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Police discrimination, misconduct, Ferguson, MO, the Roman Legion, and now math??? (Page 17)
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Originally Posted by Chongo
On which charge?
2nd Degree Murder and all lesser included offenses seems appropriate given the circumstances.
OAW
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45/47
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Originally Posted by BadKosh
Am I missing something there?
The article says the prosecutor was unusually fair by not trying to get an indictment, then the last paragraph says the public expect prosecutors not to go after cops the way they would others. Isn't that exactly what he did by being unusually fair and not secretly pursuing an indictment?
Sounds more like the prosecutor did exactly what was expected and covered for the cop while releasing all the evidence so he covered his own ass too.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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So we should ignore the opinions of "legal scholars" ? We should instead listen to protestors who have NO IDEA what any of the evidence presented was?
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Because gentle giants is used sarcastically. We all know that in reality any black man over 6' needs to feed off the blood of white men in power.
.
Gentle theft and assault by the giant caught on video:
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Originally Posted by Powerbook
Gentle theft and assault by the giant caught on video:
You weren't referring to Brown, so what are you trying to prove?
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Originally Posted by OAW
Not sure what you are reading Dakar ... but Mike Brown's body was approximately 150 feet from Wilson's SUV. McCulloch acknowledged that publicly in his press conference. Those distances are using a baseline of a nearby cross street.
OAW
You didn't read my post then. I noted the SUV was at the 200 ft. marker and Brown's body at the 50 ft. marker. The difference being 150 ft.
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Originally Posted by Snow-i
I also don't see any evidence that excessive force was used in this altercation.
Is eyewitness testimony not evidence? 10 bullets being fired?
Originally Posted by Snow-i
And 2 grand juries disagreed when presented with the evidence.
You do realize that one of the complaints was the grand jury was set-up not to indict, right? And in light of the unusual choice the prosecutor made in a) not actively pursuing an indictment, b) not appointing a special prosecutor, c) using a rare method of presenting the the evidence, this claim is believable, yes?
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Originally Posted by OAW
Just read through 181 pages of Dorian Johnson's testimony. His testimony seems entirely consistent with what he's said from the very beginning. The main "discrepancy" his statement has with the physical evidence is that he says Wilson fired at Brown once from inside the vehicle ... striking him. And that's when Wilson let Brown go and they took off running. But there were two shell casings found in the vicinity of the SUV door. He says he doesn't recall a second shot while Wilson was in the car. But he grew up in a gang infested neighborhood and has been shot once before and shot at multiple times walking home from school so he was in "shock" when that happened. He does say when Wilson got out of the vehicle he took a second shot while Brown was running away and it looked like it may have "grazed" Brown because of the way is body jerked. It's unclear how far Wilson may have been from the SUV when he took that second shot.
Grand Jury Volume 04: Dorian Johnson
If you're looking for impartiality, Johnson's testimony has to be thrown out with Wilson's. Both are too personally involved. I look for better impartiality from all the other eyewitnesses.
Originally Posted by subego
If you're facing 12 o'clock, they eject between about 1:30 and 3, however, they tend to bounce and roll.
On pavement, right. But how far can the go? As I noted, they are behind the body.
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Originally Posted by BadKosh
So we should ignore the opinions of "legal scholars" ? We should instead listen to protestors who have NO IDEA what any of the evidence presented was?
Hahahaha. It's laughably clear that you're touting expert opinions because it's what you want to believe, not because there's any merit to what they're saying, or because you have an inclination to pay attention to what experts in any given subject matter say.
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Remember the brouhaha over the incident report?
Darren Wilson and the Protocols of Official Exoneration (What you didnt hear from Prosecutor speech) : The Jack Blood Show
Asked if he had filled out an incident report on the shooting, Wilson explained that the “protocol” in such cases is to “contact your FOP [Fraternal Order of Police] representative and he will advise you of what to do step by step.”
When asked if he had committed his recollections to paper in a diary or journal, Wilson replied: “My statement has been written for my attorney.”
“And that’s between you and your attorney, then?” asked the exceptionally helpful prosecutor, who received an affirmative reply.
“So no one has asked you to write out a statement?” the assistant DA persisted.
“No, they haven’t,” Wilson acknowledged.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
You weren't referring to Brown, so what are you trying to prove?
Look closely, they are all brown.
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Originally Posted by Powerbook
Look closely, they are all brown.
Who are all 'brown'?
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Originally Posted by Laminar
Hahahaha. It's laughably clear that you're touting expert opinions because it's what you want to believe, not because there's any merit to what they're saying, or because you have an inclination to pay attention to what experts in any given subject matter say.
