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OldManMac · Jun 17, 2002, 01:29 PM

Rodney Lain, longtime Mac writer, took his own life this weekend, according to <a href="http://www.macobserver.com." target="_blank">www.macobserver.com.</a>

What a tragedy! Depression is a real disease, and not something you can just "will" your way out of!

Rodney, you will be sorely missed! May you find the peace you're looking for!

KaptainKaya · Jun 17, 2002, 02:28 PM

I agree. And to think the other day we were all asking if blacks/african-americans used macs. He will definitely be missed.

Timo · Jun 17, 2002, 02:46 PM

I used to read his columns.

R I P

Mac-arthur · Jun 17, 2002, 10:03 PM

Damn Rodney is gone.

His columns were always interesting, erudite, and thought provoking.

It's a great loss to all of us Mac fans to lose a writer of his wit and talent.

Depression has got to be the biggest under reported killer of human beings ever.

I had dark times in my life where I almost followed Rodney's road off this cruel earth...

I was one of the lucky ones who found a way out of the dark.

I hope Rodney finds some peace in the next world if there is one.

Lord knows he shall be missed in this one.

Arthur

::maroma:: · Jun 18, 2002, 12:35 AM

Wow. That was indeed unexpected. I enjoyed his columns very much. He had a nice style. He'll definitely be missed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

gattur · Jun 18, 2002, 02:06 AM

R.I.P. iBrother

A sad emoticon would be nice!

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 18, 2002, 02:13 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gattur:
R.I.P. iBrother

A sad emoticon would be nice!<hr /></blockquote>Will this one do?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

gattur · Jun 18, 2002, 02:14 AM

perfect

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 18, 2002, 02:10 PM

I don't feel sorry for people who kill themselves. He abandoned his wife, he hurt plenty of people, he took the easy way out. He is a coward and I am not going to put on some "boo who, you will be missed" act because that is what people expect me to say.

Timo · Jun 18, 2002, 02:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I don't feel sorry for people who kill themselves. He abandoned his wife, he hurt plenty of people, he took the easy way out. He is a coward and I am not going to put on some "boo who, you will be missed" act because that is what people expect me to say.<hr /></blockquote>Lookin' forward to hearing the eulogies at your funeral.

CaseCom · Jun 18, 2002, 02:24 PM

It's natural (and probably healthy) to be angry at someone who commits suicide. But that doesn't mean he won't be missed.

<a href="http://www.mymac.com/robertson/6.17.02.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.mymac.com/robertson/6.17.02.shtml</a>

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 18, 2002, 04:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Timo:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I don't feel sorry for people who kill themselves. He abandoned his wife, he hurt plenty of people, he took the easy way out. He is a coward and I am not going to put on some "boo who, you will be missed" act because that is what people expect me to say.<hr /></blockquote>Lookin' forward to hearing the eulogies at your funeral.<hr /></blockquote>You're not invited and it won't be for a while as I am not cowardly enough to kill myself.

Julie · Jun 18, 2002, 07:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I don't feel sorry for people who kill themselves. He abandoned his wife, he hurt plenty of people, he took the easy way out. He is a coward and I am not going to put on some "boo who, you will be missed" act because that is what people expect me to say.<hr /></blockquote>Some time ago I read an insight reflecting the sentiment that when somebody says "I don't believe that" it often means "I haven't experienced that." The person is unable to get out of their life view in order to consider the perspective of any others.

I wouldn't expect you to say that you will miss Rodney when it's clear that you won't. Ironically, Rodney would probably have applauded you for your statement. He was brave like that - not afraid of swimming against the flow and lauding of anyone who was willing to do the same. But I would urge you to consider that you have never been where Rodney was. Depression is a scientifically verifiable disease. The chemical make-up of a depressed person is different from someone who is not depressed. His perspective was completely different than your own, and IMO you should be cautious before you throw around labels like "coward" when you haven't been where he was.

I don't think you should feel sorry for Rodney and I don't think he would expect you to. He's in a better place. You're right that it's those left behind who have to deal with the pain. Please consider that some of Rodney's friends, in a search for solace, seek out places like this and comments such as yours do nothing to bring any peace to the living who cared for the man.

