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Game of Thrones TV series (SPOILERS) (Page 3)
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Anyone have any specific name of irrelevant side characters and their related plots that have bugged them? I'm drawing a blank at the moment. Put in spoiler tags, of course.
All of Feast of Crows. Also a lot of the side plots in A Dance with Dragons, like . Why can't he show them his usual brand of mercy? In the older books... It's been a decade and a half, close enough - I don't remember what bugged me, other than that they spent too much time on
Brienne and Jaime walking through mud
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A lot has seemed like boring side trips. Anything overseas.
I quite liked Stannis's mercenary liegeman. Doomed.
At first I thought Brienne was just a side diversion, really just an extension of Jaime, and I didn't like either of them. But after my other favorite characters got killed, I started enjoying the expansion of their story, and especially her quest. Then I got very annoyed at having her die, by the hands of her one-time benefactor now vengeful zombie queen. I had real hope of her surviving because of their history... all it proved was that there wasn't much brain left in zombie queen, just a whole lot of irrational vengeance.
Really, imagine Lord of the Rings if Frodo dies at the end of book one, then samwise takes up the cause and dies at the end of book two, and then at the end of book 3 they're all dead and some new character no one has heard of has the ring of power.
Dorothy dies on the way to the Emerald City. And her little dog too.
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Errr, re: Brienne (beware spoilers for the curious!)
Seemed pretty clear to me that she is likely not dead. She screamed out a "name" at Catelyn while being hanged, and then her story ended. Pretty obvious set-up for her to have been spared. Did I miss anything after that?
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Errr, re: Brienne (beware spoilers for the curious!)
Seemed pretty clear to me that she is likely not dead. She screamed out a "name" at Catelyn while being hanged, and then her story ended. Pretty obvious set-up for her to have been spared. Did I miss anything after that?
I have lost all hope of any of my favorite characters surviving, beyond the slight chance that Brienne and Catelyn become a pair of maurading vengeful zombies.
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Finally got around to watching the entire series. Having read the books, it's quite interesting to see how they manage to leave the thread of the books and yet still get back to hit all the main points in the series.
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Just finished book 3. I hope they do justice to the second half of that book for season 4. I'd like some MAJOR battles, LOTR-film style.
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I finally binged and caught up to the present with the TV series. Here's a question for the book readers, since the TV series doesn't explain it.
In the Nights Watch. Why does Alliser Thorne stick by Janos Slynt? Janos has all the traits Thorne hates in recruits: cowardice, weakness, unreliability. After Thorne trusts him with command on the Wall, then with running his election campaign, Janos screws up further. Why are these two friends at all, much less still close in High Sparrow (S5, episode 3)?
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That part doesn't follow the books very well (nothing does, at the moment - Sansa is going WHERE?), but in the books it plays out like this:
After being asked for support, Tywin Lannister sends Janos Slynt to the wall to take command, with lots of promises for all who would support him. Slynt then stands for election to the post of commander, with the support of Alliser Thorne, not the other way around. It is implied that Slynt has simply bribed supporters among the Watch to vote for him. The election in the books requires an absolute majority, and it is deadlocked between multiple candidates with two of Mormont's subcommanders (they hold the two castles at each end of the wall, I don't think we've even seen them in the series) taking most of the votes but neither reaching an actual majority. Over multiple election rounds, Slynt keeps gaining votes, coming up from behind while the two lead candidates only focus on each other. Sam Tarly then figures out what is going on, and convinces the two competing subcommanders to unite behind Jon Snow - neither of them wanting either Slynt nor the other to win. Slynt then hangs around as a malcontent and a Lannister spy after losing the election, eventually being executed in much the same way as it played out in the series, but somewhat later.
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I like tonight's episode.
The raven-delivered note Sam reads to Maester Aemon. I'm thinking it was sent by Varys. Which suggests Varys has reached Meereen ahead of Tyrion.
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For those not reading the books or keeping track, the TV show is now ahead of the books on several plot fronts. Very unfortunate but actually more exciting for TV viewers. This was predicted from the outset to be a problem and the answer just seems to be the obvious "well we're definitely not stopping the show". This season so far has been excellent, although we won't see what's happened with Bran north of the wall until next year.
