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Prediction: Snow Leopard will be free (Page 2)
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
What do normal people need ARD for? I use vnc over ssh and it works like a charm.
I'll second that.
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Originally Posted by Chuckit
You're assuming these are things developers need to go out of their way to benefit from. It's entirely possible that the existing system libraries could be enhanced to take advantage of the new features, in which case your claim that "no apps will support it" would be exactly backwards.
However, that takes nothing away from the complete lack of saleability to your average consumer that Grand Central will have. If Apple charge anything more than $20 for Snow Leopard (assuming that they really are not adding anything new other than what has already been announced), the uptake is going to be treacle slow. There just isn't anything in it that they can sell to consumers, especially when we're in the middle of a ****-storm of a global recession.
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Clinically Insane
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Exchange support alone is going to make quite a few machine sales.
I've seen a *lot* of business people looking to buy a home machine, but still requiring Exchange. Shelling out an extra €430 just for Exchange support is not a good proposition, so a number of people keep Outlook running in Parallels.
Snow Leopard looks like a good upgrade for them.
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However, business people who will (a) be able to and (b) will need to integrate their Mac with an Exchange 2007 server will make up a tiny, tiny fraction of Apple's user base. Sorry, but 99% of consumers are not going to give a flying f about Exchange support as it is something that they just don't and won't ever need. It will help shift some copies of SL for sure, but it isn't going to be very many and it certainly won't help drive a large scale move from earlier versions of OS X in a short space of time.
$129 will be grossly over-priced if Apple is hoping to get as many people as possible using SL in short order. I know that I am not going to be remotely interested in it if they charge that much and it'll also be the first time I won't bother upgrading OS X. On the current info, it just doesn't offer me anything I truly need or, just as importantly for Apple, that they can make me think that I truly need; especially when I am having to worry about how much money I've got coming in each month and whether or not I will still have my job in a year's time. I doubt I will be alone in that sentiment, either.
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Originally Posted by JKT
Sorry, but 99% of consumers are not going to give a flying f about Exchange support as it is something that they just don't and won't ever need.
Which is why SL will also come with a brand new and super fancy GUI to attract the '99% consumers'. Plus those 100+ new features Apple will detail on the SL web page. Apple marketing has no doubt faced greater challenges than selling SL at $129.
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Unless Apple have been lying to us we already know that there are not going to be 100+ new features for the consumer in SL. There might be 100+ new features in the underlying OS, but that isn't going to sell anything to me (an advanced Mac user) or a consumer if I see no real-world benefit to it. A new UI might also shift a few boxes but there is no way that it will persuade me to spend more than a few pounds on the upgrade. £80+ is fantasy money for a coat of lipstick. A new Finder that actually works might, but yet another revamp of the shite we still have most definitely will not.
In any case, I think it is pretty much guaranteed that Apple is going to be stupid enough to charge £80+ for SL. However, I'm also quite certain that there will be far fewer mugs willing to pay it than they anticipate this time around.
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Originally Posted by Simon
Which is why SL will also come with a brand new and super fancy GUI to attract the '99% consumers'. Plus those 100+ new features Apple will detail on the SL web page. Apple marketing has no doubt faced greater challenges than selling SL at $129.
I don't think so. They've already said that's not true. IMO, Snow Leopard is going to be a selling point for new Macs they're planning with 16 billion cores and five GPUs, so it really doesn't matter how many people buy the shrinkwrap version.
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Chuck
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Originally Posted by mduell
My guess is both Snow Leopard and Win7 are both going to be paid upgrades at normal prices.
Unless Microsoft does the unthinkable and releases Win7 for free to Vista users then Apple may do the same for Leopard users and pre-Leopard users will pay the full price ($129) - not likely though.
Quicktime X, new GUI, iLife apps taking advantage of Grand Central and OpenCL - will warrant a $129 price tag.
I'm in favor of a $69 upgrade for Leopard users and $129 for pre-Leopard
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Originally Posted by Simon
Which is why SL will also come with a brand new and super fancy GUI to attract the '99% consumers'. Plus those 100+ new features Apple will detail on the SL web page. Apple marketing has no doubt faced greater challenges than selling SL at $129.
A brand new and super-fancy GUI didn't help Microsoft out with Vista. Just sayin'...
