[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Ok, so his certificate of live birth doesn't list his birth hospital, but snopes somehow has an entry. So the question is, where did Snopes get that information from?

A January 2009 Buffalo News piece that quotes someone who taught at a Honolulu school Obama attended as a child, who knew his obstetrician.

I don't know if I would trust anything coming out of Buffalo, though.

[OldManMac]

Keep grasping at straws.

[SpaceMonkey]

I have it on good authority that Obama does not even like basketball. It's all an act.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Plus, if one of your parents was born in Kenya, that probably doesn't qualify you to a Natural Born Citizen, to qualify under the Constitutional terms to be President.

Probably you're just wrong.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

By Joe Kovacs and Jerome Corsi
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

More than eight months after Barack Obama was elected president, the mystery surrounding his precise birthplace is deepening as the myth-busting website Snopes.com – along with several news agencies and an Obama community blog – directly contradict the president's own claim regarding the hospital
in which he was born.

In an official letter signed by Obama on White House stationery, the president celebrates his birth at the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu, Hawaii. The facility has posted that letter on its website, along with video of the letter being read in public.


Barack Obama states in this letter on White House stationery that he was born at the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children in Honolulu. The letter was posted by the medical center on its website.

But according to Snopes, the popular online hoax-buster that many rely on as the final word on both important and frivolous stories, Obama was born at a different hospital in the Hawaiian capital.

Want to turn up the pressure to learn the facts? Get your signs and postcards asking for the president's birth certificate documentation here.

In Snopes' entry concerning allegations that Obama is a "radical Muslim," the site addresses the birth history of the commander in chief, stating, "Barack Hussein Obama was born on 4 August 1961 at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii."

WND took a screen shot of the entry and highlighted the name of the hospital.

Kapi'olani is the name of a Hawai'ian queen...

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

And you're already proven that you'll latch onto any attempt to make 0bama look bad, disregarding whether or not it makes any sense whatsoever.

Says who? I don't like him because he's a Democrat, not because he's black. I don't give a rats ass about political correctness. I really don't. But I couldn't care less what the color of his skin is. Trust me, after 11 ships and subs, 20 years in the Navy, and almost all the way around the world, I've work with more nationalities than people in your hometown.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Probably you're just wrong.

Probably I've heard actual Constitutional lawyers say the same thing.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Ok, so his certificate of live birth doesn't list his birth hospital, but snopes somehow has an entry. So the question is, where did Snopes get that information from?

I don't know, but snopes is along the same lines as the wikipedia, imho.

[Dakar V]

Is there something that was wrong on Snopes that led you to that opinion?

[ctt1wbw]

No, I've actually not gone there that much, unless I needed a chuckle. Stuff that is there is too bizarre. Plus, I wouldn't use snopes or the wiki as an actual source of information.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

No, I've actually not gone there that much, unless I needed a chuckle. Stuff that is there is too bizarre. Plus, I wouldn't use snopes or the wiki as an actual source of information.

So what is your distrust of Snopes based on?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Probably I've heard actual Constitutional lawyers say the same thing.

Lawyers aren't the ones who decide which way something goes when it comes to Constitutional questions. There are lots of theories about what this or that means and how to apply it, but it's the courts that are charged with interpreting the Constitution. THEIR call was that Obama is a natural-born citizen of the United States. Since the Constitution says federal courts are the ones that interpret the Constitution, and those courts have made that call, I call it "decided," and closed.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

No, I've actually not gone there that much, unless I needed a chuckle. Stuff that is there is too bizarre. Plus, I wouldn't use snopes or the wiki as an actual source of information.

I like the way Snopes provides not only sources of information but also the reasoning behind how they call something true or false. Very useful.

[Chongo]

It's been said before, and I'll say it again, Obama can make this all go away by releasing the long form certificate.

