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Shut it down! III: The Search for Bipartisan Agreement
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Yes, it's that time of year again. I create this thread and the shutdown is averted. Sincerely hoping to go 3 for 3.
Points of contention this year: Funding the wall and funding the ACA.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Public
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Games Meister
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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**** it, rolling the dice on Trump doing some brinkmanship, since he didn't get collect any scalps on the AHCA
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Mulvaney says White House has offered Dems $1 in Obamacare funds for $1 in wall funds in Bloomberg Live interview
Do I need to point out the flaw here?
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Trump seems to have backed off border wall funding so things looking much better atm
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Aide: White House threatens to cut off ObamaCare payments on Pelosi call | TheHill
"Mulvaney indicated that while the Trump administration had continued the CSR payments, they had not yet decided whether they would make the May payment," the aide said. "Mulvaney made clear that, absent Congressional action, the judge's order would stand and the administration would cease making payments.”
Canceling the payments to insurers, known as cost-sharing reductions (CSRs), would cause chaos in the insurance market.
Ryan rejects ObamaCare subsidies in funding bill | TheHill
Democratic negotiators have agreed to support $15 billion in additional military funding — half of President Trump’s original $30 billion request — but only if Republicans agree to use the omnibus spending package to fund ObamaCare insurer subsides, according to sources familiar with the talks.
Democrats are the worst. Give an increase of 15 billion to our gigantic military in return for payments everyone should support so as to not destabilize our ****ing healthcare industry.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
so as to not destabilize our ****ing healthcare industry.
Way, WAY, too ****ing late.
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"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Looking good now. Sounds like a stopgap CR will be passed to cover the extra time it takes to tidy up the legit funding bill.
Increasing defense spending is still a joke, however.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Crisis likely averted... for 4 months? I don't understand our government
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Crisis likely averted... for 4 months? I don't understand our government
They like our money. A lot of it.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I'm not sure I follow what that has to do with 4 months.
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Professional Poster
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I'm not sure I follow what that has to do with 4 months.
Because in 4 months they will likely reconvene to find ways to take more.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I don't get it; Does more money become available in 4 months or is this some generic complaint about government spending?
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Now Trump is in favor of a shutdown.
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Professional Poster
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I don't get it; Does more money become available in 4 months or is this some generic complaint about government spending?
It isn't just the money collected today.
It's also money due tomorrow in the form of deficits and adding to the federal debt. We could argue about the short term benefits, but the chickens have to come home to roost somehow one day.
And yes, my complaint about the whole budget dog and pony show/brinksmanship is general.
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Professional Poster
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I can almost hear "See You in September" playing in the background.
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shutting down the national parks in summer would lose a lot of revenue, ya know.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi
Now Trump is in favor of a shutdown.
Only because the Democrats thought they won. ****ing insane
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by Snow-i
It isn't just the money collected today.
It's also money due tomorrow in the form of deficits and adding to the federal debt. We could argue about the short term benefits, but the chickens have to come home to roost somehow one day.
And yes, my complaint about the whole budget dog and pony show/brinksmanship is general.
Lord, save the deficit proselytization for another thread.
While I agree politicians will trot out the results for their own benefit, I still think the results have a real impact on people.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by BadKosh
I can almost hear "See You in September" playing in the background.
I'm sure I'll be bumping this thread then.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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It's passed the House with 103 nay GOP votes.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Lord, save the deficit proselytization for another thread.
It was asked and answered
While I agree politicians will trot out the results for their own benefit, I still think the results have a real impact on people.
This is precisely my point.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I must admit, your point has gone over my head.
Also: signed by Trump. See everyone in Sept/Oct
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Professional Poster
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I must admit, your point has gone over my head.
My point is that it is a circus, by design. The difference is that the flaming hoops are made of our money and politicians jumping through them get high off the fumes. Meanwhile, that money could have been used by it's original owners to go to college, raise their kids, buy a house, or even just buy a beer after a long day at work. Every one of those dollars comes directly from the pocket of an American citizen, and politicians are staggeringly careless with it and treat it as their own to effect their agendas, many times self-serving in one form or another.
