[Chongo]

I'm sure everyone in here whose parent(s) told them not to: drink, use, drugs, and not to have sex, or if you must, use birth control; listened to them. The overall failure rate of BC, according to the FDA is 2% (11% for condoms).

On a side note, I watched Real Time last night and Mahr interviewed Gov. Tim Kaine of VA. I found it interesting Gov Kaine was on the short-short list list for the Dem VEEP slot. Kaine was elected Gov on '06.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

I'm sure everyone in here whose parent(s) told them not to: drink, use, drugs, and not to have sex, or if you must, use birth control; listened to them.

Not and I don't think anyone is saying that... I listened to my parents, but they didn't say all that. they realized I was mature and a responsible kid, they told me if I tried drugs and needed help to come to them (which I did once on a bunch of ACID... mistake for sure, but i was glad they understood) I also had condoms and NEVER had sex without one until I was trying for a kid or my wife was on B.C. I don't think saying NO has ever worked, but teaching about pregnancy and disease and WHY you need to be protected not just "wear your jimmy hat" does far more.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by goMac 

But someone who uses both birth control and "Palin style abstinence" (snicker) is at a much lower risk of becoming pregnant. If her daughter used condoms (I'm betting she didn't), she likely wouldn't be pregnant. No one is saying condoms are perfect either. But they apparently are a lot more effective then the Palin abstinence plan. It's scientifically proven, and it's proven within Palin's own family.

Obama is up 8 points in the polls according to the latest polls today. I think they were taken pre-baby announcement. We'll see what the next batch say.

Hmm so not having sex can result in pregnancy? I didn't think you believed in virgin birth.

Obama should be up by more 8 points at this point after the convention, more like 15.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

they realized I was mature and a responsible kid, they told me if I tried drugs and needed help to come to them (which I did once on a bunch of ACID...

Ha I bet that was a fun night.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Ha I bet that was a fun night.

Best. Night. Ever. haha nooooo

[Kerrigan]

I've never done acid. I tend to wig out every now and again, so I would think that acid is a bad idea for me. Thoughts?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Hmm so not having sex can result in pregnancy?

So telling kids not to have sex is actually an effective way of causing them not to have sex?

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

I've never done acid. I tend to wig out every now and again, so I would think that acid is a bad idea for me. Thoughts?

Wigging out on acid is not recommended, it would be an awful experience. What happened was we thought a kid died (he passed out from dehydration) and no one wanted to do anything, so I had to muster up to call Police and my parents who thankfully kept me from the police and in the house and kept me calm... I guess they knew what it was like and what I needed to hear. All I can remember is asking every 3-4 minutes how he was doing, no matter their answer I would ask it again and again.

Finally I went into the bathroom and sat on the floor, it was black and white tile floor. i remember the black part was bubbling up and "popping" out of the white (leaving only white behind) and it would float up to my face and pop.... the pooping sound I can remember to this day, very eerie and CG sounding.

Anyways I never had done as much as I did that day and I wouldn't recommend it. Some of that day happened in super fast motion and some are in super slow, such an odd feeling. Anyways I have derailed way too much, but I did start this ;-p

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

So telling kids not to have sex is actually an effective way of causing them not to have sex?

No more than telling them not to drink or do drugs. Even after all the sex/drug awareness classes we had in school ('70s), I still know of at least two friends who died from drug overdoses, and my oldest sister had her first kid when she was 17.

Abstinence works only if one abstains from sex, otherwise it's not abstinence.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Abstinence works only if one abstains from sex

That tends to be the knock against it.

[lurkalot]

Telling them not to use condoms however appears to work like a charm.

[Chongo]

I guess he can dump her and go with Gov. Jindal instead.

[RAILhead]

Am I the only one that saw "pooping sounds" above?

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Am I the only one that saw "pooping sounds" above?

not to far off HAHAH

EDIT: hey I will be in Houston for the show too! Woot! indeed. : )

[RAILhead]

Cool! Where are you sitting?

/let's make this a Metallica thread...

[besson3c]

Heheh... I saw pooping sound too.