As far a Snopes.com is concerned, Barbara and David Mikkelson are rumored to be registered (D), but appear not to let that influence the operation. (now their full time job) of their web site

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Thanks for the clarification. I somehow seem to remember that this was the way I was taught in American Government. (Although I shouldn't put too much faith in highschool level stuff )

It's actually more complex than Glenn suggests, and I reject the claim that there's ambiguity in the law or the judicial record. (Plus, in all the commentaries I've read on the Constitution there is not one that I can think of that has claimed that natural citizen is defined by the subsequent residency clause. That's a nonsensical reading of the section.) There are federal laws governing the citizenship that apply here. I looked at this issue when the question was ripe, before the election, and here is what I determined:

There are two ways in which a person is a natural born citizen of the United States, either by birth or by the soil. By birth meaning that your parent(s)* are citizens, or by the soil meaning that you were born on American soil. There is doubt about whether he was born on American soil. But the more interesting issue with Obama is regarding the birth parent requirement, federal law was changed. The law as it is today (and since the 1970s I believe) is that only one parent being a citizen makes the child a citizen. But before Obama was born, the federal law was that both parents had to be citizens for the child to be a citizen.

Ergo, if Obama were indeed not born on American soil (if you assume that to be true), he would not be a natural born citizen according to the federal law as it read at the time of his birth because only one of his parents was an American citizen.

It's humorous that in order to get a driver's license in California you have to submit your birth certificate, but you don't have to do that to become POTUS. We probably won't know the truth until Obama is out of office, and I think there's enough doubt to leave open the possibility that he attained the presidency through fraud in this area.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

It's humorous that in order to get a driver's license in California you have to submit your birth certificate, but you don't have to do that to become POTUS.

Do you have to submit your birth certificate to get a driver's license in every state?

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

We probably won't know the truth until Obama is out of office, and I think there's enough doubt to leave open the possibility that he attained the presidency through fraud in this area.

I'm not gonna make any claims at potential fraud or not, but I think it's pretty likely something embarrassing or politically damaging is on there at the very least.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Probably I've heard actual Constitutional lawyers say the same thing.

You must be mistaken. Your parentage doesn't matter if you were born in the United States. Woodrow Wilson's mother, for example, was Scottish.

[andi*pandi]

I hear George Washington was born in England.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I hear George Washington was born in England.

He was born in Virginia.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Do you have to submit your birth certificate to get a driver's license in every state?

You do in Arizona, and the computer COLB is not acceptable.

[nonhuman]

Somewhat amusingly, I went to the lounge, saw this thread as the most recent Pol Lounge thread with my username under it as the most recent poster, had a brainfart and thought the title was '0bama NOT HUMAN???!!'.

[Dakar V]

I hear Virginia wasn't even part of the United States back then.

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm not even sure where I would get my "original" birth certificate. I assume it's somewhere.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I hear George Washington was born in England.

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

He was born in Virginia.

The natural born requirement applies to those born after the Constitution was ratified only.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

The natural born requirement applies to those born after the Constitution was ratified only.

How was the fact that they were joking not obvious?

[sek929]

So the Democrats hoot and holler in 2001 at the fraud surrounding the GWB election, and now it's the Republicans' turn to whine and cry about the possibility of the guy they didn't vote for not belonging in office...

Anything good on TV tonight?

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I'm not even sure where I would get my "original" birth certificate. I assume it's somewhere.

Contact the state where you were born. You'll probably have to pay a fee, but you can get a couple copies from them. It's how I was able to get a copy so I could get a US passport.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Contact the state where you were born. You'll probably have to pay a fee, but you can get a couple copies from them. It's how I was able to get a copy so I could get a US passport.

Yeah, I know that, but is that enough to satisfy the birth certificate police? I get the feeling that the critics in this case don't trust the state of Hawaii's records.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I'm not even sure where I would get my "original" birth certificate. I assume it's somewhere.

I went to the Az. Dept. of Vital Records. Both are available. There is a large sign saying that the computer short form is not acceptable for use as ID for obtaining a drivers license or passport, or for use as ID at the Mexican or Canadian borders (at that time, a passport is required now).