You literally just described everyone in this thread
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
You weren't referring to Brown, so what are you trying to prove?
That Brown was likely a violent thug?
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"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Seriously. I get it. But it's like... Jesus ****ing christ. It PAINS me how dense everyone is when they let their emotions have a voice in their thoughts. Can anyone, you included, concede that there is a CHANCE your personal views MIGHT be wrong.
I swear this is the kind of shit that has killed this forum. Not you. Just this comical bullshit between the regulars. We could write each other's scripts. ****ing reddit or even Hacker News has better discourse than this shell of a community. And those places are full of stupid, white kids. Good times.
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Originally Posted by pooka
Seriously. I get it. But it's like... Jesus ****ing christ. It PAINS me how dense everyone is when they let their emotions have a voice in their thoughts. Can anyone, you included, concede that there is a CHANCE your personal views MIGHT be wrong.
I think you miss the point. Even if Brown was the second coming of Charles Manson, the police and local government didn't do a very good job of living up to their own rules, now did they? You could argue its not troubling since Brown deserved it, but can you reasonably trust they won't make exceptions in murkier cases to save their own skin?
Edit: Further, you're letting your emotions get in the way too. On just the last page I was questioning how Brown magically transported 25 feet from his furthest blood stains back towards the SUV.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
That Brown was likely a violent thug?
He wasn't referring to Brown.
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Originally Posted by pooka
You literally just described everyone in this thread
Subego takes exception to that.
Edit: I really need to use the multiquote feature and stop spamming this shit
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
On pavement, right. But how far can the go? As I noted, they are behind the body.
Here are my guesses in order of probability:
1) Wilson backed up as he was shooting.
2) They bounced over there.
3) Someone moved them there.
Three is made more unlikely by them being behind Brown. If I were planting evidence, I'd put the brass where you'd think it would go.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Subego takes exception to that.
I was like, "waitaminnit".
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Originally Posted by subego
Here are my guesses in order of probability:
1) Wilson backed up as he was shooting.
2) They bounced over there.
3) Someone moved them there.
Three is made more unlikely by them being behind Brown. If I were planting evidence, I'd put the brass where you'd think it would go.
Let me clear, I don't think anyone moved them. That's crazy levels of corruption (plus, they were in full view of the public. Someone would have noticed). And I do agree that they make sense if Wilson was backing up, but I'm still confused why there aren't any in front of the body.
This isn't an accusation of wrong-doing (pooka). This is a plea for clarification of the physics of ejected rounds. It's not like Wilson could have grabbed Browns body and dragged it closer to the SUV to make it fit another narrative, either.
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An added point is how tall Wilson is. In addition to whatever velocity they pick up from the ejection process, they had to fall 6 feet as well.
The longer they have to fall, the longer they maintain momentum from the ejection force.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
If you're looking for impartiality, Johnson's testimony has to be thrown out with Wilson's. Both are too personally involved. I look for better impartiality from all the other eyewitnesses.
But there is a difference: it was Wilson who potentially faced a criminal trial over the Brown's death. And if the accused's testimony on the course of events is not credible (and I don't think it is), it casts doubt on Wilson's character as a whole. Put another way, Wilson's testimony IMHO works against him, because the story he tells sounds like an a posteriori fabrication to make it fit the whole narrative. Ditto for the lack of care during evidence collection.
Originally Posted by BadKosh
So we should ignore the opinions of "legal scholars" ? We should instead listen to protestors who have NO IDEA what any of the evidence presented was?
The protestors are not just going to the street to vent their anger and frustration with how Wilson will not even be tried (which may depend on legal minutiae), but protestors complain about mistreatment of people of color by cops which may amount to harassment but also may be deadly. Hence, Brown's murder is just the trigger but the not real problem, and if you want to understand what is going on, you have to keep that in mind.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
... I'm not sure the GJ could have done anything to him (Wilson), even if they felt the officer was using excessive force. The people who are protesting need to look at their laws and see what needs to be changed, there IS a system for that.
That's actually a good point: changing the laws is a necessary component here, certain behaviors by law enforcement (and others) should no longer be legal, there should be some criminal liability.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I think you miss the point.
No I didn't.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Edit: Further, you're letting your emotions get in the way too. On just the last page I was questioning how Brown magically transported 25 feet from his furthest blood stains back towards the SUV.
Again, nope. Neither you nor I are forensic examiners so I don't waste my time arm-chairing it like a dumbass. Because I'm just stupid/smart enough to know I don't know shit.
