, but nothing like a 350lb lineman who can also run the 40 in 4.8 seconds. Also, they don't train, or abuse medicine/hormones, like guys in the NFL. Bigger also doesn't mean they take punishment as well, joints give out over time due to the stress of carrying around so much more mass. There's not a pro football veteran in the world that doesn't have knee/shoulder/back problems, most are almost crippled by the time they retire, due to the stress of practice and play.

It's a multi-billion dollar industry where the average player is worth millions and has a shelf life of 5-10 years. It's going to be much more brutal than anything else out there.

and, fwiw, it IS the Canberra Vikings. Not that I'm familiar with them, but I did hear their name on ESPN the other day.

Canberra Vikings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You're obviously not going to listen to whatever I say, so stay tucked into your little delusion.

And for what it's worth, I was talking about Rugby League, not Rugby Union, in which case it is indeed the Canberra Raiders. I've lived here and had to put up with these ridiculous sports for 23 years, so don't second guess me on team names.

Union isn't nearly as rough as League.

Kevin · Oct 13, 2007, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by pooka

I dunno. I love playing soccer. Out of all the sports I played growing up, I found it to be the most demanding and personally rewarding. Aside from rugby, the level of brutality that can be reached is as close to battle as you can get. American football, hockey, etc lose a bit of that with the equipment and bear like size of more serious players.

I raced BMX in the 80s for 4-5 years. It got very brutal. I still have a back injury to this day from a wreck I had when I was 12. All 7 of us crashed together going down a steep hill because two extremely aggressive kids started hitting each other with their bikes. A end of a handlebar came and smacked me straight in the middle of my back. It hurt a bit then, but I didn't REALLY start feeling it till I was 28/30.

Originally Posted by Cipher13

You're obviously not going to listen to whatever I say, so stay tucked into your little delusion.

In other words, Cipher didn't have anything to really come back with, so he made an ad-hominem attack. Typical of old school Cipher.

Kevin · Oct 13, 2007, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Powerbook

One day I'm going to invent "Amaracan Megaball!". The games will end 32637:4234 and 50% of the losing team will be shot. The winning team will be pelted with gold bullions and each of their wifes will get an additional pair of fake boobs.
All live on national TV.

PB.

That sounds more like Japanese game shows.

Cipher13 · Oct 13, 2007, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

In other words, Cipher didn't have anything to really come back with, so he made an ad-hominem attack. Typical of old school Cipher.

No, I simply realise that debating the point would be fruitless. It's an argument with little evidence to support either side, and to be honest, I hate football of all kinds (apart from soccer), so don't really care.

Kevin · Oct 13, 2007, 08:11 AM

What was the reason for the ad-hominem attack that went along with it?

Cipher13 · Oct 13, 2007, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

What was the reason for the ad-hominem attack that went along with it?

Why waste an opportunity to be punitive and truthful at the same time?

Kevin · Oct 13, 2007, 09:00 AM

I would have labeled that something more along the lines of IMHO, or baseless accusations.

Usually personal attacks in replies come from the bottom feeder of the bucket. From what I have experienced in the days of teh internets.

abbaZaba · Oct 13, 2007, 10:40 AM

Soccer is popular everywhere but America. Why, you ask? because Americans like when things happen.

Achewood - July 20, 2007

Kevin · Oct 13, 2007, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by abbaZaba

Soccer is popular everywhere but America. Why, you ask?

Really? Everywhere? And like others said, soccer is a popular sport that is PLAYED here in the US. After all the coined term "soccer mom" came from the good ole US.

Those that are interested in Sports are usually interested because of tradition. And family passing down said tradition from generation to generation. That is how soccer became so popular elsewhere.

Well in the US, our tradition is baseball for the most part, and football. So soccer simply isn't "traditional"

Maybe one day it will be. It's pretty much as simple as that.

Having said that, I am not a fan of any sport. So this comes from an unbiased source.