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Strictly speaking the last scene with Bran from the last series was ahead of what has been published, although that chapter has been published on GRRMs website for a decade or so by now.
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I'd wondered why Bran hadn't made an appearance yet, even though we're halfway through Season 5.
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Didn't care much for last week's ep, though it had interesting moments.
I like this one though; The Gift.
It's about time Cersei was on the receiving end. Intolerant fanatics can be a nuisance when they get a taste of power.
Bronn's segment went completely different from what I was expecting.
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
For those not reading the books or keeping track, the TV show is now ahead of the books on several plot fronts. Very unfortunate but actually more exciting for TV viewers. This was predicted from the outset to be a problem and the answer just seems to be the obvious "well we're definitely not stopping the show". This season so far has been excellent, although we won't see what's happened with Bran north of the wall until next year.
GRRM pretty much quit writing as soon as HBO picked up the series.
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Originally Posted by reader50
I'd wondered why Bran hadn't made an appearance yet, even though we're halfway through Season 5.
I reckon that's because Martin hasn't figured out where the story goes from here (according to a friend who has read all the books what happened in the last episode of season 4 goes beyond what is in the books).
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I believe it was announced that Bran wouldn't be in this season at all.
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GRRM originally planned three books: A Game of Thrones, A Dance with Dragons, The Winds of Winter. He rather quickly added a fourth, A Clash of Kings as a new book 2, and eventually A Storm of Swords as the third. After that third book he planned to skip ahead about 5 years and pick up the story again with slightly older characters, and let us understand what had happened between the lines. After about two years, he gave up on this plan, and wrote A Feast for Crows as an account of those five years, and eventually split it into two, with some of the characters going into A Dance with Dragons, along with part of what was supposed to happen in those books.
The problem is that these two, books 4 and 5, each took about five years to write, and book 6 is now taking something like that as well. Meanwhile, the series has used up books 1-3 on 4 seasons, and has now moved on to the boring period in A Feast for Crows. This is why the show is now diverging from the books - those books are a bit dull as not a lot of important things are happening.
It also means that there are whole chapters of The Winds of Winter, written before A Feast for Crows was even started in 2003, that have been teased on GRRMs site for years and read by him at conventions. One of them is a Bran chapter which was used for the last episode of season 4. In fact, more than half of the book has apparently been teased at one time. I avoid such spoilers myself, but if you have been patient, you could have read most of the book by now.
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Originally Posted by reader50
Didn't care much for last week's ep, though it had interesting moments.
I like this one though; The Gift.
It's about time Cersei was on the receiving end. Intolerant fanatics can be a nuisance when they get a taste of power.
Bronn's segment went completely different from what I was expecting.
Even if I hadn't read the books, how could anyone not see it coming, since Lancel is now one of them and she'd committed two of the gravest sins of all (incest and adultery)? I can't wait for what's next for her. *whistles*
also
You know who Little Finger has for Lady Tyrell, right? Oh boy!
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Even if I hadn't read the books, how could anyone not see it coming, since Lancel is now one of them and she'd committed two of the gravest sins of all (incest and adultery)? I can't wait for what's next for her. *whistles*
You may have missed something I missed initially too. Recheck the Cersei / Lancel reunion conversation in S5 ep 1.
They've got Cersei for capital murder too. Apparently she and Lancel spiked King Robert's wine on that boar hunt to help him have an accident. I'd skipped over that conversation initially and missed it, but I'd been wondering about Robert's hunting accident for a while. Mostly because of the convenient timing.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
also
You know who Little Finger has for Lady Tyrell, right? Oh boy!
I was sure that was Lancel, even though the High Sparrow should have gotten those confessions already without help. Now I'm wondering if it's Gendry. We haven't seen him for a while, and he's got a better claim to the throne than Tommen.
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Stannis has a much better claim as Gendry is a bastard. Which is all moot anyways as Jon Snow is the son of House Start and House Targaryen.
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Admittedly I'm not caught up with the show, but...
The bastards, Gendry in particular, are only useful to indicate that Cersei's children were not fathered by Robert. The dark hair is dominant over the Lannister blonde, apparently. Bastards can only legally inherit if legitimized, usually by the king, which is... shall we say, unlikely.