DIARRHEA CHA CHA CHA!

[besson3c]

Conversation between McCain and Palin leaked to the press:

http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/m...in_le_8644.php

[zerostar]

I was joking when I said it before, but man she really is the gift that keeps on giving... NO WAY she was vetted. by whom the keystone cops? JAJAJA

Palin wanted to ban books from the local library, tried to fire librarian for refusing
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,...837918,00.html

If your going to pick on one person's pastor we can pick on hers too (ill dig up quotes if I have to)
Sarah Palin's pastor: Iraq War is God's plan, Kerry voters and Bush critics doomed to Hell
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_123205.html

*I hope you take my comments in jest, but its still funny as hell.

[tie]

This is why we need to vet candidates. We really do not need someone who supports anti-American political organizations in the White House. I hope somebody is looking over her charitable donations very closely to make sure she hasn't supported any terrorist organizations. This is how Al Qaeda would really get in the door.

[Chongo]

Obama still needs vetting

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

No more than telling them not to drink or do drugs. Even after all the sex/drug awareness classes we had in school ('70s), I still know of at least two friends who died from drug overdoses, and my oldest sister had her first kid when she was 17.

Abstinence works only if one abstains from sex, otherwise it's not abstinence.

The point is that abstinence education is ineffective at preventing teen sex. Interestingly, though, comprehensive sex education has more of an impact in terms of getting teens to delay sexual activity and results in much safer behavior when teens do elect to have sex.

Give kids good information to make informed choices and they're more likely to do so. Give them lies and taboos, and they're more likely to chuck it all in the heat of the moment.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Conversation between McCain and Palin leaked to the press:

http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/m...in_le_8644.php

That's pretty funny.

Edit: No, that's frickin' hilarious.

[GSixZero]

Palin is a train wreck that I can't stop watching.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

I was joking when I said it before, but man she really is the gift that keeps on giving... NO WAY she was vetted. by whom the keystone cops? JAJAJA

Palin wanted to ban books from the local library, tried to fire librarian for refusing
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,...837918,00.html

If your going to pick on one person's pastor we can pick on hers too (ill dig up quotes if I have to)
Sarah Palin's pastor: Iraq War is God's plan, Kerry voters and Bush critics doomed to Hell
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_123205.html

*I hope you take my comments in jest, but its still funny as hell.

Oh, that's just great.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

The point is that abstinence education is ineffective at preventing teen sex. Interestingly, though, comprehensive sex education has more of an impact in terms of getting teens to delay sexual activity and results in much safer behavior when teens do elect to have sex.

Evidenced by the rise in teen pregnancy and STDs? You'll show that overall they're down, but the fact of the matter is that they're back on the rise. This more easily suggests that the problem reached a peak, dropped, and is moving back toward its peak. The message is already old. I'd be interested in seeing a link to anything that affirms sex education delays sexual activity.

Give kids good information to make informed choices and they're more likely to do so. Give them lies and taboos, and they're more likely to chuck it all in the heat of the moment.

They'll chuck it all in the heat of the moment, including pulling out when wearing a condom.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Evidenced by the rise in teen pregnancy and STDs? You'll show that overall they're down, but the fact of the matter is that they're back on the rise. This more easily suggests that the problem reached a peak, dropped, and is moving back toward its peak. The message is already old. I'd be interested in seeing a link to anything that affirms sex education delays sexual activity.

I will chime in here since I am deeply involved with this topic, Here teen pregnancy is on the rise of 3%, but had been down in the last 14 years... do you know what has changed? President Bush cut funding for sex education and we are pushed to teach abstinence education (that does not work in study after study) We had to cut 6th grade sex education down dramatically and are now supposed to avoid talking about "if you do have sex..." all together... what the heck is that? this is sex... this is how its done... but we will pretend you will never do this... um ok? so yes it is on the rise as a direct result of pandering to the evangelical base.

He also cut the "head start" program here which is far more effective at getting kids in and all the way out of school (K-12) then daycare programs or pre-k alone. I think the success rate was 92% for the last year it ran.