Yoda's Erotic Piggyback · Jun 18, 2002, 07:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Julie:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
[qb] But I would urge you to consider that you have never been where Rodney was. Depression is a scientifically verifiable disease. The chemical make-up of a depressed person is different from someone who is not depressed. His perspective was completely different than your own, and IMO you should be cautious before you throw around labels like "coward" when you haven't been where he was.<hr /></blockquote>How do you know that?

Macintosh · Jun 18, 2002, 07:38 PM

Its weird, being a mac fan for a couple of years now (i am 16) I never heard of the man. I feel bad though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

OldManMac · Jun 18, 2002, 07:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I don't feel sorry for people who kill themselves. He abandoned his wife, he hurt plenty of people, he took the easy way out. He is a coward and I am not going to put on some "boo who, you will be missed" act because that is what people expect me to say.<hr /></blockquote>People who suffer from extreme depression don't think logically, therefore they don't think of the hurt they may cause others. The thoughts that dominate their minds are often that they have no reason to live, and they see no future reason for existence! They also often believe that others around them would actually be glad to be rid of them (that's how strong their self-loathing is), so it makes sense to them to commit suicide! Life isn't quite as simple as you would like to believe it is!

Julie · Jun 18, 2002, 08:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Yoda's Erotic Piggyback:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Julie:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
[qb] But I would urge you to consider that you have never been where Rodney was. Depression is a scientifically verifiable disease. The chemical make-up of a depressed person is different from someone who is not depressed. His perspective was completely different than your own, and IMO you should be cautious before you throw around labels like "coward" when you haven't been where he was.<hr /></blockquote>How do you know that?<hr /></blockquote>How do I know what? That depression is scientifically verifiable? That this person hasn't been where Rodney was?

If you don't believe that depression is scientifically verifiable then we don't have much ground for continued discussion on that subject. No one here has been where Rodney was. How do I know? Because we're all still alive.

I hate to use such overused terms such as "battled" - but dealing with depression really is a battle. I have experienced it and know plenty of others who have as well. I had a friend who told me once that he only wished he had the courage to kill himself. I can only imagine the place where Rodney was that drove him to this. Even though I have been suicidal in the past I don't consider that I was where he was - I'm still alive. But the experience has taught me compassion enough so that I would never attack someone who takes their life as a result of depression.

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 19, 2002, 01:11 AM

Actually Julie what I was talking about is how do you know I was not in his position?

CaseCom · Jun 19, 2002, 02:18 AM

FYI Julie: K-Mart and Yoda are the same person.

Julie · Jun 19, 2002, 09:04 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
Actually Julie what I was talking about is how do you know I was not in his position?<hr /></blockquote>I tried to explain that in my above post. You're still alive.

xi_hyperon · Jun 19, 2002, 10:28 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KarlG:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I don't feel sorry for people who kill themselves. He abandoned his wife, he hurt plenty of people, he took the easy way out. He is a coward and I am not going to put on some "boo who, you will be missed" act because that is what people expect me to say.<hr /></blockquote>People who suffer from extreme depression don't think logically, therefore they don't think of the hurt they may cause others. The thoughts that dominate their minds are often that they have no reason to live, and they see no future reason for existence! They also often believe that others around them would actually be glad to be rid of them (that's how strong their self-loathing is), so it makes sense to them to commit suicide! Life isn't quite as simple as you would like to believe it is!<hr /></blockquote>You hit the nail squarely on the head. Been there, luckily, didn't do it, about 10 years ago. Logic gets shrouded by the fog of an emotional bottoming-out. I honestly felt that checking out not only would put myself out of misery, but relieve everyone else too. Sounds wacky and it is. Severe depression can incapacitate one's ability to reason, even with the most basic of premises, such as the fact that those around you need you and care about you. In short, it's a torturous state to be in, and "sucks" doesn't begin to cover it.