I'm not advocating against taxes or government spending in general, both of which I recognize as critical functions of our society. I'm advocating for a return to rationality in the budget process. A pipe dream I know.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by Snow-i
My point is that it is a circus, by design.
I'll disagree. It's a circus because of elections. Each side's constituents now screams bloody murder about certain budgets. It's no coincidence budgets under Obama ended up being just CRs. It punted on making hard decisions – and concessions.
Originally Posted by Snow-i
Meanwhile, that money could have been used by it's original owners to go to college, raise their kids, buy a house, or even just buy a beer after a long day at work. Every one of those dollars comes directly from the pocket of an American citizen, and politicians are staggeringly careless with it and treat it as their own to effect their agendas, many times self-serving in one form or another.
This is the proselytization I'm talking about.
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Professional Poster
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I'll disagree. It's a circus because of elections. Each side's constituents now screams bloody murder about certain budgets. It's no coincidence budgets under Obama ended up being just CRs. It punted on making hard decisions – and concessions.
I agree that it's because of elections, which is exactly why the design is to be a circus to capitalize on outrage for clicks and votes.
This is the proselytization I'm talking about.
Forgive me. I don't really want to have to wait for "Shut it down! IV: The voyage home" to articulate my thoughts.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by Snow-i
I agree that it's because of elections, which is exactly why the design is to be a circus to capitalize on outrage for clicks and votes.
Yeah, no. The circus is a side-effect of current polarization.
Ok, weird thought. You're arguing circus by "Intelligent Design" and I'm arguing circus by "Adaptation."
Originally Posted by Snow-i
Forgive me. I don't really want to have to wait for "Shut it down! IV: The voyage home" to articulate my thoughts.
Here's a crazy thought: Start a thread about taxes and budgets if you want to share your philosophy. I'll even participate!
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Bumping for another exciting month in DC.
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Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
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I was just reading about this. On account of twice wasting time on major attacks on the ACA, Congress has a lot piled up. Which must be addressed in only a few months.
• Raise borrowing limit, because hey, we still can't live within our means.
• Hash out a budget.
• Optional: tax reform to help the 1%.
• Trump is threatening a shutdown if he doesn't get money for the Wall. No word on money for the Night's Watch.
• Possible DACA repeal, to go after the kids.
• Make supporting payments for the ACA. Previous payments ran out at the end of August.
• Optional: another attack on the ACA.
• Allocate emergency funds for Houston/Harvey.
• Possible funding for things related to North Korea. But this might go in the black budget.
I'll bet against the Wall funds. Trump makes all kinds of threats, but he'll be needing money for any "fire and fury". Illegal immigrants sneaking across the border do not hold press conferences to threaten Guam and call Trump's bluffs. So the Wall funds will get punted to next year.
I'm worried about the supporting ACA payments, which help the lowest income participants. Along with blowing time on another general ACA attack.
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Last edited by reader50; Sep 5, 2017 at 02:05 PM.
Reason: forgot tax reform)
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Moderator
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I heard he was going to delay funding for harvey until he got his way on the wall, or was it taxes... hard to keep up.
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Administrator
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I'd forgotten the tax reform item. Edited into the list.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Democrats want a three month extension of the debt limit, which is incredibly evil. They know that a clean hike without hurricane aid would likely require Ryan to get their votes.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Clinically Insane
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Some people that voted for Trump wanted to throw a monkey wrench into our political machinery. Well, they are about to see what happens with a totally dysfunctional and broken government.
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Clinically Insane
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I realize that things would not be rosy with Hillary Clinton in office, but at least she wouldn't be way over her head politically doing really stupid things like messing around with DACA, pointless walls, not distancing herself from the KKK, etc. This is the last thing we need right now. I'll take her emails and political competency over what we are about to see.
Sorry to bomb/troll this thread with this little potshot, but I hope the takeaway is our valuing competency, knowledge, wisdom, and a qualified political team going forward.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Democrats want a three month extension of the debt limit, which is incredibly evil. They know that a clean hike without hurricane aid would likely require Ryan to get their votes.
