[zilmer]

Where is it? What is it? Anybody?

(Explanation later.)

[flatcatch]

I have no idea. The only reason I've ever heard of it was because back in college my friend and I found some *.ee (Estonia) domain names in our web logs and though it was cool.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: flatcatch ]

[7Macfreak]

try this

one of my cousin lives there, and i know its 'winter' there for about 9 months at least.

[zilmer]

Hehe.. Pretty good. Anybody else? What do you know about it?

(Explanations later as I promised...)

[Developer]

The Estonia is a ferry on the ground of the baltic sea.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by zilmer:
<STRONG>Where is it? What is it? Anybody?

(Explanation later.)</STRONG>

Do you mean the country in the Baltics that was occupied by the Soviet Union from 1940 to (I think) 1991? The top one of the three, right? I seem to recall that the Baltic republics are the only countries conveniently arranged in alphabetical order.

Now, why the pop quiz?

[�]

It's on the seafloor. indeed. It beat the worldrecored deepseadiving[/LIST][/LIST]

[zilmer]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
<STRONG>
Now, why the pop quiz?</STRONG>

Hehe, right you are - it's a Baltic country, the top one of three Baltic States. And it was a the largest ferry as well (M/S Estonia) that sunk in 1994.

I am from Estonia. There is a huge debate currently here over the new logo + branding created for the country. Some samples:

http://www.epl.ee/g/pics/picl5JSDS.jpg
http://www.epl.ee/g/pics/picMe94nt.jpg
http://www.epl.ee/g/pics/picZ6PBpm.jpg
http://www.epl.ee/g/pics/picU3OcD4.jpg

They've spent a fortune (app. million dollars for that - and, yes it is a lot of money for a nation that consists only of 1.3 million people ) and it is supposed to help to promote the country and everything.

That's why I was asking - I just wanted to know out of curiosity what associations does the name bring to you. It just looks to me that no branding will improve the fact that a usual American, Australian or even a Brit has absolutely no freakin' idea about whether Estonia is a plant that grows in Afghanistan or a country in the Balkans...

P.S. It's not quite winter here for 9 months. I look outside and it's damn +25 C right now.

[nonhuman]

To be quite honest, the first thing that sprung to mind was Elbonia, the fictional Eastern European country from Dilbert with a chief export of mud. However, I do know the general location of Estonia, though not much about the country itself.

[zilmer]

Originally posted by nonhuman:
<STRONG>To be quite honest, the first thing that sprung to mind was Elbonia, the fictional Eastern European country from Dilbert with a chief export of mud. However, I do know the general location of Estonia, though not much about the country itself.</STRONG>

Hehe, that's a funny association. They probably have derived the name from Estonia I think

Other than this - we are a small and friendly country

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Humm Estonia... Tere! I'll be over there in a little over 2 weeks. My wife has friends and family there as she's from Finland.

We're flying to Helsinki on the 23rd, going up to Northern Finland for a bit to see family/friends, then back down and across to Estonia for a week or so- looking forward to seeing Tallinn, Voru and some other places. My wife's family owns a summer home somewhere in a more rural area of Estonia that we'll be staying at for a couple days.

All in all, I'll be over there for a month.

That ferry better not sink again, I'll be on it at some point.

Just a question, are they as nuts over saunas in Estonia as they are in Finland? My wife is enjoying teasing the hell out of me with the idea of having to get in one naked with a whole bunch of strangers- including some beautiful Nordic women other than my wife- what a pleasantly goofy tradition-not that I have a problem with this per se (what guy in his right mind would complain about this?) --it's just that-- well--y'know--suppose a guy were to have a 'reaction' of some sort in these conditions? People over there may get co-ed naked together all the time, but this American boy ain't all that used to that! Also, getting OUT of the thing and jumping immediately into cold water? Sounds insane.

I've been to Helsinki before, but never to northern Finland where all this sauna business seems to go on, nor over to Estonia before.

I'm a little bummed that we won't be able to get over to St. Petersburg Russia as I had wanted to originally- didn't get the needed visa stuff in time. No biggie. We'll probably pop up to Sweden breifly as well.

Anyway, looking forward to the trip, and looking forward to finding out about this Estonia place!

[7Macfreak]

Originally posted by zilmer:
<STRONG>
*snip

That's why I was asking - I just wanted to know out of curiosity what associations does the name bring to you. It just looks to me that no branding will improve the fact that a usual American, Australian or even a Brit has absolutely no freakin' idea about whether Estonia is a plant that grows in Afghanistan or a country in the Balkans...