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Says who? I don't like him because he's a Democrat, not because he's black. I don't give a rats ass about political correctness. I really don't. But I couldn't care less what the color of his skin is. Trust me, after 11 ships and subs, 20 years in the Navy, and almost all the way around the world, I've work with more nationalities than people in your hometown.

Hint: I never mentioned race at all. What I said still stands: You'll latch onto any attempt to make 0bama look bad, disregarding whether or not it makes any sense whatsoever.

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

He was born in Virginia.

what about his parents?

(yes, I'm joking, and aware the law wasn't in place then.)

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

what about his parents?

(yes, I'm joking, and aware the law wasn't in place then.)

He didn't have any; I'm pretty sure he sprung fully formed from the cherry tree that he, himself chopped down.

[Dakar V]

I thought he chopped his way out of it.

Ben Franklin also came out of a tree, though his birth was when lightning split it open.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

what about his parents?

(yes, I'm joking, and aware the law wasn't in place then.)

Joking aside, they were also born in Virginia.

[hyteckit]

Title of thread - FAILED

Obama is a citizen!

[Dork.]

It's official now! (At least, it will be once the Senate acts in the coming days)....

Hawaii Reporter: Hawaii Reporter

Originally Posted by House Resolution 593

RESOLUTION

Recognizing and celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the entry of Hawaii into the Union as the 50th State.
...
Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961;

You see, all this silly drama is officially over. All it took (literally) was an act of Congress!

(Although, I suppose there is still the chance that Obama will perjure himself if he signs this bill into law....)

[BadKosh]

Any useful legislation scheduled any time soon?

Just making some stupid statement of congratulations to Hawaii for being around isn't a reason to make up some BS to cover the fact that there are OBVIOUS issues with 0bamas citizenship. 0bama is unable to PROVE he is a citizen which is why is he ignoring the subject, and unable to show he IS an American. Where is the oversite?

[Laminar]

Still with the "Zero"bama? I thought we were done with that.

[wallinbl]

This topic is about as sensible as this woman: http://cfecon.blogspot.com/2009/07/h...lifornias.html

[ort888]

Anyone who thinks Obama is not actually a citizen and is involved in some sort of conspiracy to cover up his true origin is a xenophopic fearful lunatic.

There, I said it.

If you are a birther, you are an fearful ignorant boob. That's about all there is to it. Why do we continue to even discus this?

If you don't like Obama because of his policies, then attack his policies. Stop bringing down the conversation to this foil hat wearing conspiracy crap.

Are you guys really so terrified of foreigners that you can't let this go? I don't get it.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Anyone who thinks Obama is not actually a citizen and is involved in some sort of conspiracy to cover up his true origin is a xenophopic fearful lunatic.

You know, that's exactly what they want you to think....

[Rumor]

snopes.com: Barack Obama Birth Certificate

His birth certificate looks similar to mine (which is from Hawaii also).

[SpaceMonkey]

Everyone knows that the real reason Obama is hiding his birth certificate is that his actual name is Cliff Huxtable.

[BadKosh]

Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real - USATODAY.com

Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real?

By Dan Nakaso, The Honolulu Advertiser
In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated this afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives.

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

On Oct. 31, Fukino originally tried to put an end to the belief among so-called "birthers" that Obama was not born in the United States and thus was ineligible to run for the office of president.

Despite Fukino's statement today, the issue continued to resonate from Capitol Hill to the national airwaves to the blogosphere.

CNN's Lou Dobbs reported that Hawaii officials had destroyed Obama's original 1961 birth certificate without citing a source.

A congressional resolution introduced by Hawaii Rep. Neil Abercrombie commemorating the 50th anniversary of Island statehood was postponed today apparently because of a "whereas" clause noting Obama's Hawaii birthplace.

The line "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961;" has been construed by some who believe Obama is not a U.S.-born citizen as a thinly veiled attempt to get Congress to affirm Obama's U.S. Citizenship," Abercrombie spokesman Dave Helfert said.