Reports Trump agreed to this leaving me incredibly confused
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Administrator
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Originally Posted by besson3c
... but I hope the takeaway is our valuing competency, knowledge, wisdom, and a qualified political team going forward.
I'll grant Hillary 1, maybe 2 of those four items. Admittedly Trump is closer to 0 than 1. Still not a strong endorsement.
Apparently Hillary is releasing a new book. She finally came clean and admitted dirty tricks to lock Bernie out, er, claims Bernie entered the race to disrupt the Democratic party.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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I think Dems are going to hold the debt ceiling and government funding hostage for DACA in December.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by reader50
I'll grant Hillary 1, maybe 2 of those four items. Admittedly Trump is closer to 0 than 1. Still not a strong endorsement.
Apparently Hillary is releasing a new book. She finally came clean and admitted dirty tricks to lock Bernie out, er, claims Bernie entered the race to disrupt the Democratic party.
He didn't?
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Administrator
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What the heck is a "three month extension to the debt limit"? Do they mean increasing it, then it falls back in three months? Are we expecting a windfall profits tax lump in three months, which will happily cover everything?
If corporations with pending foreign profits all decided to repatriate the money and pay their taxes like the rest of us, it could happen. But I don't see the big corporations doing any such thing. This sounds like pushing the problem one quarter into the future, in exchange for a guaranteed hard shutdown if a permanent limit adjustment isn't made at that time.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by reader50
This sounds like pushing the problem one quarter into the future, in exchange for a guaranteed hard shutdown if a permanent limit adjustment isn't made at that time.
Yes that's why I'm confused Trump says he's on board.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Anyway until this ****er is passed anything can happen. If not I'll be bumping this thread in three months.
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Administrator
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OK, it's not as bad as I thought. A "three month extension to the debt limit" doesn't fall back down in December. This is politics-speak, it just means a small(ish) bump to the debt ceiling. Enough to cover an estimated 3 more months of deficit spending. Those who object are mostly pulling for a bigger bump to get past the mid-term elections. Almost no one is trying to balance the budget with cuts coupled to higher taxes on the 1%.
I suppose I'm in favor of the temporary bump. Keep their feet in the fire whenever they want to up the deficit limit. Spending us into bankruptcy shouldn't be convenient.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by reader50
I suppose I'm in favor of the temporary bump. Keep their feet in the fire whenever they want to up the deficit limit. Spending us into bankruptcy shouldn't be convenient.
I mean, the dog and pony show of default has its downsides too. This is the dumbest political football to keep alive, as each side holds it hostage when they're in the minority.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Originally Posted by reader50
I'll grant Hillary 1, maybe 2 of those four items. Admittedly Trump is closer to 0 than 1. Still not a strong endorsement.
Competency: she is politically clumsy (she obviously lost for this reason), but when it comes down to understanding laws and nuances, I think it is fair to say that her experience as Secretary of State and all of her other experiences would make her as qualified as anybody. She may be lousy at execution, we will have to speculate on this, but a vote is speculative too. I would say that speculating competency is reasonably rational. Do you agree?
Knowledge: same sort of deal. I don't remember hearing her say something that was obviously factually incorrect. She's very disingenuous and spin-prone, but I'm talking about talking out of her ass like Trump or Rick Perry might when talking about climate change.
Wisdom: this is also speculative, but I meant this in the sense of her having experience. Maybe this is the weakest point.
A qualified political team: it's hard to see her wanting to hire people like Betsy Devos, this NASA guy, putting Chelsea Clinton in charge of important stuff, Ben Carson, etc.
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Originally Posted by reader50
She finally came clean and admitted dirty tricks to lock Bernie out, er, claims Bernie entered the race to disrupt the Democratic party.
That's an apt description (apart from the word “disrupt”), but I just happen to think that this was perfectly legitimate for Bernie to do so. That's how democracies are supposed to work.
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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by OreoCookie
That's an apt description (apart from the word “disrupt”), but I just happen to think that this was perfectly legitimate for Bernie to do so. That's how democracies are supposed to work.
I don't think it's how democracies are supposed to work but it seems the most logical option when yours has been rigged into a two party system.
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