Mac-arthur · Jun 19, 2002, 10:30 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I don't feel sorry for people who kill themselves. He abandoned his wife, he hurt plenty of people, he took the easy way out. He is a coward and I am not going to put on some "boo who, you will be missed" act because that is what people expect me to say.<hr /></blockquote>Well Immortal,

I feel for his wife. She has got to be going through some major pain right now and Rodney is totally to blame for that.

However as far as being a coward and taking the easy way out: Who is more of a coward, someone who kills themselves or someone who feels it necessary to insult a dead man on a web board.

So you don't like suicide, who does?

I'd have to say most of the people who feel the way you do have never really experienced the depths of depression that can lead a smart, talented, and loved person to the point of despair where they can only see one way out.

But heck this is an open forum and everyone has a right to post their opinion no matter how cowardly and insensitive it is.

Arthur

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 19, 2002, 01:14 PM

I guess we can't look forward to any more writing like this one: "The Mac is the 'Nigger' of the Computer Industry"

<a href="http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html" target="_blank">http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html</a>

philzilla · Jun 19, 2002, 01:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I guess we can't look forward to any more writing like this one: "The Mac is the 'Nigger' of the Computer Industry"

<a href="http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html" target="_blank">http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html</a><hr /></blockquote>i don't recall many times when we've agreed, but i think i have to on this point. i can't say i'll miss someone who writes things like that

Timo · Jun 19, 2002, 01:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I guess we can't look forward to any more writing like this one: "The Mac is the 'Nigger' of the Computer Industry"

<a href="http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html" target="_blank">http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html</a><hr /></blockquote>Seems to me Lain's op-ed is more substantial than your six thousand posts put together.

The Jackalope · Jun 19, 2002, 01:38 PM

He was a pretty damn good writer. I like the fact that he wasn't afraid to say things that not all us macheads liked (he thought the iPod was crap). Yes, even the aforementioned article on Macs as Niggers.

Suicide is complicated. It's also everyone's right to take their own life. Too bad though.

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 19, 2002, 01:52 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Timo:
Seems to me Lain's op-ed is more substantial than your six thousand posts put together.<hr /></blockquote>..or your poor attempt to knock me at every opportunity you can get.

[ 06-19-2002, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Immortal K-Mart Employee ]

Julie · Jun 19, 2002, 08:01 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I guess we can't look forward to any more writing like this one: "The Mac is the 'Nigger' of the Computer Industry"

<a href="http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html" target="_blank">http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html</a><hr /></blockquote>I know I shouldn't ask, but what was your problem with that column? (Or do you know what it's like to be black, too, and therefore object to his use of the term "nigger"?)

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 19, 2002, 08:30 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Julie:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I guess we can't look forward to any more writing like this one: "The Mac is the 'Nigger' of the Computer Industry"

<a href="http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html" target="_blank">http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html</a><hr /></blockquote>I know I shouldn't ask, but what was your problem with that column? (Or do you know what it's like to be black, too, and therefore object to his use of the term "nigger"?)<hr /></blockquote>Is is plain old stupid and attention getting.

Julie · Jun 19, 2002, 11:31 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Julie:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
I guess we can't look forward to any more writing like this one: "The Mac is the 'Nigger' of the Computer Industry"

<a href="http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html" target="_blank">http://www.ibrotha.com/themac/columns/macnigger.html</a><hr /></blockquote>I know I shouldn't ask, but what was your problem with that column? (Or do you know what it's like to be black, too, and therefore object to his use of the term "nigger"?)<hr /></blockquote>Is is plain old stupid and attention getting.<hr /></blockquote>Did you know Rodney at all?

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 20, 2002, 01:00 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Julie:
[QUOTE]Did you know Rodney at all?<hr /></blockquote>Not personally but I thought that everything he wrote was compleatly stupid and pointless.

I am sure that some people think the same about me but I am not shooting myself in the head and having my wife come home and find my brains all over the wall.