Ebuddy: here is the CDC results on sex education.
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/heal...en-sex-cdc.htm
For example, teen girls in the nationally representative sample were 59 percent less likely to start having sex before age 15 if they had received sex education, while teen boys were 71 percent less likely, the study found.


We need to expand sex education and every child should have it in 4 and 6th grade, expand abstinence and protection education, they both help cut activity and raise success rates. It just needs to be taught and not only by the school. One thing Obama said, and this was aimed clearly, parents need to be more involved, fathers need to be there for their daughters, we need to have accountability for our families in order to grow as a nation.


IT HAS BEEN CUT THAT IS WHY IT IS GOING UP. The only good thing we were able to do is expand our 4th grade sexual education and expand on disease and pregnancy. I will let you know the results in 3-4 years but I can already see open dialog between children and parents will help my community.

[- - e r i k - -]

11 pages of hysteria over this transparent and desperate attempt at gaining the Hillary voters.

But seriously, would you vote for someone who wants to BAN books?

In October 1996, she asked the police chief, librarian, public works director and finance director to resign, and she instituted a policy requiring department heads to get her approval before talking to reporters.[20] The librarian kept the job, despite a dispute over inquiries by Palin on how to ban books that included language she deemed inappropriate.

Guns, abortion…whatever. A woman who want to censor art is a dangerous person indeed.

[tie]

I think a lot of people in this forum love that she wants to ban books. Ask smacintush or ebuddy what they think, for example. Palin is designed to appeal to the base, not to broaden McCain's appeal. To the base, it is also great that she loves pork barrel spending and lobbyists, because it hints that McCain isn't really going to change anything.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Wow. McCain's choice has done a lot to unveil hidden male chauvinism of the left.

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Pam is jealous and validating undeniable truth of life #24
35 undeniable truths of life
24. Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access to the mainstream of society.

IRONY

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com...candidate.html

"Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance."

what?

How did everyone miss this? Is this woman deluded or what?

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

How did everyone miss this? Is this woman deluded or what?

I couldn't find it at the link...did SHE say that? If so, it's worse than I thought.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Evidenced by the rise in teen pregnancy and STDs? You'll show that overall they're down, but the fact of the matter is that they're back on the rise. This more easily suggests that the problem reached a peak, dropped, and is moving back toward its peak. The message is already old. I'd be interested in seeing a link to anything that affirms sex education delays sexual activity.


They'll chuck it all in the heat of the moment, including pulling out when wearing a condom.

On the stats, I think zerostar pointed out what the difference is: Bush and years of Republican control. Sex ed funding's been cut.

As to the last point: Yes, obviously some kids will. But again, the numbers demonstrate that the more honest and comprehensive program has better chances of producing the desired results.

"Teenagers" are a recent invention. In any other epoch (and in many cultures today) in human history, kids this age were fully vested adults out there making their ways, and often starting families. We do them a disservice thinking we can control their access to information and get them to conform to our expectations. They're young adults. I say arm them with knowledge and encourage them to make responsible choices.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

I will chime in here since I am deeply involved with this topic, Here teen pregnancy is on the rise of 3%, but had been down in the last 14 years... do you know what has changed? President Bush cut funding for sex education and we are pushed to teach abstinence education (that does not work in study after study) We had to cut 6th grade sex education down dramatically and are now supposed to avoid talking about "if you do have sex..." all together... what the heck is that? this is sex... this is how its done... but we will pretend you will never do this... um ok? so yes it is on the rise as a direct result of pandering to the evangelical base.

He also cut the "head start" program here which is far more effective at getting kids in and all the way out of school (K-12) then daycare programs or pre-k alone. I think the success rate was 92% for the last year it ran.

Ebuddy: here is the CDC results on sex education.
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/heal...en-sex-cdc.htm
For example, teen girls in the nationally representative sample were 59 percent less likely to start having sex before age 15 if they had received sex education, while teen boys were 71 percent less likely, the study found.