ShortcutToMoncton · Oct 13, 2007, 12:16 PM

I'd like to point out that, while I doubt it's a reason soccer isn't popular in North America in general, the absolutely pathetic diving is probably the main deterrent from watching soccer for me. (Note: I watch soccer all the time; it's just one thing that really pisses me off.)

As most soccer fans here know, the recent diving incident with Milan's Dida is just another absolutely pathetic example of the seeming shamelessness of most soccer players in European leagues. It's painful for me to watch a game and constantly see players get tripped, roll around in apparent agony for 20 seconds, and then jump back on their feet for the free kick or after a card's been given. It's downright pathetic, and it really pisses me off that governing bodies have taken almost no steps to try and eliminate this behaviour from the game.

Amusing Soccer Dives Video

greg

MacosNerd · Oct 13, 2007, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by abbaZaba

Soccer is popular everywhere but America. Why, you ask? because Americans like when things happen.

It seems popular with the kids, but only until they get old enough to play baseball/football. My nephews played it for years, that is until they were old enough to play baseball (not the t-ball stuff but the real game). While it is popular to play here, it seems to be a filler activity until the kids can move on.

Kevin · 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

Amusing Soccer Dives Video

greg

This thread was worth it just for that video clip.

I could imagine if American football teams acted like this... And they actually get HIT hard.

TheWOAT · Oct 13, 2007, 02:24 PM

If you want to see decent soccer, I guess Univision and Telemundo on Sundays (Mexican league) are the easiest way to go. It would have been nice if some American cities teams were incorporated into that league (with some revenue sharing and salary cap) to give the US some quality soccer..: Although, most of the poeple I know think Mexican soccer is fixed and that soccer is hella boring (not all inhabitants of soccer loving countries love soccer..SHOCKER!!!)

Side note... I watched some International basketball (league play, where Anthony Parker and Sarunas Jaseckevisick (sp) were playing) and I found that style quite boring... The wide lane and short 3 pointer seems to allow less athletic and skilled players do well in that league. As bad as the NBA can be, at least I know those are the worlds best athletes (unlike Euro league BBall).
Sarunas is on his 3rd team, and cant find any playing time... He cant guard a folding chair..

Buckaroo · Oct 13, 2007, 02:34 PM

The only sport more boring than Soccer is Golf. How can people sit around watching Golf. I'd be more fun to actually go out and play golf, then to watch it.

I think I recall hearing something about some big Soccer player coming here to Los Angeles. I don't know what it was all about. Something about him turning out to be a dud or something like that.

wallinbl · Oct 13, 2007, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

The only sport more boring than Soccer is Golf. How can people sit around watching Golf. I'd be more fun to actually go out and play golf, then to watch it.

You must have forgotten about baseball. And, with any sport, playing is more fun that watching.

cjrivera · Oct 13, 2007, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

And, with any sport, playing is more fun that watching.

I'd rather watch sumo wrestling...

SpaceMonkey · 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

The only sport more boring than Soccer is Golf. How can people sit around watching Golf. I'd be more fun to actually go out and play golf, then to watch it.

Golf is a game that certainly takes skill to be very good at it, but it is not a sport, any more than air hockey or billiards is a sport.

Shaddim · Oct 13, 2007, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Cipher13

You're obviously not going to listen to whatever I say, so stay tucked into your little delusion.

And for what it's worth, I was talking about Rugby League, not Rugby Union, in which case it is indeed the Canberra Raiders. I've lived here and had to put up with these ridiculous sports for 23 years, so don't second guess me on team names.

Union isn't nearly as rough as League.

I'll second guess you when you're wrong, or even if I just feel like it. So, neh, neh, neh.

(since you want to be snotty about it) You coming along and rushing to qualify your statement makes no difference.

League Rugby still isn't up to NFL levels when it comes to the physical attributes of the players. Otherwise, they'd be playing US football and bringing home 10x more money. I'd say the only advantage Rugby players have over NFL is endurance, their aerobic fitness is higher due to the nature of the game they play. US football players don't play continuously and have many stops in play, so explosive bursts are valued more than the ability to run for 90 minutes.