My point is that based on the perspectives I'm seeing, neither "side" is allowing for the possibility that their speculative bullshit is bullshit.
Full disclosure, I give zero ****s about internet slap fights. I've had fun interactions with law enforcement IRL throughout my life. I love the accusation that one of the regulars here slings my way (badge-licker). I don't love/hate cops. Most people in general ****ing SUCK and will LIE their asses off to save said ass. Often I'm talked down to like I don't "get" it. As I've said before, it's cute. I'm merely pointing out that just because some dumb-shit cop LAWYERS up before he possibly self-incriminates is funny as **** to me because it's EXACTLY what any other non-stupid-**** would do given the wonderful climate we all live in. AKA: being an ass-covering bunch of pansies.
The ascribing of motives and psychoanalysis the brain-trust that is MACNN is capable of performing rivals that of Nancy Grace. I don't understand why everyone here isn't rich and making serious bank off their mind-reading capabilities. Please.. continue explaining it to me. I'm daft. But I'm learning.
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Ferguson Grand Jury Evidence Reveals Mistakes, Holes In Investigation
None of this means Wilson is lying. All of it could be easily ascribed to incompetence. The problem is that when dealing with such a socially charged event, making this many mistakes reduces the amount of evidence, makes the remaining evidence less reliable, and in turn enables conspiracy theories and justifies doubt from detractors.
i.e., Wilson could have done everything right, but his department did a lot wrong if it wanted to help him demonstrate that.
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Also, Dakar, I'm not needling you out of spite. I actually like you and you seem intelligent and quite possibly attractive which are both very admirable in my book. I often ignore arguing with others because picking on retards is just mean.
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Clinically Insane
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To clarify my position, which I've pretty much maintained since the beginning.
1) This case is unwinnable.
2) Prosecutors loathe trying cases they can't win.
3) Cops tend to be racists.
4) If cops don't start out racist, the job pushes them that way.
5) Even racist cops usually don't unload an entire clip into someone who's surrendering, in broad daylight, in front of witnesses.
6) It's a "magazine", not a "clip"... dumbass.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Or Wilson's department is trying to protects him by, say, not collecting evidence properly and shaping his testimony to fit the narrative they want. In any case, it doesn't help Wilson in the end because of all this makes him suspect in the eyes of a significant part of the public.
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Originally Posted by subego
To clarify my position, which I've pretty much maintained since the beginning.
1) This case is unwinnable.
A trial could have helped Wilson by trying to publicly establish what has happened. I don't think it'll convince people who have made up their mind, but what's happening is much worse, because it looks as if prosecution and defense are in cahoots to not try this case in the first place.
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
because of all this makes him suspect in the eyes of a significant part of the public.
I'm sure he cares
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Originally Posted by pooka
Again, nope. Neither you nor I are forensic examiners so I don't waste my time arm-chairing it like a dumbass. Because I'm just stupid/smart enough to know I don't know shit.
And I'm claiming I do? Oh, wait, no I'm not.
Originally Posted by pooka
My point is that based on the perspectives I'm seeing, neither "side" is allowing for the possibility that their speculative bullshit is bullshit.
If you think all speculation is bullshit, there's no reasoning with you.
Originally Posted by pooka
Full disclosure, I give zero ****s about internet slap fights. I've had fun interactions with law enforcement IRL throughout my life. I love the accusation that one of the regulars here slings my way (badge-licker). I don't love/hate cops. Most people in general ****ing SUCK and will LIE their asses off to save said ass. Often I'm talked down to like I don't "get" it. As I've said before, it's cute. I'm merely pointing out that just because some dumb-shit cop LAWYERS up before he possibly self-incriminates is funny as **** to me because it's EXACTLY what any other non-stupid-**** would do given the wonderful climate we all live in. AKA: being an ass-covering bunch of pansies.
The ascribing of motives and psychoanalysis the brain-trust that is MACNN is capable of performing rivals that of Nancy Grace. I don't understand why everyone here isn't rich and making serious bank off their mind-reading capabilities. Please.. continue explaining it to me. I'm daft. But I'm learning.
What I'm getting from this is that your an unimaginative misanthrope who disdains people searching for answers and providing their theories. Perhaps you're too self-centered to care, but some of us try to make sense of the world we live in, hoping that if maybe we can find the answer we might be able to improve it.
Go wallow in your misery somewhere else.
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Originally Posted by subego
To clarify my position, which I've pretty much maintained since the beginning.
1) This case is unwinnable.
