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Eriamjh · 07:38 PM

If you really pay attention to the missions of the space program, you'll realize that it takes years between each major step. From Kennedy's announcement, every single space mission was a step to getting to the moon. The country had enough money (we could not afford it today) to do it and the time was right.

Skylab was the first repair in space (not planned), but it paved the way for repairing satellites from the shuttle (and fixing the Hubble). Condense all the missions by task, and we are barely able to go to Mars or even build a moonbase. 100 years from now, we may have a base on Mars, but maybe a moon base will teach us how to do it (oxygen generation, mining for resources, food transportation, how to deal with the sheer loneliness of it all, etc.) in the meantime.

We haven't gone back to the moon because just being there isn't a good enough reason.

Ever wonder why we don't have a satellite around every planet, taking pictures, making maps, etc.? Because we don't need it for anything other than our own curiosity (I'd love to see the surface of venus better than what the Russians have done).

It's not cheap and we can't really afford it, but it does teach us about our universe and our little world.

PS: According to WeChooseTheMoon.Com, they land at 4:20PM EST tomorrow (ish).

ghporter · Jul 19, 2009, 10:02 PM

If we don't "know how it all works," how can we get to the bottom of important questions? What keeps earthquakes from happening in LA? How can we get the air in LA cleaner? What did Saturn's rings come from, and if it was a collision of small moons, how did that happen? Yes, we DO need to explore the rest of the Solar System so we can see how other planets' crusts behave (and generalize from that what's happening in LA). We need to see how Titan's atmospheric gasses interact because that could help us understand how the gasses in LA's air interact-so we could eliminate the smog. If the rings were caused by collisions, how can we use that information to predict how Earth satellites' orbits might interact as they decay, or as the orbits of the TONS of debris we've thrown up there interact with useful satellites' orbits? You MUST explore to learn. And not only CAN we afford it (the numbers sound far less "astronomical" when compared to a lot of other things that we waste money on), we MUST afford it or be forever locked on Earth without the knowledge that we need to properly manage what we have on the ground.

And the landing was at 4:20pm, but they didn't go out the hatch for several hours. It was quite late at night when they stepped out.

Dakar V · Jul 20, 2009, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

The country had enough money (we could not afford it today)

I keep seeing this, but I'm gonna need some clarification, because its not clear to me why.

Is the country less prosperous now? The technology somehow got more expensive?

Thorzdad · Jul 20, 2009, 12:44 PM

For you younguns who want to enjoy it the way the rest of us did (or if your system can't run the latest Flash player, as the wechoosethemoon site requires), Kottke has put-together this page which will play the CBS coverage of the landing and moonwalk in real-time at the same time it happened. Thus, landing coverage starts later this afternoon.

Chongo · Jul 20, 2009, 01:02 PM

Astronauts to the moon? HAHA!

design219 · Jul 20, 2009, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Is the country less prosperous now? The technology somehow got more expensive?

Yeah, I don't buy that either. I think it's more a matter of not having cold war competition.

Dakar V · Jul 20, 2009, 01:12 PM

Well, that's not a reason why we can't, that's a reason why we won't. I've been seeing the can't thrown around a few times here.

Laminar · Jul 20, 2009, 01:34 PM

Inflation.

Dakar V · Jul 20, 2009, 01:36 PM

No.

Laminar · Jul 20, 2009, 01:44 PM

Devaluation of the dollar.

Thorzdad · Jul 20, 2009, 01:45 PM

I think it's more an outgrowth of the whole "Cut government. Cut taxes. Cut spending." mindset in the country. There's really no fiscal stomach for the sort of big history-of-mankind adventure or exploration that the moon program exemplified.

osiris · Jul 20, 2009, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Well, that's not a reason why we can't, that's a reason why we won't. I've been seeing the can't thrown around a few times here.

A new Venture Brothers is on the week we want to go.

Dakar V · Jul 20, 2009, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Thorzdad

I think it's more an outgrowth of the whole "Cut government. Cut taxes. Cut spending." mindset in the country. There's really no fiscal stomach for the sort of big history-of-mankind adventure or exploration that the moon program exemplified.

That's what i figure, but people are saying "it's too expensive."

Really, if that's the case, its a sad endorsement for this country if the only reason we landed on the moon was to win a dick measuring contest.

Thorzdad · Jul 20, 2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Really, if that's the case, its a sad endorsement for this country if the only reason we landed on the moon was to win a dick measuring contest.