Juan_Cabanela · Jun 20, 2002, 11:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
You're not invited and it won't be for a while as I am not cowardly enough to kill myself.<hr /></blockquote>As a personal friend of Rodney Lain, go bugger yourself. What the hell makes you think depression is "voluntary." He didn't want to do this. His depression (which unlike what you probably think, is not just a mental illness, but a physical one tracable to chemical imbalances in the brain) made him believe that his only viable option to ending his pain was suicide. It was just as voluntary as a heart attack or stroke. Rodney was in a deep depression. He had come close to suicide several times in the past, but pulled himself back from the brink. This time he failed.

You don't know the circumstances, so do not suppose he was being selfish. You weren't his friend. I was. At his funeral today, I saw literally hundreds of people there. Many people stood to speak for Rodney. They didn't mince words. Most were ****ed at Rodney for what he had done... not for shooting himself, but for not reaching out. But everyone understood that in the end, it was a disease that claimed him, not some voluntary choice.

Rodney was many things, but he was not a coward. He may have been misguided, with all the energy he spent hiding his disease from his friends...but he was no coward. If you read any of his writings, you know he didn't shy away from a fight at all. It's people like you, with you're mightier than thou attitudes that really are the cowards. Yeah, it takes really bravery to kick a man with a disease when it took his life. Oh yeah, you're the model of bravery.

Juan Cabanela

Juan_Cabanela · Jun 20, 2002, 11:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Julie:
[QUOTE]Did you know Rodney at all?<hr /></blockquote>Not personally but I thought that everything he wrote was compleatly stupid and pointless.

I am sure that some people think the same about me but I am not shooting myself in the head and having my wife come home and find my brains all over the wall.<hr /></blockquote>Gee, you don't even know what it looked like. Guess what, no brains all over the wall (I know, I've been in the house). Go bugger yourself. Just because you are jealous that your only way of achieving any sense of fame is by spewing flamebait from your mouth whereas he wrote articles that were interesting. I agree that he courted controversy with his writing (some would call that the sign of a good columnist, some wouldn't, I won't dispute that)...but in the words of Apple's famous ad:

"You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them, disbelieve them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can�t do is ignore them. Because they change things."

You (unlike Rodney) will never change a bloody thing.

Juan

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 20, 2002, 11:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Juan_Cabanela:
[QUOTE]]Gee, you don't even know what it looked like. Guess what, no brains all over the wall (I know, I've been in the house). Go bugger yourself. Just because you are jealous that your only way of achieving any sense of fame is by spewing flamebait from your mouth whereas he wrote articles that were interesting.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry, your insults do nothing. My web site had more fame then his back in 1996 in the Mac community and I didn't shoot myself because of it. I also know what he looked like before he shot himself.

<img src="http://www.ibrotha.com/images_new/header.gif" alt=" - " />

Juan_Cabanela · Jun 21, 2002, 12:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
Sorry, your insults do nothing. My web site had more fame then his back in 1996 in the Mac community and I didn't shoot myself because of it. I also know what he looked like before he shot himself.<hr /></blockquote>He didn't shoot himself because of fame you twit, he did so because of a disease. A verified disease, diaganosed in Rodney's case (I have a friend who is a researcher at the Mayo Clinic, I asked, the chemical imbalances, mostly related to seritonin, are verified, so bugger off your little "deprssion is not a disease" angle).

As for my previous message, I was contesting your description of the scene of Rodney's death. "Brains on the wall" is not an accurate description of what the scene looked like.

But more to the point, it's easy to act big and kick a dead man. You aren't changing things, and since I never heard of "immortal K-mart's" website, I can easily assume you are still someone who never changed things whereas Rodney did.

Juan Cabanela

Kestral · Jun 21, 2002, 06:16 PM

[/QUOTE]Is is plain old stupid and attention getting.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Tell that to John Lennon, he started it by writing the song "Woman is the Nigger of the World".

FormerLurker · Jun 22, 2002, 03:31 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mac-arthur:

Immortal:
As far as being a coward and taking the easy way out: Who is more of a coward, someone who kills themselves or someone who feels it necessary to insult a dead man on a web board.

[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>That says it all. On behalf of all Rodney's friends and family, I sincerely hope that one of Immortal's family members or close friends blows their fukkin head off someday real soon now, and we have the opportunity to insult someone we know nothing about (for "being cowardly") after their suicide is announced on these boards!!