This matters less than you think. If there is one thing the show has made clear it is that the throne is taken by whoever wins the civil war, claims be damned. Robert inherited based on an aunt who was the daughter of some king 100 years ago, but liked to say that his warhammer was his claim.
Jon Snow's parentage is only relevant because it indicates that he might be able to control one of the dragons. It isn't made clear in the series, I think, but the dragons sort of bond with one rider. One person cannot control more than one dragon, so Daenerys needs two other Targaryens if she's going to avoid her pets eating people.
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If you think the High Sparrow can't, or won't, legitimize and crown someone, well... I don't think you've been paying attention. He is the power in King's Landing, if not all of Westeros, right now. Unless you think a pair of pocket queens is a small hand in that game.
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Originally Posted by reader50
You may have missed something I missed initially too. Recheck the Cersei / Lancel reunion conversation in S5 ep 1.
They've got Cersei for capital murder too. Apparently she and Lancel spiked King Robert's wine on that boar hunt to help him have an accident. I'd skipped over that conversation initially and missed it, but I'd been wondering about Robert's hunting accident for a while. Mostly because of the convenient timing.
I thought about it, but that's not really the H Sparrow's thing, he's much more concerned with "base" sins. While I'm sure he'll use it if it's convenient, I don't believe it'll be necessary.
I was sure that was Lancel, even though the High Sparrow should have gotten those confessions already without help. Now I'm wondering if it's Gendry. We haven't seen him for a while, and he's got a better claim to the throne than Tommen.
It is. I'm still thinking we'll see a Gendry + Daenerys marriage, joining the two houses, with Jon as the Warden of the North (a "the more things change, the more they stay the same", kinda thing). As for controlling dragons, don't forget Bran. That's sort of what he's now "training" for.
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Shaddim, have you read the books? Because
there is supposedly another Targaryen around. Aegon, Rhaegar's son by Elia, survived - someone replaced the baby before the Sack of Kings Landing, so the Mountain killed someone else - which means that we have the three dragon riders we need, if Jon Snow is indeed the Targaryen heir we all now seem to think.
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Originally Posted by reader50
You may have missed something I missed initially too. Recheck the Cersei / Lancel reunion conversation in S5 ep 1.
They've got Cersei for capital murder too. Apparently she and Lancel spiked King Robert's wine on that boar hunt to help him have an accident. I'd skipped over that conversation initially and missed it, but I'd been wondering about Robert's hunting accident for a while. Mostly because of the convenient timing.
I thought …
… that Lancel just gave Robert extra strong wine, not wine that was laced with something.
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Wouldn't that be regicide?
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Originally Posted by P
Shaddim, have you read the books? Because
there is supposedly another Targaryen around. Aegon, Rhaegar's son by Elia, survived - someone replaced the baby before the Sack of Kings Landing, so the Mountain killed someone else - which means that we have the three dragon riders we need, if Jon Snow is indeed the Targaryen heir we all now seem to think.
Yep, I know Jon is likely Aeg, but I don't see Dany riding a dragon in battle, she isn't quite that reckless (or expendable).
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Jon most likely is Aegon due to the fact that Ned raised him, and he received Lord treatment. However, I wouldn't put it past GRRM (or the HBO writers) to have it be someone right in front of us but unsuspecting.
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Guys, final ep of season 4. The three-eyed raven tells Bran he will never walk again, but he will fly.
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Originally Posted by reader50
Guys, final ep of season 4. The three-eyed raven tells Bran he will never walk again, but he will fly.
I should have been more specific, but that's what I was talking about when I said that's what he's training for.
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Originally Posted by Rumor
Jon most likely is Aegon due to the fact that Ned raised him, and he received Lord treatment. However, I wouldn't put it past GRRM (or the HBO writers) to have it be someone right in front of us but unsuspecting.
Nope. Aegon is the son of Rhaegar and Elia Martell, supposedly killed by the Mountain in the Sack of King's Landing. Jon is described as having Stark features, so one of his parents must have been a Stark. The theory is that Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark had a child, and that that child is Jon (given the wording in the series, we pretty much know that Jon is not Ned's son, but he could be Lyanna's by someone else, or the son of some other Stark, but that doesn't explain why he had to be hidden). If Aegon has also survived - as at least Varys thinks, and he is rarely wrong - that makes them three.