So-called "birthers" denounce the notion that Obama was born in Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, despite court rulings and statements by Fukino and Hawaii's Republican governor, Linda Lingle.

Abercrombie's office had already issued a statement today announcing the House's unanimous approval of Abercrombie's resolution when Minnesota Republican Congresswoman Michele Bachmann rose today to object to the vote, saying there was not a quorum present.

Before Bachman's objection, Abercrombie spokesman Helfert had said some birthers believe the resolution "means the House of Representatives is on the record that Hawaii is the birthplace of the president of the United States."

================================================== =
So what value is that LIVE BIRTH document? Just because a baby was presented as “IF” he was born in Hawaii doesn’t mean this is a fact. 0bama is HIDING SOMETHING!
================================================== =
I FOUND THIS :


Democrat: Obama's grandma confirms Kenyan birth

Democrat: Obama's grandma confirms Kenyan birth
'This has been a real sham he's pulled off for the last 20 months'

The Pennsylvania Democrat who has sued Sen. Barack Obama demanding he prove his American citizenship – and therefore qualification to run for president – has confirmed he has a recording of a telephone call from the senator's paternal grandmother confirming his birth in Kenya.

The issue of Obama's birthplace, which he states is Honolulu in 1961, has been raised enough times that his campaign website has posted an image purporting to be of his "Certification of Live Birth" from Hawaii.(REPEAT THIS OFTEN)

But Philip J. Berg, a former deputy attorney general for Pennsylvania, told the Michael Savage talk radio program tonight that the document is forged and that he has a tape recording he will soon release.

"This has been a real sham he's pulled off for the last 20 months," Berg told Savage. "I'll release it [the tape] in a day or two, affidavits from her talking to a certain person. I heard the tape. She was speaking [to someone] here in the United States."

He said the telephone call was from Obama's paternal grandmother affirming she "was in the delivery room in Kenya when he was born Aug. 4, 1961."

Berg said he's pursuing the issue because of "the most important document in the United States," the U.S. Constitution.

"Nothing is more important than enforcing the Constitution," he said. "The Constitution's provisions are very small for qualifying for president. One, be over 35, and he is. Two, be in the country 14 years, and he has been. Three, be a natural-born citizen. He is not."

Obama campaign officials acknowledged the dispute by posting the image purporting to be a copy of his certification of live birth earlier this year. But they've declined to return WND requests for comment on the issues.

WND reported earlier this week Berg's claim that Obama has legally "admitted" the accusations included in his lawsuit, including that he was born in Mombosa, Kenya, by not responding to the allegations.

Berg filed suit in U.S. District Court in August alleging Obama is not a natural-born citizen and is thus ineligible to serve as president of the United States.

His lawsuit is demanding that the courts verify Obama's original birth certificate.

Berg has cited Rule 36 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which states that unless the accused party provides written answer or objection to charges within 30 days, the accused legally admits the matter.

Since Obama filed only motions to dismiss the case and did not actually answer the claims, according to Rule 36, Obama has legally admitted he is not a natural-born citizen., asserted Berg, who has taken his information public through his website.

Berg addressed the existence of a birth announcement in the Honolulu Advertiser newspaper, featured on the Atlasshrugs2000 website, that suggests Obama was born in the city Aug. 4, 1961.

But Berg explained to Savage he believes Obama's mother was near the end of her pregnancy and unable to travel by plane, so Obama was born in Kenya. The family then traveled to Hawaii and registered the birth and submitted the newspaper announcement.

Besides Berg's lawsuit, several other court challenges also have been filed, including one in Washington state where petitioners are seeking to have the Washington secretary of state "verify Obama's eligibility" to serve prior to the election.

The claim states, "The 'certificate' that Mr. Obama has posted on his official Website is a 'Certification of Live Birth,' and not a 'Birth Certificate' from Hawaii. There is no indication on even this certificate as to specifically where the birth took place."

Berg also told Savage there is no information available on which hospital Obama's mother used in Hawaii.