While I agree completely, I'm also pretty sure that that was a substantial part of it, unfortunately.

Dakar V · Jul 20, 2009, 02:20 PM

I bet we'd go back to the moon if there was an all female country that would be impressed by it.
And possibly put out.

Eriamjh · Jul 20, 2009, 10:00 PM

I am listening right now and they just depressurized the cabin. Neil Armstrong will step on the moon in about 20 minutes.

ghporter · Jul 21, 2009, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Thorzdad

While I agree completely, I'm also pretty sure that that was a substantial part of it, unfortunately.

There was a serious component of "don't let the Russians get there first because they could set up a missile base there." Really. Once it was obvious that there was a real competition going on though, it got a lot more academic. Maybe there was some "mine is bigger than yours," but that's the way international competitions always go, whether it's the Olympics or trade. In this case, it was a contest to demonstrate whether East or West was technologically superior. The West won. And in winning, put to lie the claims that "the glorious revolution frees man to achieve anything!" and other crap that Soviet dogmatists were spouting.

Spheric Harlot · Jul 21, 2009, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

That's what i figure, but people are saying "it's too expensive."

Really, if that's the case, its a sad endorsement for this country if the only reason we landed on the moon was to win a dick measuring contest.

Yes, it's sad, and yes, that's why nothing will happen until the Chinese prove their own by landing there again.

However, I think it's unfair to underestimate the Cold War, and the military posturing (which is in the end what Apollo was) associated with it.

If you watch "Duck and Cover" and documentaries about its time, it becomes clear that the climate of fear was palpable, and the threat a very real one. I can attest to that having lived in Germany in the 80s, when Reagan's deployment of Pershing II missiles here turned the pacifists/greens into a viable political force.

We disagreed on the overkill posturing, but the climate which led to it - the knowledge that there's a couple hundred megatonnes of nuclear armament aimed straight at your home town - was ever-present.

osiris · 09:44 AM

Last night TCM aired "For All Mankind" - it was an amazing documentary on the Apollo program. It had incredible color footage of the astronauts driving on the moon and other clips that were equally inspiring.

40 years is a long time, a life time. I think our current status in manned space exploration seems embarrassing in contrast to the Apollo days.

Dakar V · Jul 21, 2009, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Yes, it's sad, and yes, that's why nothing will happen until the Chinese prove their own by landing there again.

It's an odd kind of hope. Heh, maybe they'll boast getting to Mars first. That'd keep things interesting.

ghporter · Jul 21, 2009, 04:45 PM

The Chinese have made a VERY small step into the realm of manned space flight. If they were a contender for even a Moon landing, they'd be busy today. Not in the lab, but in space. They ain't because they are too busy managing about 20% of the world's population...

SpaceMonkey · Jul 22, 2009, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

I keep seeing this, but I'm gonna need some clarification, because its not clear to me why.

Is the country less prosperous now? The technology somehow got more expensive?

In 2008 dollars, the total cost of the Apollo program over 14 fiscal years was $98 billion. At its peak, it was about 0.4% of GDP (http://ncseonline.org/nle/crs/abstract.cfm?NLEid=2150).

In context, that actually doesn't sound that expensive. NASA's share of the 2008 budget was $17.8 billion -- multiply that by 14 and you get $249.2 billion, well above Apollo costs.

Charles Bouldin · Jul 23, 2009, 10:42 PM

I was 14 and watched it live on on our 18" B&W TV. Of course the video was B&W, so that was fine.

Those who didn't live through it just have no idea. Try to just consider this: Apollo 8 was the first time a manned spacecraft ever left low Earth Orbit. That was in December, 1968. In the span of 8 months:

Apollo 8 went to the moon. December 1968.
Apollo 9 tested the Lunar Module in Earth Orbit. February 1969.
Apollo 10 went to the moon and test the Lunar Module in Lunar orbit. May 1969.
Apollo 11 landed on the moon. June 1969.

That is one hell of a record for 8 months. What have you done in the past 8 months? This country? The whole world?

ghporter · Jul 24, 2009, 08:57 AM

It was JULY, Charles. But yes, quite a run. But each of those flights was planned out, in detail, years in advance. The vehicles themselves were built at least a year in advance, more like two-plus years in advance, and the timeline for each flight was meticulously planned well ahead of time. The only real "ad lib" involved in any of those was that Apollo 8 was originally supposed to be a test in Earth orbit, but they sort of decided "what the heck, let's do it!" and sent them all the way to the Moon.