We need to expand sex education and every child should have it in 4 and 6th grade, expand abstinence and protection education, they both help cut activity and raise success rates. It just needs to be taught and not only by the school. One thing Obama said, and this was aimed clearly, parents need to be more involved, fathers need to be there for their daughters, we need to have accountability for our families in order to grow as a nation.


IT HAS BEEN CUT THAT IS WHY IT IS GOING UP. The only good thing we were able to do is expand our 4th grade sexual education and expand on disease and pregnancy. I will let you know the results in 3-4 years but I can already see open dialog between children and parents will help my community.

That's what it's all about: Openness. This is all a part of life--in fact it's the lifeforce. We need to have an open dialogue, with all the facts on the table.

[- - e r i k - -]

Post from Google Cache:

MONDAY, JULY 31, 2006
2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire
The following questionnaire was sent to all candidates for Governor with their responses listed in the order we received them.
JB = John Binkley (R ) http://www.binkley06.com/
SP = Sarah Palin (R ) http://www.palinforgovernor.com/
FM = Frank Murkowski (R ) http://www.frankmurkowski.com/
MH = Merica Hlatcu (R )
GH = Gerald Heikes (R ) http://www.heikesontherock.com/
TK = Tony Knowles (D) http://tonyknowles.com/
EC = Eric Croft (D) http://www.ericcroft.com/
BL = Bruce Lemke (D)
EB = Eddie Burke (AIP) http://www.eddieburke.com/
DD = Daniel DeNardo (AIP)
DW = DonWright (AIP)

1. Complete the sentence by checking the applicable phrases (you can check more than one).
Abortion should be:
Banned throughout entire pregnancy.
Legal to save the life of the mother.
Legal in case of rape and incest.
Legal if the baby is handicapped.
Legal if the baby has a genetic defect.
Legal in the first trimester.
Legal in the second trimester.
Legal in the third trimester.
Other:__________________

JB: Banned throughout entire pregnancy.
Legal to save the life of the mother.
SP: I am pro-life. With the exception of a doctor’s determination that the mother’s life would end if the pregnancy continued. I believe that no matter what mistakes we make as a society, we cannot condone ending an innocent’s life.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

2. Will you support the right of parents to opt out their children from curricula, books, classes, or surveys, which parents consider privacy-invading or offensive to their religion or conscience?
JB: We should always encourage parents to participate in the curricula decisions of our school.
SP: Yes. Parents should have the ultimate control over what their children are taught.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

3. Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
JB: We should not exclude abstinence-until-marriage education programs.
SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

4. Will you support efforts to raise or lower the mandatory age of education? Why or why not?
JB: No.
SP: No, again, parents know better than government what is best for their children.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

5. Will you support an effort to expand hate-crime laws?
JB: No.
SP: No, as I believe all heinous crime is based on hate.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

6a. Do you support the expansion of gambling in Alaska?
JB: No.
SP: No, in so many cases, gambling has shown ill effects on families and as Governor I would not propose expansion legislation.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

6b Would you sign any bills that expand gaming in our state?
JB: No.
SP: No.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

7. Do you support statewide restrictions on the use of eminent domain to transfer property from one private owner to another?
JB: Yes.
SP: Yes.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

8. Do you support parental choice in the spending of state educational dollars?
JB: As it relates to home schooling, we should give parents options in program spending.
SP: Within Alaska law, I support parents deciding what is the best education venue for their child.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

9. Do you support legislation requiring labor unions to obtain permission from their members before using dues for political purposes?
JB: No Response
SP: Yes, unions represent their workers and as such, should be accountable to them
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

10. Do you support the Alaska Supreme Court’s ruling that spousal benefits for state employees should be given to same-sex couples? Why or why not?
JB: No. The constitutional amendment was clear to me.
SP: No, I believe spousal benefits are reserved for married citizens as defined in our constitution.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

11. Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
JB: No.
SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

12. In relationship to families, what are your top three priorities if elected governor?
JB: I will always support and work to strengthen families.
SP: 1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to choose the venues of education for their children.
2. Preserving the definition of “marriage” as defined in our constitution.
3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd Amendment rights.
FM: No Response
MH: No Response
GH: No Response
TK: No Response
EC: No Response
BL: No Response
EB: No Response
DD: No Response
DW: No Response

Full post, markup for legibility by me.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Post from Google Cache:

Ok, it's official then...she's an idiot.