There is a lot of symbolism there, as the original Aegon the Conquerer had two sisters, all three dragon riders, and they conquered Westeros the first time.
Originally Posted by reader50
Guys, final ep of season 4. The three-eyed raven tells Bran he will never walk again, but he will fly.
So he'd take control of a dragon and fly that way? Could be, if one of the Targaryen half-breeds turn out to be unable to control one. I think he will just control some bird of prey and live through that, though. He isn't exactly the most martial person.
Yep, I know Jon is likely Aeg, but I don't see Dany riding a dragon in battle, she isn't quite that reckless (or expendable).
That's how you use dragons in combat - unless you're a Valyrian sorcerer, who supposedly had some other tricks, but they have been lost for centuries. There are no historical reports of a dragon rider falling in combat at all, unless the other side also has dragons, as the dragons take great pains to protect their riders. Dany happily rides a dragon in ADWD, when she has other things she should be doing, and she clearly enjoys it - and she isn't particularly indispensable, if there are two more Targaryens with better claims.
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Originally Posted by P
So he'd take control of a dragon and fly that way? Could be, if one of the Targaryen half-breeds turn out to be unable to control one. I think he will just control some bird of prey and live through that, though. He isn't exactly the most martial person.
He is when he's controlling Hodor. Damn, when they're a "team" the big guy is practically a force of nature, it's pretty brutal. Plus, he's now being trained, which will make him more formidable.
and Dany IS rather indispensable, because she's the only legitimately born Targaryen left.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
and Dany IS rather indispensable, because she's the only legitimately born Targaryen left.
I guess this is confusing for those who have not read the books - and the fact that the show has to change some narratives - but no,
Jon is not Aegon. Griff is Aegon. Aegon obviously has as good or better a claim than Dany.
You haven't met him yet, but I would think that it happens fairly soon....
Edit: put stuff in spoilers. Also, if you want to investigate further, P and I had this conversation at the bottom of page 1/top of page 2. It's sort of funny that at that time, it was something that I/we had thought about but was "interesting mild speculation" on what GRRM could be cooking up.....I haven't checked, but at this point I'm sure it's the subject of thousands of hours of online rabid fan speculation. Ahhh television....
Edit 2: Oh....you've read the books? What, you forgot about the entire Aegon plotline?
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Last edited by ShortcutToMoncton; Jun 1, 2015 at 08:00 AM.
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Saw tonight's episode: Hardhome.
Yes.
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This. This was the episode we've been waiting for, for FIVE YEARS.
And there are two episodes left.
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Am I right in thinking that we never learned what happened to Ned's brother? I forget his name but way back in season one he went out on patrol north of the wall and never came back if I recall correctly.
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He disappeared. That was the motivation for the ill-fated excursion with Mormont - they were trying to find out what had happened.
Maybe we'll see him with blue eyes. Or not.
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Varlian steel, is obviously more powerful and important than previously thought. Now that it can be forged again (like obsidian, dragons are apparently an important part of its making) I have a feeling we're eventually going to see a lot more of it, once someone figures out the process.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Varlian steel, is obviously more powerful and important than previously thought. Now that it can be forged again (like obsidian, dragons are apparently an important part of its making) I have a feeling we're eventually going to see a lot more of it, once someone figures out the process.
I'm not sure where it was revealed that it can be forged again. I thought it was some complicated magic process which involved dragons. It could be that is where they are going, but has the forging ability yet been confirmed at all?
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Two swords were reforged from Ned Stark's last season.
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Yeah but that was just re-using existing steel - it was Valyrian in the first place - and they didn't create any new V-steel. (Brienne and Tommen have those two now I believe? Hahaha....I choose Brienne in that head to head.) And that was only because Ned's sword was a monstrous size in the first place.
Even if they go around melting down all the existing huge swords and making smaller ones, it won't take them very far. I don`t know off the top of my head, but there probably are less than a dozen Valyrian steel swords referenced in the books - some of them lost/missing.