I agree. And to anyone who might point out that GJ verdict saved everyone a lot of time, I'd rebut that sometimes the process is as important as the outcome. I feel safe saying the only reason there was a GJ investigation was because of the protests.
Originally Posted by subego
6) It's a "magazine", not a "clip"... dumbass.
Reality check: Language evolves and words meanings change. In laymen terms they are interchangeable, whether you like it or not.
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
A trial could have helped Wilson by trying to publicly establish what has happened. I don't think it'll convince people who have made up their mind, but what's happening is much worse, because it looks as if prosecution and defense are in cahoots to not try this case in the first place.
My reply to this is number two on my list of positions.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Reality check: Language evolves and words meanings change. In laymen terms they are interchangeable, whether you like it or not.
Whoosh!
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Originally Posted by subego
My reply to this is number two on my list of positions.
I don't think this applies here: there is tremendous public pressure to try this case. I'm sure every prosecutor in the county was dreading this case, because no matter what happens it'll leave shit stains on your career. Besides, the purpose of a trial is not just to make a conviction but to establish the »truth« in the eyes of the law.
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Originally Posted by subego
Whoosh!
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
I don't think this applies here: there is tremendous public pressure to try this case. I'm sure every prosecutor in the county was dreading this case, because no matter what happens it'll leave shit stains on your career. Besides, the purpose of a trial is not just to make a conviction but to establish the »truth« in the eyes of the law.
I was thinking, this case amply demonstrates why electing prosecutors might not be the best policy. Maybe we should start appointing them, like justices.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
And to anyone who might point out that GJ verdict saved everyone a lot of time, I'd rebut that sometimes the process is as important as the outcome. I feel safe saying the only reason there was a GJ investigation was because of the protests.
Agreed, 100%. The GJ was a CYA maneuver by the prosecutor. He can say he (sorta) tried.
If it wasn't a GJ state, then you'd get the Trayvon Martin case.
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Originally Posted by pooka
I'm sure he cares
Maybe he doesn't, but there have been protests all around the US in protest of the Grand Jury's decision.
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
What I'm getting from this is that your an unimaginative misanthrope who disdains people searching for answers and providing their theories. Perhaps you're too self-centered to care, but some of us try to make sense of the world we live in, hoping that if maybe we can find the answer we might be able to improve it.
Go wallow in your misery somewhere else.
Welp, can't argue with that real-time myers briggs test. Enjoy the pond, big fish!
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
I don't think this applies here: there is tremendous public pressure to try this case. I'm sure every prosecutor in the county was dreading this case, because no matter what happens it'll leave shit stains on your career. Besides, the purpose of a trial is not just to make a conviction but to establish the »truth« in the eyes of the law.
I feel like there are pieces missing from your argument.
What's the motivation for a prosecutor to leave a shit stain across their career to exonerate someone when they can protect their career and let the accused off with a GJ?
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I was thinking, this case amply demonstrates why electing prosecutors might not be the best policy. Maybe we should start appointing them, like justices.
And it segues into my complaint about prosecutors using their win rate as political capital. There needs to be a (say) 5 year ban between being a prosecutor and running for office.
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Originally Posted by subego
=What's the motivation for a prosecutor to leave a shit stain across their career to exonerate someone when they can protect their career and let the accused off with a GJ?
Don't let a possible reality get in the way of your moral outrage, misanthrope. You must channel your inner mind-pussy in order to pound your fists and force man to overcome his own self-centered, self-serving oral fornicative actions.
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Originally Posted by pooka
Welp, can't argue with that real-time myers briggs test.
You can, but you're in here remarking you're above the fray while sniping at us who are willing to actually say something.
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Originally Posted by pooka
inner mind-pussy
Sounds like an album title. Also, definition?
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status:
Offline
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Oh, I know I'm a misanthrope. No GJ needed to prove that.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status:
Offline
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
I don't think this applies here: there is tremendous public pressure to try this case.
There's tremendous pressure from a silent majority not to, as well.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: type 13 planet
Status:
Offline
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
You can, but you're in here remarking you're above the fray while sniping at us who are willing to actually say something.
Often people who are overly sensitive, emotional and insecure project the sort of shit you're slinging my way. Have whatever fun you want. I, in no shape or form, feel that I am above anything. Merely stating my opinion that this place has gone to shit, the sitcom-predictable narratives for most posters... it doesn't matter. Man, I really and truly don't care. Just lamenting the good ole days before the Iraq shit when this place had some interesting content. It was challenging and I personally learned/grew a lot. That's all. My trite way of saying goodbye to an old stomping ground. peace out.
*deactivates facebook*
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