But, then again, many football players run marathons for fun (usually just defensive backs and wide receivers). So, who knows?

TheWOAT · Oct 13, 2007, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Golf is a game that certainly takes skill to be very good at it, but it is not a sport, any more than air hockey or billiards is a sport.

Do you play golf?

brassplayersrock² · Oct 13, 2007, 05:23 PM

if you sweat, then it's a sport

Shaddim · Oct 13, 2007, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by cjrivera

I'd rather watch sumo wrestling...

Good point. An open-handed slap from a 600lb wrestler can't be fun.

SpaceMonkey · Oct 13, 2007, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

Do you play golf?

No. Do you have to train for physical conditioning to prepare yourself for professional golf? Or do you only need to practice? If you only need to practice, then it is not a sport.

I'm not saying golf isn't hard. It is. But if you can go on the professional circuit as an out-of-shape golfer, then it is not a sport.

By this criteria, I will readily admit that baseball is a borderline sport, depending on the player's position.

TheWOAT · Oct 13, 2007, 05:25 PM

The United States will never realize its potential until it fully embraces football soccer.

TheWOAT · Oct 13, 2007, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

No. Do you have to train for physical conditioning to prepare yourself for professional golf? Or do you only need to practice? If you only need to practice, then it is not a sport.

I think training would be a great help to a professional golfer. Most of the top players do train.

It takes alot more than just practice to become a pro golfer.

SpaceMonkey · Oct 13, 2007, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

I think training would be a great help to a professional golfer. Most of the top players do train.

It takes alot more than just practice to become a pro golfer.

It takes skill, but not necessarily physical conditioning. Witness what's-his-name, the fat golfer who's addicted to diet coke, who was profiled on "60 minutes" a while back. Physical conditioning might help, but a lot of top players seem to get by without it. Hence, not a sport. Sport, in my mind, requires both skill and conditioning.

TheWOAT · Oct 13, 2007, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

It takes skill, but not necessarily physical conditioning. Witness what's-his-name, the fat golfer who's addicted to diet coke, who was profiled on "60 minutes" a while back. Physical conditioning might help, but a lot of top players seem to get by without it. Hence, not a sport. Sport, in my mind, requires both skill and conditioning.

John Daly is on the tour, but I would never consider him a top golfer. He is a fan favorite, but to me he is a slob who keeps marrying trailer trash...sure thats his own business, but I dont see whats likable about the guy. Anyways, yeah he is heavy... likewise there are overweight goalies in soccer and overweight baseball players all over the place.

I see your point, but golf is highly competitive, and a high stress "activity"... and it takes immense physical skill... so to me its a sport.

brassplayersrock² · Oct 13, 2007, 05:39 PM

is teaching a sport then? you need skill and conditioning to become/be a teacher

Stogieman · Oct 13, 2007, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

Amusing Soccer Dives Video

greg

LOL! Who's the guy at the end of the video? He had me cracking up.
"If you want to be an actor.... then move to Hollywood."

TheWOAT · Oct 13, 2007, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock²

is teaching a sport then? you need skill and conditioning to become/be a teacher

You need physical skill to teach? Maybe in Detroit.

SpaceMonkey · Oct 13, 2007, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

John Daly is on the tour, but I would never consider him a top golfer. He is a fan favorite, but to me he is a slob who keeps marrying trailer trash...sure thats his own business, but I dont see whats likable about the guy. Anyways, yeah he is heavy... likewise there are overweight goalies in soccer and overweight baseball players all over the place.

I see your point, but golf is highly competitive, and a high stress "activity"... and it takes immense physical skill... so to me its a sport.

I made an edit to my earlier post I guess just after you first responded, saying that, under my own criteria, there are certainly professional baseball players who are not athletes, but it to some degree depends on the position that they play.

Professional chess is pretty competitive and stressful too.