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Originally Posted by Proudest Monkey
I'm in favor of a $69 upgrade for Leopard users and $129 for pre-Leopard
I'm in favor of it, too, but it doesn't seem Apple's style. They don't tend to deal with upgrade pricing schemes that much, especially for high-volume, broad market products like the OS or iLife. It seems like it might be more trouble than it's worth to deal with verifying that people have Leopard.
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Originally Posted by CharlesS
A brand new and super-fancy GUI didn't help Microsoft out with Vista. Just sayin'...
That's correct. However, bad sales weren't about the GUI either. Vista didn't sell because it was a piece of junk. People realized they were more productive if they stayed with XP. We expect Apple OTOH to make SL even better than Leopard already is. If they manage to pull off what they're trying to do this will benefit everybody if they know it or not. And a new and fancy GUI will help sell it to those people who don't know what OpenCL stands for. But sure, if SL makes people less productive than Leopard a new GUI sure won't sell it.
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I expected Vista to be better than XP was, even after some of the flashy features were removed - I mean, redesigned architecture, more security, less reliance on the Registry - it should have been a good release. Apple will most likely do better, but even then I doubt whether a new skin alone would cause many end users to upgrade.
OTOH, perhaps they don't need to. Like Chuckit mentioned, the greatest benefit of Snow Leopard will be the abilities it will enable on future hardware, on which SL will ship anyway.
Hell, I'm not going to pretend to be a clairvoyant. We'll see what happens when it happens.
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What if SL gets pushed back another year and made into a traditional major OS X release?
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Originally Posted by Big Mac
What if SL gets pushed back another year and made into a traditional major OS X release?
That's also an option. There have been rumors of a new UI (marble) and I guess this could always happen.
Although it would make more sense if Apple has an intermediate release so that developers can start integrating next-gen technologies into their apps until they are ready for prime time with 10.7. Right now, Apple is not really forced to make a feature-centric release (as, arguably, Windows 6.1 aka Windows 7 is also a polish-centric release, nothing wrong with that).
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Let's get the discussion back on track, shall we?
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
Let's get the discussion back on track, shall we?
We shall ...
I think the key to convincing people to switch will be 2 fold - people like us will upgrade; long time mac users, people who understand there is unnecessary code within the operating system, people craving a little more speed. We can appreciate those features.
People who may not be able to appreciate those features will need to be marketed correctly. Of course, SL will ship on all new macs and that's how most switchers will acquire SL, however, this may be many switchers first experience with a MacOS X upgrade. How do you convince them to switch? You point out the bloatware Microsoft had been pushing off on them for years by telling them MacOS X is trimming it's fat, not piling it on. This should get some switchers - fairly competent computer users but new to Macs - to upgrade.
Will all this get people like my wife to upgrade? Of course not - she will when her next computer is purchased.
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I'll upgrade one way or the other, I think I have to get a new machine next year anyway
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Originally Posted by Simon
Which is why SL will also come with a brand new and super fancy GUI to attract the '99% consumers'. Plus those 100+ new features Apple will detail on the SL web page. Apple marketing has no doubt faced greater challenges than selling SL at $129.
Another two of those 100 new 'features' were just leaked.
(PS mockup)
Snow Leopard Adds Minor Often Requested Tweaks: Put Back, Stack Folder Navigation
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So "Put Back" actually got put back, eh? I've been wondering how long that would take.
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Rumors are that Windows 7 will be free to Vista buyers.
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"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
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Originally Posted by olePigeon
Rumors are that Windows 7 will be free to Vista buyers.
Source?
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Originally Posted by CharlesS
So "Put Back" actually got put back, eh? I've been wondering how long that would take.
I still occasionally hit Cmd-Y when I've moved something I didn't mean to, then get all confused when the Quick Look pane shows up…
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Originally Posted by Simon
Another two of those 100 new 'features' were just leaked.
(PS mockup)
That looks a bit like minimise in place which some of us enabled in 10.2
(
Last edited by Super Mario; Jan 10, 2018 at 02:25 PM.
)
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Originally Posted by olePigeon
Rumors are that Windows 7 will be free to Vista buyers.