The Washington state case also alleges, "Wayne Madsen, Journalist with Online Journal as a contributing writer and published an article on June 9, 2008, stating that a research team went to Mombassa, Kenya, and located a Certificate Registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr. at a Kenya Maternity Hospital, to his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a U.S. citizen.

When Jerome Corsi, senior WND investigator reporter, recently traveled to Kenya to investigate several questions about the candidate, he was told the records were sealed and would not be made available.

Though it hasn't given Berg the evidence he seeks, the Obama campaign has publicly answered allegations that the candidate was born in Kenya and faked his Hawaii birth certificate.

"Smears claiming Barack Obama doesn't have a birth certificate aren't actually about that piece of paper," says the "Fight the Smears" section of Obama's website, "they're about manipulating people into thinking Barack is not an American citizen.

"The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a native citizen of the United States of America," the campaign website states. It also includes images of the Hawaii certificate bearing the name Barack Hussein Obama II.

The Washington claim states, "If in fact Obama was born in Kenya, the laws on the books in the United States at the time of his birth stated if a child is born abroad and one parent was a U.S. Citizen, which would have been his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's mother would have had to live ten (10) years in the United States, five (5) of which were after the age of fourteen (14). At the time of Obama's birth, his mother was only eighteen (18) and therefore did not meet the residency requirements under the law to give her son (Obama) U.S. Citizenship much less the status of 'natural born.'"

Berg said he believed it also was a complication that Obama's mother divorced his father, married and moved to Indonesia for several years and Obama attended school there at a time when, Berg said, only Indonesia citizens were allowed in schools. Records that are available from Indonesia revealed Obama was registered in school as Barry Soetoro, and his religion was listed as Islam.

When Obama later returned to Hawaii, within the United States, there should have been a government document affirming his citizenship, but that also cannot be found. If that was not processed properly, Berg said, Obama would be in a situation even worse than not being a natural-born citizen.

"If he didn't go through immigration, he now is illegal and has been an illegal alien. He couldn't even hold the position of senator for Illinois," Berg said.

Further, Berg said he suspected Obama's college records may indicate he received aid as a foreigner, and that's why those records have been withheld by the campaign.

"I really think it's because it probably indicates he's from Kenya, or Indonesia, or received foreign aid," Berg said.

"I feel very confident saying these things," Berg told Savage.

[SpaceMonkey]

The real reason why these things never die is that people keep linking to 8 month old articles and expecting you to debunk them all over again.

http://washingtonindependent.com/524...zenship-rumors

In the final months of the 2008 presidential race, Sen. John McCain’s (R-Ariz.) campaign learned of a lawsuit filed in Pennsylvania that asked the state to strip Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) of the Democratic nomination on suspicion that he was not an American citizen....One lawyer who was doing some work for the campaign was tasked with reading Berg’s lawsuit and gauging its chances of success. “The conversation was along the lines of ‘this is idiotic, but explain to me why,’” said the lawyer, who spoke under condition of anonymity to TWI.

[wallinbl]

If I put up a website with the word news in the URL and start reporting outlandish, unsubstantiated crap on it, will you believe that as well?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

If I put up a website with the word news in the URL and start reporting outlandish, unsubstantiated crap on it, will you believe that as well?

As long as it's in line with my preconceived views, yes.

[stupendousman]

Apparently Lou Dobbs has reported that the original birth certificate was destroyed for some reason. That of course, would make for some pretty interesting political intrigue.

It's my understanding is that Obama's grandma says he was born in Kenya, and all there is to prove he was born in Hawaii was a certificate made by an official in Hawaii that is supposed to affirm what's on the official birth certificate. For some reason, they won't release the entire birth record.

Wouldn't REALLY this all be cleared up if they'd just release the one document that they refuse to release for some reason? Why won't they? THAT is the one million dollar question.

[BadKosh]

THAT is why the controversy continues. I say he DOESN'T have proof. That would make his time as Senator and President as fraud. I don't know the constitutional law, but what happens to any bills signed by a non-citizen?

[Big Mac]

The country goes into the Way Back Machine for a redo.