P.S. It's not quite winter here for 9 months. I look outside and it's damn +25 C right now. </STRONG>

no offense, but i think basically, most americans have a poor knowledge of geography. most of them wouldnt know where/what bombay is.

[zilmer]

Humm Estonia... Tere! I'll be over there in a little over 2 weeks. My wife has friends and family there as she's from Finland.

Whoa, nice to hear that. Tere!

We're flying to Helsinki on the 23rd, going up to Northern Finland for a bit to see family/friends, then back down and across to Estonia for a week or so- looking forward to seeing Tallinn, Voru and some other places. My wife's family owns a summer home somewhere in a more rural area of Estonia that we'll be staying at for a couple days.

Oh I bet you'll love V�ru and these places - the southern part is very nice. You'll hit Tallinn at a pretty busy time, there's this European Song Competition going on and the place will be flooded with tourists. But I think it'll be fun. If you need any suggestions for cool places to hang out, tell me what are looking for... hehe

That ferry better not sink again, I'll be on it at some point.

Hehe, I hope something like this will never happen again. Are you coming with a ferry or with one of these speed-boat things that cross the bay in an hour? These are very safe and comfy actually.

Just a question, are they as nuts over saunas in Estonia as they are in Finland? My wife is enjoying teasing the hell out of me with the idea of having to get in one naked with a whole bunch of strangers- including some beautiful Nordic women other than my wife- what a pleasantly goofy tradition-not that I have a problem with this per se (what guy in his right mind would complain about this?) --it's just that-- well--y'know--suppose a guy were to have a 'reaction' of some sort in these conditions? People over there may get co-ed naked together all the time, but this American boy ain't all that used to that! Also, getting OUT of the thing and jumping immediately into cold water? Sounds insane.

HAHAHAHAH
Don't be afraid - nobody forces you to sauna with local BEAUTIFUL girls. But blame it on yourself afterwards.

OK, just kidding - actually it's more of Finnish tradition to get all the guys and girlies together in the sauna. In Estonia usually men and women do go separately. But there's no law of course. I think nobody expects you to do that if you feel uncomfy, but trust me - once you are in the sauna it doesn't feel so weird at all!

And jumping into the cold lake straight from the sauna - oh man, you'll love it. I know, I know... sounds like something really freaky, but it's absolutely awesome!

I've been to Helsinki before, but never to northern Finland where all this sauna business seems to go on, nor over to Estonia before.

I suggest you try it in both countries - it can be quite different experience.

I'm a little bummed that we won't be able to get over to St. Petersburg Russia as I had wanted to originally- didn't get the needed visa stuff in time. No biggie. We'll probably pop up to Sweden breifly as well.

My friend just came from St. Petersburg some time ago. I haven't been there myself (only to Moscow), but he said it absolutely rocks. Absolutely beautiful with extreme contrast between the rich and poor people. Also damn expensive.

Anyway, looking forward to the trip, and looking forward to finding out about this Estonia place!

Well, do drop me a line at [email protected] , I can suggest you some useful stuff before you come here.

[kardinal.cmg]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
<STRONG>Humm Estonia... Tere! I'll be over there in a little over 2 weeks. My Just a question, are they as nuts over saunas in Estonia as they are in Finland? My wife is enjoying teasing the hell out of me with the idea of having to get in one naked with a whole bunch of strangers- including some beautiful Nordic women other than my wife- what a pleasantly goofy tradition-not that I have a problem with this per se (what guy in his right mind would complain about this?) --it's just that-- well--y'know--suppose a guy were to have a 'reaction' of some sort in these conditions? People over there may get co-ed naked together all the time, but this American boy ain't all that used to that! Also, getting OUT of the thing and jumping immediately into cold water? Sounds insane.</STRONG>

Try it. It's seriously refreshing, and since you're going there in the summer, the water's pretty warm too. (Yes, some people actually do it in the winter as well. They bore a hole in the ice, go to the sauna, and literally run for the water. Never done it myself, though.) Oh, in case you didn't figure out yet, I'm actually Finnish. Helsinki's a nice place in the summer, I'll go back there myself in another month or so.

