[smacintush]

The essence of liberal politics: If it's important someone else should be made to pay for it by force.

I hereby dub this: Obamaducation

First thing that is wrong with this...obviously...is that this is (yet again) taking money from people who earned it and using it to pay for education for people who didn't earn shit. Of course, this is what we do now in America so this proposal isn't really surprising.

Second: COMMUNITY COLLEGE? The President said that this will enable us compete with anyone in the world. Yeah, because nothing says success like...community college. They students have 20% completion rate and they take 150% the time. The proposed practical effect of this will be nil. It will have the effect however, of keeping people on the government dime another couple of years.

Third: This is not free of course. It will cost probably at least 30-40 billion at first, which will of course go up. This will have the same effect that regular college tuition welfare and cheap, easy government student loans has, it will encourage community colleges to raise tuition rates across the board in order to get more free money.

Of course the real reason for this is that this is a POLITICAL winner for Obama. If the GOP fights him on such a (likely to be) popular plan they look bad. If they go along Obama looks good. Everything Obama proposes has this pattern. Political winners for him that the GOP are likely to oppose.

[BadKosh]

He has nothing but LIBERAL DISASTERS to show for his hideous terms in office. How many ways can Obama and the Democrats waste tax dollars? Any checks and balances? Nope, that would be one of those pesky things Repubs would do. He's again using STATE tax dollars to fund his Illegals-free-College program. I suggest ALL the money comes from TSA/DHS.

[subego]

I think they're going to go ObamEd, and then pronounce it Oba-MAHED! as necessary.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

The wage difference between a 2-year degree from a CC and simply having a HS diploma or GED is virtually naught. At this point one has to believe he's desperate to find anything that will help him build any type of legacy (since Obamacare won't last 6 months after he leaves office), because this is just a piss-poor idea, from nearly every angle.

[The Final Dakar]

I feel like there is a chunk of people out there who say that you don't need to go to fancy schmancy universities and go 10s of thousands of dollars in debt to get an education. I wonder if they'll stop by this thread.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

They students have 20% completion rate and they take 150% the time.

Isn't this likely more a function of the types of people who go to CC rather than the quality of instruction?

[OAW]

We all know that most decent jobs require some sort of higher education. The days of earning a middle class living from a high school education alone are a thing of the past. This proposal is essentially about extending public education for 2 more years after the completion of high school n'est-ce pas?

OAW

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Isn't this likely more a function of the types of people who go to CC rather than the quality of instruction?

If true, then what will be the effect when community colleges are treated as yet another welfare program?

What will the incentive be for the community colleges to improve or even maintain quality standards if we treat them even more like an extension of the public government school system?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

If true

Well, what do you think?

Originally Posted by smacintush 

What will the incentive be for the community colleges to improve or even maintain quality standards if we treat them even more like an extension of the public government school system?

To hear you speak of them, they practically couldn't get any worse.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Anything can get worse, as this administration has repeatedly shown. When something has little or no cost, either financially or personally, it has no value. Colleges already hand out low level degrees to virtually anyone who can be bothered to attend most of their classes.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Well, what do you think?

You may be correct, I don't know. I think it is likely that this is only part of the problem. I do think that community colleges suffer some of the same problem as universities, courses of study that don't mean shit in the job market and idiotic class requirements like a philosophy or sociology course in a computer related degree program. Couple that with the relative lower costs and not having to be "accepted", and it's easy to just walk away. People (adults) in general want to be educated I believe, they just don't want to feel like they are wasting their time.

To hear you speak of them, they practically couldn't get any worse.

I didn't mean to come across that way.

[The Final Dakar]

The way I see it, our society is more likely to equate the value of the education to its monetary cost than anything else. In that regard, the point about CCs being a worthless education is quite apt. If some enterprising people, however, decide to use it as a stepping stone and cost-cutting measure to a four-year college, it could be valuable.

[BadKosh]

Will we have to listen to his BS all over again during the Snake of the Union show?

Will it be more taunts, lies, mischaracterization's, fiction stated as fact, and all those plans he still has to waste taxpayer dollars on poorly conceived ideas, and who's priority is at the bottom of the list, like his idiotic health care disaster.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

The way I see it, our society is more likely to equate the value of the education to its monetary cost than anything else. In that regard, the point about CCs being a worthless education is quite apt. If some enterprising people, however, decide to use it as a stepping stone and cost-cutting measure to a four-year college, it could be valuable.

I'm not going to say education is worthless, but that shit they make you pay out the ass for years on end is worthless. Especially with the Internet.

One of the fundamental mistakes we've made as a society is correlating education with institutions whose primary purpose is to scam you for money.

The big irony is the smarter you are, the more of a waste the thing is. If you're a little dull, at least you leave with something you can use to appear more polished.

Not that anyone can get a job out of a Liberal Arts degree anymore. That ship sailed about 20 years ago.

[el chupacabra]

I read an article in 2004 showing a graph from 1930's on that claimed tuition costs have gone up 7 fold even when inflation was considered. These are the only articles I can find in 2 minutes

College Has Gotten 12 Times More Expensive in One Generation | Mother Jones

CHARTS: Just How Fast Has College Tuition Grown? - US News.

This suggests that in the past no matter how far back you go, the government did foot a larger percentage of tuition costs to the point where it might be considered practically free by today's standards. If true that would make Obama's proposal a conservative proposal, not liberal. Although Im also fine with fully privatizing education and getting government out of education altogether.

(To fund Obama's plan would be easy as taking 10 bil from DoD, 10 bil from DHS, 10 bil foodstamps, 700 bil from paying people not to farm, 2 trillion from RE bailouts, and 10 bil from liberal arts funding.)

Here are some of the programs which can be 100% completed at CC. Things that actually have a practical purpose.

Automotive technology
Electrician
Carpentry
Computer aided design
Diesel technician
Hvac tech
Industrial mechanic
Machining and CNC tech
Welding
Administrative Assistant
Fire fighter
Nursing
Medical Assistant

Im surprised people think cc education is worthless. All the jobs listed are necessities in society regardless of how low you think they pay, this can't be said of most degrees offered by 4 year institutions. Some jobs only exist because government requires them to exist by bureaucratically complicating otherwise simple things. Jobs like accountant, Lawyer, real estate agent, just to name a few. Meanwhile CC tech certs likely pay more than a BS in a number of majors such as Food Science or Interior Design etc..

Community college tuition plan is a game changer - Baltimore Sun

CA Community Colleges To offer Bachelors
Why haven't community colleges offered 4 year degrees in the past?

[BadKosh]

King Abdullah "Could Not Stand" Obama!

So when Obama tells you what friends he has, just remember HE'S LYING AGAIN.


NBC's Richard Engel: King Abdullah "Could Not Stand" Obama | Video | RealClearPolitics

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

King Abdullah "Could Not Stand" Obama!]

I don't see how he gets his community college proposal through congress in light of this. Just devastating.

[subego]

Abdullah obviously didn't get enough free stuff.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

Abdullah obviously didn't get enough free stuff.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I feel like there is a chunk of people out there who say that you don't need to go to fancy schmancy universities and go 10s of thousands of dollars in debt to get an education. I wonder if they'll stop by this thread.

Definitely need the education, definitely need to do without the debt.

Tuition welfare is not the way to do it - keeping tuition low absolutely is.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by subego 

Abdullah obviously didn't get enough free stuff.

More like the US has been asking for free stuff (super cheap oil) for too long.

[BadKosh]

boy THATS the fracking truth....

[The Final Dakar]

Well we got that cheap oil. Too cheap some say.