The rumor is that new PCs purchased with some versions of Vista after July from participating OEMs will get free upgrade coupons for Win7. No real surprise there to avoid the pre-release computer sales slump.
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yea, def. not free. they'd prolly sell it for cheaper then 129 tho
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A real screenshot of SL shows that the Spaces drill-down action is a lot less impressive than the mockup. It just shows a little arrow at the top corner to go back.
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Snow Leopard will be a free software update for one week.
For anyone with Leopard.
I hope !
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my research shows that snow leopard will NOT be free, but will in fact come with a free mac...
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Originally Posted by mduell
The rumor is that new PCs purchased with some versions of Vista after July from participating OEMs will get free upgrade coupons for Win7. No real surprise there to avoid the pre-release computer sales slump.
The downside is that apparently people who want to upgrade are very much limited in their options: Windows Vista Home Premium owners can only upgrade to Windows 7 Home Premium, ditto for Pro and Ultimate.
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If Snow Leopard were going to be free, it would be a 10.5.x update (or series of updates), not a major version shift. They would split the performance enhancements from the interface and feature updates and sell the latter as it's own product (Snow Leopard).
Snow Leopard for free just doesn't sound right. I am intrigued though at the Snow Leopard @ <$129
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Snow Leopard will not be free. Apple hasn't given an update away for free since the earliest days of OSX. Why would they start now? Especially with market share climbing. That means this is a revenue stream that is growing. $129 sounds right. Maybe they do offer the free QT Pro option as part of it, but expect pricing to remain the same as other past updates.
Also, Windows 7 will not be free, other than as an upgrade for those who bought a Vista-equipped machine close to the Windows 7 release date. MS has already posted the SKUs for all the different versions they plan to offer. It was going to be free they certainly wouldn't offer all those different versions, like Home Basic, Home Premium, blah blah blah. They'd just make it "Home" and "Business".
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
The downside is that apparently people who want to upgrade are very much limited in their options: Windows Vista Home Premium owners can only upgrade to Windows 7 Home Premium, ditto for Pro and Ultimate.
Which makes sense for a free upgrade: buy the edition you want, get the new version of that edition for free.
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No, I wasn't speaking of people buying Vista now, I was speaking of people who are not eligible for a free update. For the, it doesn't make much sense. If you want to upgrade to another version, you have to pay full price.
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Snow Leopard will not be $129. It may not be free but there's no way Apple is going to coax a significant amount of people into coughing up that kind of money for optimation.
I know there are the rampant complainers with every release but there were folks who couldn't see the value of Leopard and it's chalk full of new features (I don't want to compute without Quick Look ...I knew I'd love if the first time I read about it).
While this was a vocal minority I'd expect efforts to sell Snow Leopard at 130 bucks would have a more vast chorus of dectractors.
Snow Leopard is a bridge OS. Apple cut legacy and charged off into a more definitive future. They need every Intel computer to move to Snow Leopard as quickly as possible. If Apple needed the cash they wouldn't have delivered iWork sans serialization.
I expect the most difficult part is dealing with Tiger users on Intel. How do you upgrade Tiger and Leopard users without either feeling screwed?
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Originally Posted by CharlesS
So "Put Back" actually got put back, eh? I've been wondering how long that would take.
Hopefully it isn't limited for the Trash context only, the screenshots all seem to depict that.
Something about the original 'place things you're working on to the desktop, then put them back when done'- idea appeals to me, even if aliases soon made things more flexible.
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Originally Posted by CharlesS
So "Put Back" actually got put back, eh? I've been wondering how long that would take.
Hallelujah.
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Originally Posted by hmurchison2001
I expect the most difficult part is dealing with Tiger users on Intel. How do you upgrade Tiger and Leopard users without either feeling screwed?
It's not like Leopard is brand new, it's 16 months old. If people don't feel like they've gotten their money's worth by now, they're never going to feel that way.
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Impulse Response
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Originally Posted by Judge_Fire
Hopefully it isn't limited for the Trash context only, the screenshots all seem to depict that.
Don't worry, if that were the case I doubt the feature would be added at all.
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More leaked Leopard screenshots here.
Put Back:
Navigating folder structures in Stacks (obviously the previous PS mockup nailed it)
There's a movie of how it works here (alt-click to d/l).
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And some more. This is 10A261 BTW.
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