Oh, and I thought getting naked in an enclosed space with pretty blondes was something most men dreamed of.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by zilmer:
<STRONG>You'll hit Tallinn at a pretty busy time, there's this European Song Competition going on and the place will be flooded with tourists.</STRONG>

European Song Competition?

Then the place will be flooded with really bad 70's outfits/hairstyles.

[zilmer]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
<STRONG>

European Song Competition?

Then the place will be flooded with really bad 70's outfits/hairstyles. </STRONG>

Tell me about
I am not exactly a fan of this thing.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by 7Macfreak:
<STRONG>most of them wouldnt know where/what bombay is.</STRONG>

on the underside of a B-52.

[seb2]

Originally posted by 7Macfreak:
<STRONG>

no offense, but i think basically, most americans have a poor knowledge of geography. most of them wouldnt know where/what bombay is.</STRONG>

...or why mumbai was called "bombay" for so long in the first place...

funny to hear that there are other people who remember the order of the three baltic states by sorting them alphabetically. i've been to latvia and lithuania in '89. nice place, beautiful beaches, extremely friedly people.

[DBursey]

I give you Estonia.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by zilmer:
<STRONG>

I just wanted to know out of curiosity what associations does the name bring to you. It just looks to me that no branding will improve the fact that a usual American, Australian or even a Brit has absolutely no freakin' idea about whether Estonia is a plant that grows in Afghanistan or a country in the Balkans...

</STRONG>

Estonia was much better known here in the States during the Cold War when the snuffed-out independence of the Baltic republics was something of a cause celebre. It was particularly in the news when the Soviet Empire started to crumble and the troops started cracking down, and of course during the time when you won your independence again.

A lot of the people on this board are a little young to really remember that time so I'm not surprised at your findings. I doubt anyone mentions it in high school classes anymore. That's just the fate of an ordinary small country in a peaceful corner of the world. Count your blessings.

[malvolio]

Being of Finnish descent, I am also familiar with Estonia. After all, they are the only European country with a language closely related to Finnish (Hungarian is distantly related).
I'm guessing that "tere" = "terve".

[Timo]

::raises hand high in air::
Me! Me! I know where Estonia is!

I've spent some time in Tallinn (a beautiful city) and Parnu, which also has its charms. On the whole I really like what I saw in Estonia, though I hardly went anywhere.

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
--it's just that-- well--y'know--suppose a guy were to have a 'reaction' of some sort in these conditions? People over there may get co-ed naked together all the time, but this American boy ain't all that used to that! Also, getting OUT of the thing and jumping immediately into cold water? Sounds insane.

Vinnis wife, eh? Nice work.

I lived in Finland once for awhile, and I did see some of the co-ed sauna stuff. When I lived there though that was uncommon: mostly sauna was segregated by gender. But as for any "reactions": it's hard to explain, but "reactions" don't happen like you think they might. Keep a little bit of an open mind, and you might be surprised .

Anyway, the sauna --&gt; water --&gt; sauna --&gt; water / wash --&gt; beer and sausages routine is great. I miss that a lot.

Sounds like a great trip.

[cube-dude]

True, Estonia is a beautiful and friendly place. I had the good fortune to explore Tallinn two Summers ago on a trip through Scandinavia and St. Petersburg.

Thanks, zilmer, for reminding us all what a wonderful country it is!

[zilmer]

Woooww!!! I was wrong assuming people don't know about Estonia! So nice to hear you people have good memories of my country! Thanks! And come for a visit (once again)...

PS. Oh and yes... "Terve!" = "Tere!" (that's "Hi!" in Finnish and Estonian)

[daimoni]

.

[agentz]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
<STRONG>

European Song Competition?

Then the place will be flooded with really bad 70's outfits/hairstyles. </STRONG>

You mean the Eurovision Song Contest then!

Basically, a bunch of singers/bands from loads of different countries get together once a year and wail a song that has been voted to represent their nation, then after they've all been sung, loads more people vote for which was best, then after much hugging and kissing the whole shooting match moves on to the country that the winner came from for the next years competition.

Mind you, last time I checked a fair few of the countries involved aren't even in Europe.

I'm sure this institution of European culture reached a new highpoint a few years ago when an Israeli transexual called Dana International won...

[zilmer]

YAK!

Do listen to some decent funky Estonian music instead

[kardinal.cmg]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
<STRONG>European Song Competition?</STRONG>

Trust me mate, you do not want to know... The Eurovision song contest is the lousiest excuse for playing cheesy and crap music all over the flippin' region. I've never heard a song there that would actually be liked by anyone I know.