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Originally Posted by Teronzhul
Two swords were reforged from Ned Stark's last season.
Yup. Ned Stark had the Stark ancestral blade, the one he used to execute a criminal in the first season, and Tywin Lannister had it reforged into two smaller blades. He gave one to Jamie, who gave it to Brienne. The other was given to Joffrey, and is now presumably in Tommen's hands.
I'm not sure if it was previously clear that Valyrian steel will kill the White Walkers, or if that is a fan theory. Anyway, fire kills the White Walkers, and so does obsidian (volcanic glass), so there is a certain amount of logic in that dragon-forged steel working.
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Last edited by P; Jun 2, 2015 at 01:35 PM.
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The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
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Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep
Am I right in thinking that we never learned what happened to Ned's brother? I forget his name but way back in season one he went out on patrol north of the wall and never came back if I recall correctly.
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
He disappeared. That was the motivation for the ill-fated excursion with Mormont - they were trying to find out what had happened.
Maybe we'll see him with blue eyes. Or not.
Benjen Stark was First Ranger. Jon has since promoted a new First Ranger, so Benjen is presumed dead. Two of his men were found dead, but they were burned before Maester Aemon could examine them. Something about one of them attacking the Lord Commander in his quarters ...
So we don't know the cause of death. If they were ambushed by Walkers, or by Wildlings and later found by the Walkers.
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Even if they go around melting down all the existing huge swords and making smaller ones, it won't take them very far. I don`t know off the top of my head, but there probably are less than a dozen Valyrian steel swords referenced in the books - some of them lost/missing.
By name, yes, but there are quite a few. Most of the noble families have one - the Lannisters are special in that they did not, before Tywin appropriated Ned's. They're rare, but not THAT rare - a quick google shows that there are apparently at least 200 in the Westeros alone.
There are also shorter blades of Valyrian steel - the dagger used in the assassination attempt on Bran, and subsequently traced to Littlefinger and then Tyrion (thereby setting up his capture, and therefore the outbreak of the war) was Valyrian steel.
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The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
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Also someone should trademark V-Steel......it's a marketing wet dream
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Originally Posted by P
By name, yes, but there are quite a few. Most of the noble families have one - the Lannisters are special in that they did not, before Tywin appropriated Ned's. They're rare, but not THAT rare - a quick google shows that there are apparently at least 200 in the Westeros alone.
There are also shorter blades of Valyrian steel - the dagger used in the assassination attempt on Bran, and subsequently traced to Littlefinger and then Tyrion (thereby setting up his capture, and therefore the outbreak of the war) was Valyrian steel.
Yeah the Lannisters lost their sword. A great shame to Tywin of course.
I figured Sam Tarly might find out the secret to making new steel in his old books. TBD perhaps. Anyway, it's possible there's a couple hundred, but only a couple are ever referenced in the books. And that's not very many spread out through a continent of course.
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Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
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Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
Also someone should trademark V-Steel......it's a marketing wet dream
Valyrian Steel
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The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Varlian steel, is obviously more powerful and important than previously thought. Now that it can be forged again (like obsidian, dragons are apparently an important part of its making) I have a feeling we're eventually going to see a lot more of it, once someone figures out the process.
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton
I'm not sure where it was revealed that it can be forged again. I thought it was some complicated magic process which involved dragons. It could be that is where they are going, but has the forging ability yet been confirmed at all?
Ahhhh sorry, upon re-reading I see that I was just rephrasing what you had said. Damn spoilers are inconvenient! I say we just make this thread spoiler-free and get on with it, because at this point the show is spoiling the books, not the other way 'round!
It's actually quite nice, but I would love to see what GRRM's sales for the final books will be like. Will they plummet again now that we have the answers? Hahaha.
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Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
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Surprised no-one else has bumped this one yet.
Holy shit.
I know its been a while since they killed someone "important", but I can't help but wonder if the arrival of Lady M and that resurrection trick that whatshisface can pull might come into play. Otherwise all the mystery around his lineage is a pointless dead end. Unless he has maternal half-siblings. Or maybe its just the steel after all.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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I feel like this was a major blueball of a season. I should start binge-watching this show instead of waiting week to week.
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