[- - e r i k - -]

Well, that wasn't exactly a surprise.

I, on the other hand, am wondering where I can get me some of that explicit sex-ed.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Ok, it's official then...she's an idiot.

WTF, dude

Care to at least present an argument ?

-t

[Kerrigan]

Liberals are still fuming over this, I love it. I suspect it's because they recognize that she's a game changer in this election. What other reason is there for the fuss? Republicans aren't panicking about Biden, after all.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Liberals are still fuming over this, I love it. I suspect it's because they recognize that she's a game changer in this election.

Wrong

[zerostar]

Maybe he was referring to the Pledge answer? You know what they were discussing....

100 years later is a bit off Nothing of God was mentioned until on money, then the Pledge was written by Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist.

That is certainly something you could research in 3 seconds before you put it out there as a response to a Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

WTF, dude

Care to at least present an argument ?

-t

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

WTF, dude

Care to at least present an argument ?

-t

I'm sorry, I thought it would be self-evident.

"Idiot" was for fun. What she is would actually be "ignorant."

She thinks the Constitution says something about marriage--it does not--and she obviously has no clue about the origin of the Pledge.

I'm sure it would shock her to learn that it was written by a socialist and that "under God" was added later, just as "in God we trust" was slapped on our money this century...oops, last century.

[zerostar]

Man I am soooo waiting for this game to change... haven't seen it yet... quite the opposite so-far

Last 5 polls put Obama +8 +6 +7 +9 +8
Dems have also been way up in Senate & House races...


EDIT TO ADD: Oh yeah DNC ruled the news all its week.. For the RNC this week I see Google Chrome kicked its butt and they are low low numbers anyway... haha look it up, it only takes a few minutes to see the joke this is. That base is energized! About Chrome

I will dance in the streets once Obama wins this thing, I would like to see this party to wake the F up and get back to the ideals of the GOP and stop pandering, this may just do it.

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Liberals are still fuming over this, I love it. I suspect it's because they recognize that she's a game changer in this election. What other reason is there for the fuss? Republicans aren't panicking about Biden, after all.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

I suspect it's because they recognize that she's a game changer in this election.

She's a game changer all right. Just not in the way the McCain campaign had hoped.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

She's a game changer all right. Just not in the way the McCain campaign had hoped.

To be fair... this "hail mary pass" was set to save what they already new was dying

[tie]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

She thinks the Constitution says something about marriage--it does not--and she obviously has no clue about the origin of the Pledge.

While the Pledge statement was clearly a Quayle moment, it seemed to me like she was referring to the Alaskan constitution, not the US constitution. And from Google,

§ 25. Marriage

To be valid or recognized in this State, a marriage may exist only between one man and one woman. [Amended 1998]

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by tie 

While the Pledge statement was clearly a Quayle moment, it seemed to me like she was referring to the Alaskan constitution, not the US constitution. And from Google,

Ah, my mistake.

But, the Pledge...come on, that's the doozy.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

To be fair... this "hail mary pass" was set to save what they already new was dying

What's dying? It's a dead heat.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

What's dying? It's a dead heat.

Where do you see this dead heat? Obama is at his highest level of 2008. Even with skewed polls.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by tie 

While the Pledge statement was clearly a Quayle moment, it seemed to me like she was referring to the Alaskan constitution.

She was. What bugs me is that the AK Supreme Court later ruled that the state has to provide same-sex couples (since they can't get married) the same benefits as married couples. (State employees only.)

10. Do you support the Alaska Supreme Court’s ruling that spousal benefits for state employees should be given to same-sex couples? Why or why not?
SP: No, I believe spousal benefits are reserved for married citizens as defined in our constitution.

Not only anti-gay, but anti-equality. Not only is gay wrong, in addition they shouldn't get equal treatment.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

How did everyone miss this? Is this woman deluded or what?

I wonder how many Americans share that misunderstanding ...