If you ever get a chance to see it, don't.

[kardinal.cmg]

Originally posted by malvolio:
<STRONG>Being of Finnish descent, I am also familiar with Estonia. After all, they are the only European country with a language closely related to Finnish (Hungarian is distantly related).
I'm guessing that "tere" = "terve". </STRONG>

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure of the historical relationship with the two languages, but they are very alike. However, you'd be surprised at how the same word can mean very different things in Finnish and Estonian...

When I've been at home in Helsinki, I've sometimes seen one of the Estionian channels when flicking through the channels. I didn't understand everything that was going on, but you do get a general impression of what's being talked about.

[theolein]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
<STRONG>

on the underside of a B-52.</STRONG>

War's ein schlechter Tag?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by kardinal.cmg:
<STRONG>

Trust me mate, you do not want to know... The Eurovision song contest is the lousiest excuse for playing cheesy and crap music all over the flippin' region. I've never heard a song there that would actually be liked by anyone I know.

If you ever get a chance to see it, don't.</STRONG>

It gave us Abba, too. A crime that will forever besmirch it, in my book.

[zilmer]

Originally posted by kardinal.cmg:
<STRONG>

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure of the historical relationship with the two languages, but they are very alike. However, you'd be surprised at how the same word can mean very different things in Finnish and Estonian...

When I've been at home in Helsinki, I've sometimes seen one of the Estionian channels when flicking through the channels. I didn't understand everything that was going on, but you do get a general impression of what's being talked about.</STRONG>

And this year unfortunately we have to suffer and organize this s***!

[kardinal.cmg]

Originally posted by zilmer:
<STRONG>

And this year unfortunately we have to suffer and organize this s***! </STRONG>

The Eurovision crap? I feel for you, mate.

We Finns always seem to suck at the Eurovision contests, but personally I think the worse we do the better... stays out of the news!

[zilmer]

Originally posted by kardinal.cmg:
<STRONG>

The Eurovision crap? I feel for you, mate.

We Finns always seem to suck at the Eurovision contests, but personally I think the worse we do the better... stays out of the news! </STRONG>

Yes, the Eurovision crap

Last year they somehow managed to win the thing. I sure as hell hope the same thing won't happen this year. The whole thing is just awful!

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Hey Zilmer, so funny you mention that "Eurovision crap" as you put it! Last year I had to figure out how to set up my wife's computer so she could watch some of it on Real video or Windows Media, whichever it was. She was interested because I guess the act from Estonia won... man was it pretty awful from my viewpoint.

Yikes! So we'll be in Tallinn just in time for that eh? And lots of tourists? Can't say as I'd be thrilled about either of those things normally, but the fact that I'll be in such a cool place more than makes up for it. I�ve seen some pictures of the old part of Tallinn and it looks so interesting!

On the way over to Estonia we'll be taking the ferry actually, not the speedboats. I think the trip across will be enjoyable by itself. On the way back to Helsinki when we fly out though, we'll be taking the faster boat probably for matters of time.


As for saunas.. my wife INSISTS we're doing the co-ed thing, no wussing out with the separated stuff! Also according to her, the same thing is likely to happen in Estonia where we are going. She and her friends there have a huge party lined up that they've been planning for months. According to her and some of her friends I've talked to about it, if everyone doesn't end up a little drunk and in the sauna naked, it just won't be right!

Timo, yeah you're right, I need to keep an open mind. One thing I've always loved on my trips to Europe... people know how to have a good time! I realize that nudity isn't as sexual to Europeans as we Americans tend to make it, probably cause we have it drummed into our heads since birth or something. I dunno! The main thing I'm surprised about with all this is that I thought surely my wife was kidding me about all this... she's not!

Zilmer, thanks I'll take you up on your offer and drop ya a line about what to do while we're over there. We have a pretty open schedule beyond a few things that are pre-planned, just going to go wherever and see whatever as the trip progresses.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by theolein:
<STRONG>

War's ein schlechter Tag? </STRONG>

no, just a *bad* pun.

(where/what is bomb-bay? - on underside of a B-52)

BTW - I was amazed: never did I see you post on /., and the first time I see you over there, you're marked with a five-point score!

woah.

-spheric*

P.S.: What's a twack? Sumtin a twain wuns on.