Or not...

...unlike Immortal, I'm pretty much of a kind person, and definitely don't wish for the death of anyone who does not deserve it. But this is exactly what YOU sound like, Mr. K-Mart Attitude Dude - pretty rough, huh?

And then you try to defend your obnoxious insensitivity by citing ONE article where the word "nigger" is used purely for shock value? Lame, dude... very, very LAME!

Back ON topic, I sometimes did not enjoy his column, but he was always one of the best in making you think. Possibly the most talented writer to ever devote himself to Mac journalism. I will miss his work, and definitely find the Mac world to be a bleaker place in his sudden absence.

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 22, 2002, 03:36 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FormerLurker:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mac-arthur:

Immortal:
As far as being a coward and taking the easy way out: Who is more of a coward, someone who kills themselves or someone who feels it necessary to insult a dead man on a web board.

<hr /></blockquote>That says it all. On behalf of all Rodney's friends and family, I sincerely hope that one of Immortal's family members or close friends blows their fukkin head off someday real soon now, and we have the opportunity to insult someone we know nothing about (for "being cowardly") after their suicide is announced on these boards!!

Or not...

...unlike Immortal, I'm pretty much of a kind person, and definitely don't wish for the death of anyone who does not deserve it. But this is exactly what YOU sound like, Mr. K-Mart Attitude Dude - pretty rough, huh?

And then you try to defend your obnoxious insensitivity by citing ONE article where the word "nigger" is used purely for shock value? Lame, dude... very, very LAME!

Back ON topic, I sometimes did not enjoy his column, but he was always one of the best in making you think. Possibly the most talented writer to ever devote himself to Mac journalism. I will miss his work, and definitely find the Mac world to be a bleaker place in his sudden absence.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Ha ha. Boo hoo. You do realize that you are acting in the same manner that you are TRYING to chastise me in.

Try again.

FormerLurker · Jun 22, 2002, 03:46 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
Ha ha. Boo hoo. You do realize that you are acting in the same manner that you are TRYING to chastise me in.

Try again.

<hr /></blockquote>OOOH, are you rubber and I'm glue?

Yep, that's about the maturity we're dealing with here - no surpise.

Try again? Nope, sorry, that's all the flamebait I can stomach for one night.

I might feel like trying if you would actually try addressing your idiotic *******ishness instead of just continuing to display it, but yeah, like THAT is gonna happen!!

Keep diggin that hole, man, it's just a few more feet to China....

Back to lurking!!

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 22, 2002, 03:49 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FormerLurker:

Keep diggin that hole, man, it's just a few more feet to China....<hr /></blockquote>Ooooh goodie. Can you also show me the way to Africa so I can see these "niggers/Mac users"?

Mac-arthur · Jun 22, 2002, 07:53 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FormerLurker:

Keep diggin that hole, man, it's just a few more feet to China....<hr /></blockquote>Ooooh goodie. Can you also show me the way to Africa so I can see these "niggers/Mac users"?<hr /></blockquote>I see your bravery extends from insulting the dead to starting a flame war.

No wonder you despise cowardice so much being a person of such fortitude that they dare to cast aspersions from the safety and anonymity of their keyboard.

Booyaa! You are one great big macho manly jackass IKME.

I still miss Rodney and even the stink of your malformed, thoughtless, and superfluous opinion doesn't change that.

Rest in peace, Rodney!

Unfortunately for every intelligent and thoughtful writer like you who goes away there are a million morons starting flame wars to take your place.

Oh and I'm quite aware of the irony of this post so don't even go there.

[ 06-22-2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Mac-arthur ]

Immortal K-Mart Employee · Jun 22, 2002, 08:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mac-arthur:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FormerLurker:

Keep diggin that hole, man, it's just a few more feet to China....<hr /></blockquote>Ooooh goodie. Can you also show me the way to Africa so I can see these "niggers/Mac users"?<hr /></blockquote>I see you bravery extends from insulting the dead to starting a flame war.

Oh and I'm quite aware of the irony of this post so don't even go there.

<hr /></blockquote>Glad you figured it out